Bob Dennis

2ndof2,

I'm with you on your decision... no records, repaint, 16" wheels, 45K maint approaching, shocks, tires, brakes....and who knows what else. This is not a pristine example, and the expected costs of these items should be factored in to your offer price, thus $34K was too high imho.

I just ran the Edmunds TMV on my own car (now with 51K) and it came in at $36,000 prv party... This assumes outstanding condition, stock (i.e. PSS9's not factored in.) I'd guess this is a little on the high side for a stock 993, but not much. Good ballpark #. I would hope to get about that with the mods I've added and would expect in the $33-34K range without the mods. My car needs nothing (except RSR's )

RRLOwen

The pricing issue is such an individual thing. Buyers are all over the board - some are very patient and find exactly the right car at exactly the right price. I think these buyers are the exception. Most have lives to live and don't want to make a career out of a car purchase.

I also don't think this board is actually representative of the average Porsche buyer. Lots of people buy them without obsessing about it - they just drive them and sell when they don't want 'em anymore. Often the sale is through a trade for something else so it's hard to know what value was put on the vehicle.

I put a lot of effort into finding a car but I have to admit that after a few months I was getting pretty eager to buy one and drive the damn thing!! It was fun for a while but then as it dragged on, it became work. I eventually took a chance on a car because of the circumstances (time and distance). I readily admit that while I didn't want to pay too much, cost wasn't the biggest factor. The deal looked OK, so I took it.

I managed to find the PO only after receiving the car. He had only put 6K on the car over a year and a half, after paying 38K for it. Traded it on a Cayenne. I got it for 32K, but that doesn't mean that he didn't get value - depends on the deal he made on the Cayenne, right?

My point is that buying with an obsession for price may in the long run turn out to be a bad decision. Look around, buy what your research and your gut tells you is a good car and get on with enjoying it.

BTW, no criticism intnded - to each his own!

ROwen

lexpilot

2nd,
I have been selling 1 or 2 vehicles every year since I retired in 99. I use autotrader "run until sold"ads to sell and cruise the net heavily for the car that I want. That allows me to cruise Oregon and California and Washington easily. I have no qualms about travelling a good distance to look at a car that seems to meet my needs after talking to the owner. California supply is much greater on the special interest cars. A great many times I've sold my cars to Washington buyers who travel to Bend to look at my car. I price my cars reasonably and generally the first looker buys the car because the guy that makes the drive is serious and my cars are always well detailed.
As a note, I have bought used special interest cars with few records from a second or 3rd owner. The only time I got burned was from a guy in Texas who claimed he had done all the maintenance and had owned the car since new. As time went by it became apparent that he probably had not done all that he said.
In early 99 I bought a 1997 LS 400 from a dealer in Kentucky sight unseen. The car arrived in good condition as he said it would and I was not disappointed. I will say that eastern US cars have more corrosion /rust issues than west coast cars. The car was good and I sold it 6 months later at a profit to a guy from Spokan the same thing 2 years agoe.
I just bought another LS 400 this week while I'm on vacation in Palm Springs. I did the same thing 2 years ago. SoCal has the best number of choices other than Florida it seems to me.
That's my story.
Anybody going to the Pomona Swap Meet on Sunday? 4000? cars for sale, lots of Porsches, so I'm told.
Good luck on your search, maybe we'll meet at Pomona.

williet1342

Never look back. Drive the **** out of it.

Speedraser

2nd,

You may well have made the right decision in passing on that car. Regarding the overall market, however:

You say that "it's the buyer who sets the real market." Well, the buyer who bought that car set the market at $34K for a '95 with 40K miles, few options, apparently no records, some paintwork (done great or not we don't know) and some issues (we don't know major or minor) from the PPI.

Regarding the $35.5K '96 with 63K:
No records would certainly give me pause, but IMO it's not an absolute fatal factor. Some cars were owned by non-enthusiasts who didn't know that records can be important. How many of your non-enthusiast friends keep the service records for their cars? Sometimes, though probably rarely, someone may have always wanted a Porsche, maintained it well, but realized it really wasn't for him. This guy may not ever have known that records could matter down the line. If the car is otherwise superb -- if you can tell it was obviously very well kept -- then I might overlook the lack of records. Of course, the PPI would be even more important than usual. Do you know that the 60K mile service wasn't already done? Also, you assume that the clutch, brakes, and shocks are shot. It seems likely that the shocks will need to be replaced if they're original, but the brakes can easily be evaluated. Do you know when they were last replaced? Maybe it was quite recently. Depending on the driver, the clutch could be completely worn out, or it might have 100,000 miles left. I have 266,000 miles on the original clutch in my Saab Turbo. These are just some of the risks of buying a used car. If this '96 is in great condition, it may well be worth $35.5, IMO.

California has lots of Porsches, but it also has lots of Porsche buyers. Lots of supply doesn't lower prices, only excess supply does. I don't think you're seeing unrealistic prices or irrational exuberance in California's market, though obviously there are examples of it.

I don't know how pristine a car you want, but you may have to be very patient and lucky to find a 40K mile '96 for $34K if you want a car in really great shape. If you don't, that's another story. Perhaps an expanded geographic search would help, as some areas seem to have more bargains than others.

I think the stories of bargains are skewing the impression of the overall market. Those bargains exist, but they're the exceptions, not the rule.