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They must have changed, a buddy of mine bought the first otc set of these and they were actually too thin, causing the al. sub frame to bottom on the steel chassis, they sent him a new set that makes it so they just clear.
I Have ERP( not Elephant, the other one) which fit the same as the Rennlines my friend used
But I don't want to cut the chassis steel as Jackals did.
Now I noticed that both the kits have spacers on the front side, the ones of the tilt kit are thicker( probably double thickness). On the rear side, where the interference problem is, there is a sort of thin spacer.
What a mess!
The good part is there is more than just one choice, other side not easy to understand which one is better for result and installation.
But I don't want to cut the chassis steel as Jackals did.
Now I noticed that both the kits have spacers on the front side, the ones of the tilt kit are thicker( probably double thickness). On the rear side, where the interference problem is, there is a sort of thin spacer.
What a mess!
The good part is there is more than just one choice, other side not easy to understand which one is better for result and installation.
Correct, you want the aluminum subframe to be just proud of the steel
There are several issues w/ the tilt kits, I'd never want one
here one issue w/ tilt, this is a typical front mount installation w/ tilt
Correct, you want the aluminum subframe to be just proud of the steel
There are several issues w/ the tilt kits, I'd never want one
here one issue w/ tilt, this is a typical front mount installation w/ tilt
if the rubber bushings originally installed on the front and back of each subframe have the same thickness (on the upper side, because in the lower side may also have different thickness, it doesn't matter), I just want to reduce that thickness, in the same way, on the front attachment and on the back, to make the solid subframe as close as possible to the chassis, without having to cut anything! This way, the original angle in longitudinal section of the subframe will remain the same as stock.
They could also produce a solid kit with a slightly thicker spacer so no interference between the subframe and the body is created, no?
here's the rennline kit with no tilt from tarett
the drop down box gives you the option to switch although the pic remains the same. https://www.tarett.com/items/993-964...-xx-detail.htm
call or email, they are great to deal with.
here's rennline's new version being installed on my street car
this was a major hassle because rennline made them a press kit.
sadly didn't think to return the product and pay up for the clubsport kit until after two of the eight were pressed in.
you're right about not wanting to drill or cut anything, so cross off the FVD subframe bushings.
This would be my very last choice: I would like them to be solid, bringing the subframe as close as possible to the chassis, but made in a way I don't have to cut anything - and definitely not tilting.
this was a major hassle because rennline made them a press kit.
sadly didn't think to return the product and pay up for the clubsport kit until after two of the eight were pressed in.
So your subframes are now the same distance as when they were wearing standard bushings, only difference is they are solid? At least they don't loosen up anymore
Last edited by nothingbutgt3; 01-29-2019 at 07:44 PM.
Just as an additional datapoint, I got the FVD clubsport (complete subframes) and have been very happy with it. This also means that I have a spare set of subframes, in case anyone needs them.
I drove a friends car with solid mounts and compared to the club sport rubber, I couldn’t tell a difference in spirited street driving. Perhaps on the track there is an advantage.
I run the Rennline mounts (non-tilt) which I've had on a while. They do raise the subframe into the chassis a little, any further and the subframe would have to be trimmed ref:- http://www.jackals-forge.com/lotus/9...suspension.htm
Mine were identical.
i carefully read every single sentence, and looked every picture, but I didn’t find where jackals describes having cut the subframe or the chassis.
what are you talking about?
If Rennline has some more old version of their subframe mounts, I am going to buy everything from them very probably, here’s the shopping list (only the subframe mounts are missing, since I am waiting for their answer)
Inside the A-arm bushing description there is written each single kit (foreword and rearword position) contains the pieces for both A-arms (left and right) and that the rubber is 25% firmer (I suppose like the stock RS rubber is).
Has anyone used their inserts? Happy about their products?
Since while doing this upgrade I am also going to install RS wheel carriers and mono all top mounts, I will need to get machined the top nut the Tosi way.
But are the rear subframe of 993 RS really different from stock ones?
Jackals says they have different camber slot, for larger camber settings...is this true?
Last edited by nothingbutgt3; 01-30-2019 at 04:28 AM.
@ @nothingbutgt3 the elephant solid subframe bushings require no modifications to the body/tub. They are machined aluminum pieces. Fit perfectly into the subframes. Pics of before and after.
As for control arm bushing I also used the elephant sport ones. Here is what they look like.
@ nothingbutgt3 the elephant solid subframe bushings require no modifications to the body/tub. They are machined aluminum pieces. Fit perfectly into the subframes. Pics of before and after.
Thank you Samurai, but my question is ( I have a few): this kit brings the subframe closer to the chassis or not? And if Yes, how much?
Then we see that the upper part of the solid bushings is cut on one side and that in a picture you made a black sign with the marker.
What are those carvings for?
Are the assembly instructions provided with the kit?
Same for the A-arm bushings: I saw that the rubber has preferential strain directions.
Are installation instructions provided?
ah here, I found this on the elephantracing website, I have to say pretty well done, because it also provides assembly instructions (which can be improved, but at least there are) - referring to Part # 2290037
All other things being equal, lowering the car changes the location of the roll center, and thus compromises the behavior of the suspension as intended from the factory. These solid bushings raise the sub-frame by 10 mm in the chassis to help compensate for a lowered vehicle.
they write it in black and white, which is good: can anyone confirm it?
The other thing I asked them via email is the function of those cuts on their kit (sidecuts of the round upper side of each half part) , almost to provide an exact mounting position, I think.
Does anyone know anything about it?
Same thing reguarding the A-arm 25% stiffer bushings provided by Rennline and ER: they seem to have a well defined assembly position, judging by the conformation of the preferential deformation directions left inside the rubber
image taken on the rennline website
I mean, do they provide assembly instructions with their products?
My intention is not to criticize anyone in particularl, but must consider that as a buyer, the more information you give, the better.
And then, furthermore, not living in the US, if I have to give something back, it becomes something really too expensive, especially as a waste of time and a loss of trust.
I think more than a potential customer desist from the purchase for these reasons: they should realize that the market is worldwide, often buyers speak different languages and it would take a minimum effort in greater clarity, photos and information, to increase sales.
That said, because of the passion we put into these upgrades and in general towards our 993s, it's a bit like watching a tennis game, at least until the purchase is perfected.
Thank you Samurai, but my question is ( I have a few): this kit brings the subframe closer to the chassis or not? And if Yes, how much?
Then we see that the upper part of the solid bushings is cut on one side and that in a picture you made a black sign with the marker.
What are those carvings for?
Are the assembly instructions provided with the kit?
Same for the A-arm bushings: I saw that the rubber has preferential strain directions.
Are installation instructions provided?
-I marked the solid subframes as I matched how the factory rubber ones were positioned. If you look at the elephant ones they are similar in shape to the factory rubber ones as the top cavity where the body/engine bay spacers go in is oval in shape like the factory ones.
-The larger forward front control arm bushings are directional. There is a small "nubbin" that sets the bushing into the side subframes so there is a specific position the bushings are pressed into the control arm. If you look at my picture you can see it.
-I would be careful who does it... from experience I had a local mechanic who "thought" he could press them in. He damaged one of my bushings and so I brought my arms to elephant and had them replace the damaged one and redo the install. From the elephant website it appears they have an installation tool which I assume installs their parts correctly...
-I marked the solid subframes as I matched how the factory rubber ones were positioned. If you look at the elephant ones they are similar in shape to the factory rubber ones as the top cavity where the body/engine bay spacers go in is oval in shape like the factory ones.
-The larger forward front control arm bushings are directional. There is a small "nubbin" that sets the bushing into the side subframes so there is a specific position the bushings are pressed into the control arm. If you look at my picture you can see it.
-I would be careful who does it... from experience I had a local mechanic who "thought" he could press them in. He damaged one of my bushings and so I brought my arms to elephant and had them replace the damaged one and redo the install. From the elephant website it appears they have an installation tool which I assume installs their parts correctly...
-Yes instructions are provided
Thank you for your answers Samurai,
but did you check if there is the evidence that this El.Racing kit really raises the subframe 10mm higher in the chassis like declared inside their installation instructions?
Yes the bushings do raise the subframe closer into the engine bay/body.
Thank you samurai_k very much, I just made the purchase
Just because I live in Italy, I have bought over the ocean only what I can not find in Europe and therefore, also following the advice of K and Tlaloc, I am going to buy the other parts from FVD to save customs duties and something about shipping, and the top hats for PSS10/RS monoball plate from Rennline.
Thank you very much! I Will post pictures once parts and tools arrive.
P.S. Included inside the ER Solid Subframe Bushing kit is there anything else? (bolts and spacers, like in the picture?)
Last edited by nothingbutgt3; 01-31-2019 at 12:15 PM.
01-29-2019, 06:20 PM
