M Fig

I've been a Porsche guy for years but I'm thinking about getting another 993 for a daily driver. I haven't owned a 993 since before the market for them blew up. I sold my 96 C4S with 60k miles for $40,000. Anyway, my questions are...is the SAI CEL thing still a real issue? If it is, should I look for a 1995 model? I might be way off but I thought I remembered that the 95 doesn't have that issue? Any other advice that I should know? I was thinking a higher mileage (75K plus) just because I plan to put 10k to 15K per year on it for probably at least a few years...might come out better on the depreciation side of things rather than a lower mileage car...any advice would be appreciated.

mdude

I'm not aware the 993 market ever 'blew up', unless you mean a spike in price.
If you fetched only $40k for your C4S, I guess that was the price point in the mid-to-late 2000's.

I posted this price guidance on another chat (coupe only, manual):

• more common color (guards red, arctic silver, black, etc.), no story, low mileage (<40k) WB manual is around $85k-$95k; and a higher mileage one (>80k) can be had for around low $70'ish. Really high mileage (>100k) is in the low $60'ish.
• NB is about 1/3 less
• consider paying 20% more for a rare color (RB, Vesuvio...).

As for SAI, the only real way to find out is a PPI checking for compression. Strangely I've bought two 993s. Both times the PPIs were done by air-cooled shops that have a good rep on this forum. On both occasions, the mechanics (2 diff shops) recommended against a compression/leak down. One went so far as saying he has seen enough of these, and just by listening to the engine noise he can tell if I should pay more for a compression. Said something along the lines of "I don't mind charging you more, but I'm telling you the engine sounds good and don't waste your $$$". I took his advice and never had an issue.

95 is OBD I, which really only means it doesn't lit up the CEI, very different than saying there is no carbon deposit.

Note SAI is not the only costly item. Steering rack and clutch replacements aren't exactly cheap either.

But unless you hit a really lousy streak, even relatively bad specimens can be sorted with $10-15k. Then you can enjoy for years doing only regular maintenance.

The cars don't depreciate much. The best is when it's time for you to sell, that pile of maintenance receipts is a source of comfort for many to pay up.

M Fig

Yeah, when I was referring to blowing up, I was referring to the pricing spike...and you are spot on with your dates...I would guess 2008 - 2010...maybe a bit later. Anyway, I appreciate the advice. I'd love to find a Riviera Blue or Mexico Blue car but they seem so rare that I'm considering buying a nice example in a different color and wrapping it (although I have never done this before so not sure it will turn out how I want it to).

How does the compression indicate a possible SAI issue? And isn't the CEL the only issue...like the carbon deposit doesn't really mess the engine up at all? Again, it's been 10 years since I researched this stuff so I sorta remember the issue but can't remember all the details.

thanks again tho...

Foxman

Unless you live in CA or CT where it can blow an inspection, the SAI issue is largely meaningless as you surmise. Some folks just pull the light out. I just covered it with electricians tape. But excessive carbon deposits in some cases may also be an early indicator of other engine issues lurking.

Churchill

It doesn't. Common misconception. Only way to know is from oil consumption. At this point, most 993's either have had the valve guides done (which cures the problem -- SAI CEL is a symptom, but not the real problem) or they weren't a car that had this problem in the first place (it originated at the factory with poorly sized guides). However, if you find a car with 60-70K miles and guides haven't been done, prepare to have to address it in the future. Typically needs attention around that mileage.

Overall at this point, I think condition and maintenance history are more important than mileage. Personally I'd rather buy a 100K mile 993 that had been maintained nicely and had all the typical problems addressed than a 60K mile car with deferred maintenance. Mine has 150K and is just as reliable today as when I bought it 13 years ago, right around when you sold yours, at the bottom of the market.

pp000830

I believe the concern about worn valve guides is overblown.
Postings related to the subject:
Oil Consumption
Air Injectors


Andy

tstafford

My two cents - A buddy of mine is actively looking for a 993 wide body - what I would call a premium driver - 25K to 40K miles, near mint condition w/ the intention of putting 5-6K/year on it. I've been pretty surprised at how expensive the cars are right now. We're seeing prices (at least on those type of cars) being ~10% higher than they were when I bought mine a 15 months ago. I thought the 993 market was overheated when I bought but it seems to have ticked up more. Amazing.

aircooledpurist

About a year ago I overpaid for a ‘95 with 17k miles. It was in great shape, Southern California car, one older owner, in the color I wanted most... polar silver. It had a full black leather interior. It had just had a ton of Maintanance done, brakes, shocks, belts, hoses, etc with receipts totaling over 11k.

I’m not handy, so the peace of mind knowing a had a like new car coming made paying the premium worth it to me.

Because it is a ‘95, my mechanic gave the nod to the SW chip. Huge difference in the liveliness of the car. I now have 21,000 miles. I don’t daily the car, but I drive it anytime I want. I’m not saving it.... I’m enjoying it.

Honestly it has been perfect. Drives like a new car.... well, that’s not true. It drives better than a new car. Makes my BMW’s feel like appliances.

Dont be afraid of a 95.

Tlaloc75

97 or 98 can also be flashed to ignore the SAI code - so that it acts like a 95 in that regard.

dantonio

I think we had a peak in prices around 4-5 years ago, followed by a relative lull in their climb. Lots of high asking prices but seems like decreased sell through rate. Probably lots of speculators (dealers, etc) trying to flip cars that didn't warrant high asking prices. Uneducated buyers paying too much because they didn't want to miss out on the fun. ("Last chance to buy an air-cooled 911 before it's too late!")

Seems like a bit of steam has been let out of market and we're back to a more balanced scenario where supply and demand are more closely matched. Buyers are more cautious and less crazed to buy anything and everything. I agree that prices have climbed a bit since that lull. To me it indicates that there never was an "air-cooled bubble." Demand is just more steady and realistic now.

I think a lot of people are already priced out of the 993 market and are going for older 911s instead, or 996s.

Gbos1

I will never understand the 996 lure. Other than the GT2 996 would pass onto a 997 GT3. Air Cooled is Air Cooled ... 996 is water cooler two different animals. Either you want an Air Cooled or Water Cooler... I guess because of the low prices of the 996 is an entrant into the 911 and value play for many. Values have been going up and some think you will break even or gain some equity in the future on the 996.

dantonio

Agree that it's driven by the value. I'm certain that 993/964s will always be stratified above 996s in price (based on sheer numbers produced and obvious desirability factors), so conceivable if 996 prices go up air-cooled prices should be lifted by the same tide.

Also, I truly believe there are a lot of people who can easily afford new 911s who just don't find them appealing. I think this will help drive demand for the older cars, especially the water-cooled models. I think this effect will increase as we get closer to the widespread adoption of EVs, and new car buyers become reluctant to sink a pile of money into internal combustion driven cars that are soon to be obsolete and likely won't hold their value.

I think a similar subtle effect exists with the "last of the naturally aspirated" cars. Personally I'd rather have a 997 or 991.1 than a 992, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way.

These effects may be subtle now but might become real market forces in the future. Just my humble speculative musings, entirely for fun. Not trying to be a doomsday prophet here...

mdude

2 diff kinds of buyers. Those in the market for 991s and 992s are buying and driving the car now; most actually are leasing. They're not in there from a collectors' perspective (except for the GT2s and GT3s or any special releases Porsche makes [e.g. speedsters]). Even color is no longer a lure, unlike the versuvios, RBs, etc. for 993s.
Plus, all the water-cooled are made in such sheer numbers that very few if any will ever become collectibles.

PRSWILL

The SAI issue varies widely. Yes all 1996-1998 993's have the system and the valve can clog due to a number of reasons- some are bad like worn valve guides, but many of these SAI valves just accumulate crap over 20+ years of driving and clog up throwing the code. If the car's not burning oil, then your valve guides are probably good. When my CEL went off throwing the SAI code, I enlisted a PCA friend and we did the work ourselves. The valve was totally plugged, but the channels were clear. I ran 2 cans of solvent through the system and there was no clogging. When I pulled the heat exchangers, the and inspected the valves, the ceramic was still white around the valve and there was ZERO carbon build up. My car doesn't burn any oil so I had hoped for this.
Anyway, yes it's an issue- and a compression check can possibly indicate wear, but oil consumption is the key- and of course making sure that the oil levels have been properly maintained. Too much oil is bad. Good luck!

NeinNeinThree

How do you get it flashed? Is it a handheld you can buy or through a 3rd party repair facility?