993 Autox Setup Advice Wanted
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From: Milford, DE
993 Autox Setup Advice Wanted
Here's a list of my mods and preliminary setup for SCCA Solo II. Any and all advice is greatly appreciated. Weapon is a 1997 993C2 with limited slip and ABD. Please realize that this is all I can change within the rules.
* Front double adjustable de-gassed Koni Sport shocks (valved for US M030 springs). Initial settings: 0 bump, 1/2 way full stiff rebound.
* Front hollow Weltmeister front bar (RS copy). Initial setting: full soft.
* 1/4" front wheel spacers.
* 8x10 5-spoke light alloy wheels with 245/35-18 Hoosier S04's.
* Front alignment: Max camber available and 1/16 toe-out.
* Rear M030 shocks modified by Koni into Koni Sport versions with single adjustment (valved for US M030 springs). Initial setting: Full stiff rebound.
* Rear M030 bar.
* Rear alignment: 1 degree negative camber and 1/16 toe-in.
* 10x18 5-spoke light alloys with 285/30-18 Hoosier S04's.
* Robin's RSR mufflers.
* Two CG-Locks to keep me in place.
Help me go fast!
Thanks.
* Front double adjustable de-gassed Koni Sport shocks (valved for US M030 springs). Initial settings: 0 bump, 1/2 way full stiff rebound.
* Front hollow Weltmeister front bar (RS copy). Initial setting: full soft.
* 1/4" front wheel spacers.
* 8x10 5-spoke light alloy wheels with 245/35-18 Hoosier S04's.
* Front alignment: Max camber available and 1/16 toe-out.
* Rear M030 shocks modified by Koni into Koni Sport versions with single adjustment (valved for US M030 springs). Initial setting: Full stiff rebound.
* Rear M030 bar.
* Rear alignment: 1 degree negative camber and 1/16 toe-in.
* 10x18 5-spoke light alloys with 285/30-18 Hoosier S04's.
* Robin's RSR mufflers.
* Two CG-Locks to keep me in place.
Help me go fast!
Thanks.
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paul,
realizing you want to stay in A stock
can you do RS pulley upgrade? i actually think it makes a good difference and is a cheap upgrade...
also dump lots and lots of weight.
i can't think of anything else that would keep you in A stock....
cheers,
boris
realizing you want to stay in A stock
can you do RS pulley upgrade? i actually think it makes a good difference and is a cheap upgrade...
also dump lots and lots of weight.
i can't think of anything else that would keep you in A stock....
cheers,
boris
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How much weight can be dumped in stock? If I remember correctly, you can't really remove interior pieces?
Paul, not being specifically familiar with 993 at autocross yet, I think you're close to maxed out in stock, based on your description.
Paul, not being specifically familiar with 993 at autocross yet, I think you're close to maxed out in stock, based on your description.
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From: Milford, DE
Boris:
For SCCA Stock Classes the car must be run as delivered from the factory with a few exceptions such as shocks, front bar, etc. Any other mods must have been an available option installed at the factory for U.S. delivery, i.e. M030 suspension.
No removal of anything is allowed to save weight.
Strict rules, but a good class for the mechanically challenged.
I should probably post this over at the Autocross Forum also.
Thanks.
For SCCA Stock Classes the car must be run as delivered from the factory with a few exceptions such as shocks, front bar, etc. Any other mods must have been an available option installed at the factory for U.S. delivery, i.e. M030 suspension.
No removal of anything is allowed to save weight.
Strict rules, but a good class for the mechanically challenged.
I should probably post this over at the Autocross Forum also.
Thanks.
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paul,
under that logic you could remove A/C. As for the pulley setup the RS was delivered from the factory with that setup. I'm not sure a RS qualifies as the same car? would a RS be considered A Stock?
Cheers,
Boris
under that logic you could remove A/C. As for the pulley setup the RS was delivered from the factory with that setup. I'm not sure a RS qualifies as the same car? would a RS be considered A Stock?
Cheers,
Boris
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From: Tyler, TX
AStock are you sure the M030 rear bar is allowed? I thought in stock only parts that were available as delivered in the US were allowed. If you could only get the part after delivery, even from a dealer, that part is not allowed in stock.
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Generally speaking, if the cars are listed _on the same line_ in SCCA rulebook you can interchange parts. Two big exceptions:
1. If the part was not available in US, you can't use it.
2. If the part was only availabe as a part of some package, you have to have _the whole package_ retrofitted, or nothing.
On the local level you might want to talk to fellow competitors and they will probably wave you if you don't meet the letter of the rules, but meet the spirit. At regionals you might not be as lucky. At Nationals you _will_ be protested, from what I understand.
1. If the part was not available in US, you can't use it.
2. If the part was only availabe as a part of some package, you have to have _the whole package_ retrofitted, or nothing.
On the local level you might want to talk to fellow competitors and they will probably wave you if you don't meet the letter of the rules, but meet the spirit. At regionals you might not be as lucky. At Nationals you _will_ be protested, from what I understand.
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From: Milford, DE
Guys,
Rules read: A Stock - Porsche 911 (993 chassis), non-turbo ('95-'98)
"Except for modifications authorized below, Stock Category cars must be run as specified by the factory with only standard equipment as defined by the rules. This requirement refers not only to individual parts, but to combinations thereof which would have been ordered together on a specific car." Etc.
Therefore, if you could not order a 1997 993C2 without air, then you cannot remove it. If the RS pulley was not an option from the factory, then no go.
You could order the M030 package. My particular 993 did not come with it, so I have to retrofit the whole package, springs and bars. However, since the front bar is free, I can install the Weltmeister instead.
Stock is definitely restrictive on the mods, and since P-car owners like to modify, is probably a good reason why you do not see many 911's in SCCA Solo II, as even the other catagories are somehat narrowly defined.
Rules read: A Stock - Porsche 911 (993 chassis), non-turbo ('95-'98)
"Except for modifications authorized below, Stock Category cars must be run as specified by the factory with only standard equipment as defined by the rules. This requirement refers not only to individual parts, but to combinations thereof which would have been ordered together on a specific car." Etc.
Therefore, if you could not order a 1997 993C2 without air, then you cannot remove it. If the RS pulley was not an option from the factory, then no go.
You could order the M030 package. My particular 993 did not come with it, so I have to retrofit the whole package, springs and bars. However, since the front bar is free, I can install the Weltmeister instead.
Stock is definitely restrictive on the mods, and since P-car owners like to modify, is probably a good reason why you do not see many 911's in SCCA Solo II, as even the other catagories are somehat narrowly defined.
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Paul,
a couple more ideas...
1) you could do a rear seat delete. I believe that saves some weight and that could be ordered that way from the factory. option code m419
2) if you don't already have a factory limited slip, i believe that is a big help in autox. option code m244
3) you can move back to 16" wheels, which would lower your drive ratio. option code: m397
4) reduced gas tank. option code: m544
5) the non-power assist steering rack. option code M656
6) you could go to m033 "lowered" springs. this depends on whether you read the rules as ordered in the US.
7) delete radio. option code: m441
8) i couldn't find the option for the normal door panels - but if you have hi-fi option you could go to the simple door panels.
Is that what you were looking for - or is that too extreme?
Cheers,
Boris
a couple more ideas...
1) you could do a rear seat delete. I believe that saves some weight and that could be ordered that way from the factory. option code m419
2) if you don't already have a factory limited slip, i believe that is a big help in autox. option code m244
3) you can move back to 16" wheels, which would lower your drive ratio. option code: m397
4) reduced gas tank. option code: m544
5) the non-power assist steering rack. option code M656
6) you could go to m033 "lowered" springs. this depends on whether you read the rules as ordered in the US.
7) delete radio. option code: m441
8) i couldn't find the option for the normal door panels - but if you have hi-fi option you could go to the simple door panels.
Is that what you were looking for - or is that too extreme?
Cheers,
Boris
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From: Milford, DE
Thanks Boris. You know your stuff..
Item Nos. 1, 4, 5, 7, & 8 are a little too extreme for me at this point.
#6 I'll stay away from.
My car was optioned with a factory limited slip and I purchased 16-inch wheels to run "rain" tires on. Based on the input from guys with Boxster's the 18's are definitely faster.
Any thoughts about the Kinematic setting? I'm assuming it would be smart to stick with the factory setting.
Thanks.
Item Nos. 1, 4, 5, 7, & 8 are a little too extreme for me at this point.
#6 I'll stay away from.
My car was optioned with a factory limited slip and I purchased 16-inch wheels to run "rain" tires on. Based on the input from guys with Boxster's the 18's are definitely faster.
Any thoughts about the Kinematic setting? I'm assuming it would be smart to stick with the factory setting.
Thanks.
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paul,
on the 16's vs. the 18's. i've pondered this question quite a bit. on the 16's you gain extra torque with the lower gearing. on the 18's you gain cornering , wheel width and unsprung weight. it does seem that it is a series of trade offs. from the local pca folks it appears that some of the most competitive run on 16's. bottom line - i'm not sure.
as for the kinematic toe. i'll look up how mine is set. mine was set by jeff reitmeyer (sp?) who is a SCCA national autox champ.
Cheers,
Boris
on the 16's vs. the 18's. i've pondered this question quite a bit. on the 16's you gain extra torque with the lower gearing. on the 18's you gain cornering , wheel width and unsprung weight. it does seem that it is a series of trade offs. from the local pca folks it appears that some of the most competitive run on 16's. bottom line - i'm not sure.
as for the kinematic toe. i'll look up how mine is set. mine was set by jeff reitmeyer (sp?) who is a SCCA national autox champ.
Cheers,
Boris
