Beezr

I had a PPI done at a Porsche dealer near Denver - I'm in Seattle. Nothing major turned up (needs 30K service, alignment, tires, brake fluid flush, airbag service). I'm thinking to negotiate those costs out of the purchase price and have the work done up here.

But this being my first child, I'd like some advice.

Thanks,
Eric

MelissaM

Eric,

I have to ask: was the PPI done by the party (Porsche Dealer) that's selling you the car? If so, then I'd be a bit leery about the results.

How many miles on the car? If it's way overdue for its 30k service, then you can negotiate more than the cost of a 30k service. Or you might bail on the deal entirely.

How much can they do the service for vs. your shop in Seattle? Is the car being trailered or driven from Denver to Seattle? If driven, then how bad are the tires & alignment?

OK, I have more questions than answers, so I'll be quiet now....

-- Melissa

M. Schneider

Eric, I'm in Denver and know the dealerships and several of the Techs, that said, their strenghts and weaknesses. I'll offer a general look see of the 993 for ya, a couple of pictures - if it helps. A look see would have to happen this Thursday or next week most anytime.

A Boulder, Colorado buddy bought a site unseen 993TT from a owner in Seatle. RISKY!

All the best and welcome to the 993 Porsche sports car ownership.

88clbsport

I just had a PPI done in atlanta by performance international and they were very thorough. How did I find them? I e-mailed the board members of the PCA in Atlanta....they were great. I wanted to cover all my bases and 6 out of 7 of them suggested I use the same place.

You will find Porsche owners to be the best there are...everyone is willing to help out because "we were all ther once"

good luck!

Beezr

Thanks everyone.

The car is at a high-end, non-Porsche dealer in the Denver area. Car has been serviced regularly at <a href="http://stevinson.porschedealer.com/" target="_blank">Stevinson Imports (a Porsche dealer)</a> since they delivered the car 5 years ago. They did the PPI and only came up with tires, alignment suggested (due to tread-wear pattern), brake flush, airbag svc. It has just under 29K miles, so it's almost ready for the 30K service.

Service manager I spoke with said it's in great shape, no faults, just these minor things. Says the tires could go another 1000-1500 miles (so could address at 30K service time). He sent me a copy of the service history tonight and I will call him tomorrow to review. He wasn't pushing to do the work himself - seemed fine with giving me the run down and letting the car go.

Clutch and front brakes/rotors were replaced at about 21K miles - svc mgr attributed this to the driver...

I've seen about a dozen photos, no noticeable wear. Svc mgr says top (it's a cab) functions great, car looks great in and out. Engine is great.

However, 2 yrs ago the car spun out and hit a curb. Looks like the car was in the shop for a month (PO has many other cars per dealer). They replaced failed/damaged parts. Then there's a line a few weeks later "Stuttgart to send car over for replacement of more tweeked (sic) &lt;something&gt;... Replaced front axle cross member & LF Carrier trailing arm. Perf 4-wheel alignment.... In much better but still a little off. Stuttgart to perform final adjustments."

Did they send the car back to Germany or is this code for something?

Three weeks later: "Complaint - since the accident the top does not fit correctly." Diagnosis: "Appears LF A post has moved slightly forward." "Cust used the top and it did not want to close easily..."

There are a couple of other things. I'm going to have him explain each of the questionable items in the report on Thursday, but I have an uneasy feeling...

-Eric

Jim Richards

Hi Eric,

This accident damage sounds kind of serious to me. Unless you're getting a way-below-market price on this car, I'd move on and find a better one.

Another comment...if Stevinson Imports has been doing all of the work on the car, I'd look for a different shop to do the PPI. This is just to get a fresh set of eyes looking at the car.

Good luck with your search.

Jim
1995 Black 993 Coupe

Berkley

Eric:

I am facing the same situation you are....the PPI is being performed by the servicing dealer ( today I hope )....I've not seen the car and I am buying indirectly from a private owner...It may not be perfect, but to cover my backside....I arranged for the dealer to buy the '98 C2S if it passes a " Certification/Warranty " Inspection per Porsche AG rules. If everything is okay, I will then buy the Porsche from the dealer and it will be covered by factory warranty....full coverage and unlimited miles for one year.

Of course I am paying for the warranty and a doc. fee, but the total extra cost is nominal. Also, it took a helpful dealer from another state and when I get the car shipped home, my local dealer will go over the car from " A to Z " as to any warranty issues. Porsche warrants all parts and labor for two years....this has saved me in the past by having service records in hand for a Porsche out of Warranty....Keep those records!

If you are feeling uneasy after talking to The service manager today.....keep looking...I've found often you find the right Porsche when you least expect to...Heck I may be looking again after today....Avoid the emotional purchase even if the seller is willing to lower the price

Hope it works out and good luck to you!

Beezr

Berkeley, how did you arrange with the dealer to buy the car and pass it through to you? They were willing to do the paperwork as good will?

Thanks,
Eric

Laura

Unless you are getting a really good deal on this car, I would continuw looking for another. From what you have quoted from the service records, this car may very well have some frame damage that has not been repaired fully. Yes, it may be satifactory, but that doesn't mean it is back to what the factory delivered. It sounds like it was tweaked, an alignment does not tell you if the frame has been been repaired successfully, and unless you have proof that it was put on a frame jig and passed, I would pass.

My .02 .

Beezr

Thanks for all the advice...

I talked with the service manager today and stepped through the service history. He said the service work, other than the accident repair, was typical wear (clutch, brakes, air filter, alignment, etc.). He said for my PPI they went through the same checklist as they do for certification and that it passed, that he would certify the car if it were on their lot. (I have a call in to the sales manager to see if he would buy/re-sell to me so that I can get the official certification.)

"Stuttgart" referenced in the history is a local body shop that specializes in Porsche, MB, BMW, Jaguar. I called them and spoke to two guys. The work they did was (only) about $5000 worth including repairs to the front bumper and a few hours on the fenders, replaced front suspension cross member, left mount arm, left outer rocker. No hood damage. They did 8 hours of frame pulls, which one guy termed "a little bit" and the other characterized as "moderate" - 4 hrs sway, 4 hrs shock towers (repositioned with laser measuring system). Everything is back within factory specifications. Re-aligned within specifications. Aligned convertible top, aligned windshield frame. Re-painted front end. Accident was the car spun out and hit a curb (probably a little more with fender/bumper damage, but it wasn't a major accident).

No problems since then (March '00) except for alignment in Sept '01 - 18 months later - but that could be anything (they mentioned potholes as being a problem in Denver). Guy at body shop mentioned that once it's aligned to factory specs it should stay there, no problem, and that another alignment 12-18 months later shouldn't be a concern. Given a choice of two cars, one that had been in an accident and one that hadn't he would take the one that hadn't, of course, but that he wouldn't hesitate to buy this one.

The price is in line with NADA guidelines and other prices I've seen on the net (though there aren't too many C4 Cabs at this mileage out there).

Still in limbo,
Eric

ZCAT3

I agree with the others - I would not mess with this car. As someone who owned (and recently sold) a 993 C4 Cab, I would look for one without previous frame damage. Body damage is no big deal if fixed correctly, but the Cabs have special work done to strengthen the frame (due to the roof being removed). These cars tend to flex when cornering and I could see this causing problems in the future. Also, someone who spun out and hit a curb hard enough to require 8 hours of frame pulling and also burned through the clutch in 20K miles is not my idea of the ideal owner (who knows what else is hidden). Unless you are getting a real deal (actually even if you are), I would move on.

vjd3

And ... having just bought a certified 95 C4 two weeks ago, I have the factory checklist in front of me, and right at the top it asks if there is any evidence of repaired collision damage or paintwork (dings and touchups excluded). If the answer's yes, PCNA will not certify the car.

Vic
95 C4

Berkley

Eric

I tried to send you an email....the warranty form clearly states that if the Porsche has any signs of prior collision repair it is not eligible for the Porsche Pre-Owned Warranty Program....If a dealer was willing to ignore that, I would want verification from PCNA as to validity.

Good Luck!

Beezr

Thanks again, everyone. Based on what you've said, and the uneasy feeling in my gut, I'm going to keep looking.

Regards,
Eric