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The ER subframe kit only includes the silver bushing and the black spacer. I bought the bolts separately from Porsche
I have contacted Elephant Racing and Rennline for technical information, and they've been very kind and open.
Scott from ER has told me the content of the kit and that I can re-use the stock bolt with their kit (probably the black spacers are there just because of that): why did you buy new bolts?
From Rennline I also got a very nice feedback: from them I bought their item #SB77 "spring hat"
In general, I must say, a nice shopping experience.
The good side of ER solid sub-frame mounts is that they go in place without any interference (not pressed in), which is great considering that the kit is going to stay in place the time strictly necessary for the yellow revenant to come back to life.
So it is nice knowing I can take them out without damaging them.
I ordered all the parts the same day, right after lunch, my time (Italy)
the first parcel to be delivered has been the one from Elephant Racing (wow, fast)!
Opened the parcel immediately, at a first sight there is something missing...so maybe the parcel would have been better to arrive tomorrow, but with the right items inside.
Easy to realize what is missing
I already wrote to their customer service, I have no rush, I am only asking myself how does it work, since I already paid the entire custom duties as in the parcel there would have been all the value/parts.
I have contacted Elephant Racing and Rennline for technical information, and they've been very kind and open.
Scott from ER has told me the content of the kit and that I can re-use the stock bolt with their kit (probably the black spacers are there just because of that): why did you buy new bolts?
From Rennline I also got a very nice feedback: from them I bought their item #SB77 "spring hat"
In general, I must say, a nice shopping experience.
The good side of ER solid sub-frame mounts is that they go in place without any interference (not pressed in), which is great considering that the kit is going to stay in place the time strictly necessary for the yellow revenant to come back to life.
So it is nice knowing I can take them out without damaging them.
The bolts are one time use stretch bolts, they should be replaced. The factory manual does a good job of marking which nits and bolts should be replaced when redoing the suspension.
Here is my list from when I did the work.
Suspension nuts and bolts
- Upper Mount Gasket for front shocks.
- 993-341-511-01 x2
- The lock nuts that are used to secure the shock top hats both front and rear suspension. 16 nuts total.
- 900-380-005-01 x16
- Nuts and Bolts for front control arm
- 999-084-445-01 x2
- 900-082-118-01 x2
- 900-082-137-01 x2
- The lock nuts and bolts that are used to attach the front shock to the wheel carrier.
- 999-067-039-01 x2
- 999-072-006-01 x2
- 993-343-156-00 x2
- The lock nuts that attach rear suspension control arms to the wheel carrier. 8 nuts total.
- 900-380-010-01 x2 (A-arm)
- 999-084-449-09 x6 (Toe arm, Camber arm, KT arm)
- The lock nuts that attach control arms to the subframe. 10 nuts total.
- 999-084-445-01 x6 (A arm trailing, camber arm, toe arm)
- 900-380-012-01 x2 (A arm leading)
- 999-507-384-09 x2 (KT arm)
- The lock nuts that attach subframe to car
- 999-084-445-01 x8 (rear attachment points)
- 900-380-008-01 x4 (forward attachment points)
- The bolts that hold subframe onto car
- 999-072-003-09 x4 (through the bushings on each side)
With the Tosi nuts I would advise using Locktite blue, they have a habit of slackening off. Be very, very careful screwing on the RS mount dust caps they can cross thread easily as Jackal and I found. To make changeing the shocks easiliy I modified the dust caps as they did on the race cars by cutting a hole in them (like taking the top off a boiled egg) and used a 944 dust cap which fits perfectly. You can now undo the strut nut without having to take the RS dus
t caps off.
With the Tosi nuts I would advise using Locktite blue, they have a habit of slackening off. Be very, very careful screwing on the RS mount dust caps they can cross thread easily as Jackal and I found.
This is something I was already imagining: but, if one doesn't put the RS mount dust caps? Is it something that compromises the integrity of the RS mounts?
To make changeing the shocks easiliy I modified the dust caps as they did on the race cars by cutting a hole in them
This is definitely a nice solutions, thank you very much for your advice!
thanks also to the advice of Tosi, that has been really helpful in his private messagges, finally the pieces are ready, just a little bit modified and galvanized.
I have got five couples of them done, two I keep for myself and at least one in reserve.
I keep the others in the garage, just in case some friend would like to do the same modification.
I will install the suspension parts by the end of the month: I'm looking forward to it and I will try to document as much as possible all the operations.
I just installed the tilt kit from Rennline and even before reading this I started having second thoughts. Why? Because the subframe is tilted in a way that the original bolts on the front side that holds the subframe mounts to the chassis are coming in at an angle different to the threaded section in the chassis to which they are supposed to go in. I hope that makes sense. This means that they don't bolt up properly and you get the weird feeling that the thread is going to give when applying clamp force. Is this really how it's supposed to be? There is no mention of this in the installation instructions. It's goes without saying that if you tilt the subframe without tilting the chassis where the subframe attaches to, the angle on the bolt will be wrong. How did they solve this for the 993 GT2? I have a turbo car (and then some) so HP-wise the tilt kit makes sense. I am still hesitant and I'm thinking just to go back to solid flat ones and call it a day. Would you go flat even for a turbo? I also looked at that picture but I can't recall if I did put the subframe mounting point underneath like that, will have to check again. Any advice much appreciated.
@nothingbutgt3
Are you happy with the Elephant Racing flat mounts? Did you end up ordering new bolts as well? If yes, which ones? What are the black spacers in the pictures meant for? Do you need them? I'm also going to lower my car to RS or lower, so I would welcome lifting the subframe 10mm closer to the chassis (without modifying it of course).
nothingbutgt3
Are you happy with the Elephant Racing flat mounts? Did you end up ordering new bolts as well? If yes, which ones? What are the black spacers in the pictures meant for? Do you need them? I'm also going to lower my car to RS or lower, so I would welcome lifting the subframe 10mm closer to the chassis (without modifying it of course).
hi V,
Onto the silver 993 I decided to go for the RS side subframes that I accidentally found with a very nice discount on FVD: carefully analyzing the subframes parts of the yellow 993 I recently started recovering, I found the pitting not critical for their resistance, but esthetically talking, really very messy and I don’t want to put on the street the car nothing less but as brand new in every single part.
That’s why, being the solid mounts more for tracking the car, I decided to put them on the yellow 993, together with the side subframes I took out from the silver 993.
Now I’ll try to answer your questions:
- installing the new rs subframes, I was using the old bolts and tightening them at the prescribed torque, one of them, broke: I think this was an evident warning that I couldn’t ignore, so I changed all the 4 bolts with brand new ones; and I am going to do the same when I’ll install the solid mounts onto the yellow 993. The bolts are the same of the standard side subframes.
- The “package” of the solid mounts together with their spacers are more or less 10mms shorter than the rubber of the standard subframe mounts, so that using them (4) the entire subframe will move closer to the chassis of this exact amount. Being the rear suspension arms not connected to the chassis (but to the auxiliary subframe),the only change is the angle of the chassis related to the subframe, but it doesn’t play any role on the way the suspension is going to work.
Only the rear coil over will have 10mms less working way.
- I am definitely going to install the kit exactly as it is, without tilting it.
the tilt kit has mainly an anti squat function, so I think it would be helpful with engines with a lot of torque, like the 993 GT2 and GT2 EVO.
The car I am going to build is naturally aspirated and with half (or even less than half) the torque that GT2 has, and besides it expresses its torque in a much milder way: for this reason I am going to avoid tilting the car as my first choice. Then I will see if it works fine.
Unfortunately I cannot give you a feedback based on a direct experience yet.
What I can tell you is that the brand new RS subframes with harder rubber shore really reduced almost to zero the rear squat and changed the accuracy and the effectiveness of the entire rear so much that it seems to be driving a 996 4S in comparison to the older components I was driving before.
so maybe the solid mounts will have at least the same effect, which was to me amazingly impressive.
hi V,
Onto the silver 993 I decided to go for the RS side subframes that I accidentally found with a very nice discount on FVD: carefully analyzing the subframes parts of the yellow 993 I recently started recovering, I found the pitting not critical for their resistance, but esthetically talking, really very messy and I don’t want to put on the street the car nothing less but as brand new in every single part.
That’s why, being the solid mounts more for tracking the car, I decided to put them on the yellow 993, together with the side subframes I took out from the silver 993.
Now I’ll try to answer your questions:
- installing the new rs subframes, I was using the old bolts and tightening them at the prescribed torque, one of them, broke: I think this was an evident warning that I couldn’t ignore, so I changed all the 4 bolts with brand new ones; and I am going to do the same when I’ll install the solid mounts onto the yellow 993. The bolts are the same of the standard side subframes.
- The “package” of the solid mounts together with their spacers are more or less 10mms shorter than the rubber of the standard subframe mounts, so that using them (4) the entire subframe will move closer to the chassis of this exact amount. Being the rear suspension arms not connected to the chassis (but to the auxiliary subframe),the only change is the angle of the chassis related to the subframe, but it doesn’t play any role on the way the suspension is going to work.
Only the rear coil over will have 10mms less working way.
- I am definitely going to install the kit exactly as it is, without tilting it.
the tilt kit has mainly an anti squat function, so I think it would be helpful with engines with a lot of torque, like the 993 GT2 and GT2 EVO.
The car I am going to build is naturally aspirated and with half (or even less than half) the torque that GT2 has, and besides it expresses its torque in a much milder way: for this reason I am going to avoid tilting the car as my first choice. Then I will see if it works fine.
Unfortunately I cannot give you a feedback based on a direct experience yet.
What I can tell you is that the brand new RS subframes with harder rubber shore really reduced almost to zero the rear squat and changed the accuracy and the effectiveness of the entire rear so much that it seems to be driving a 996 4S in comparison to the older components I was driving before.
so maybe the solid mounts will have at least the same effect, which was to me amazingly impressive.
You definitely need new bolts when removing the side frames. These are onetime use only.
How did you handle the broken bolt? Did it have to be drilled out?
How did you handle the broken bolt? Did it have to be drilled out?
Luckily it broke in the middle, so I just had to remove the side frame and turn the bolt using a parrot key.
what made me think, is the fact I was really gently tightening the bolt, using a professional torque wrench and the bolt broke in a fragile way, emitting a “Tooonk” sound, very clear, all in a moment, exactly when the key has reached the tightening torque by issuing the classic click (I am not sure I remember well but I think it was 120Nm)
How do you figure that these will last longer than these
One will need to wait for another twenty to twenty-five years before your implied conclusion that those brand new metal mounts pictured above will last longer than the originally installed rubber ones from the factory.
Who knows by then they could suffer fatigue or corrosion failure or even cause fatigue failure in the steel body mounting points. The car by then could even have become a parts supply chassis at a dismantler in, let's see, by the year 2040 or so.
The rubber mounts certainly dampen shocks and vibration a desirable feature that improves comfort and potentially protects the durability of the overall body from impact shock for the OP's stated street use.
Just an alternative view.in good fun!
Andy
Luckily it broke in the middle, so I just had to remove the side frame and turn the bolt using a parrot key.
what made me think, is the fact I was really gently tightening the bolt, using a professional torque wrench and the bolt broke in a fragile way, emitting a “Tooonk” sound, very clear, all in a moment, exactly when the key has reached the tightening torque by issuing the classic click (I am not sure I remember well but I think it was 120Nm)
You were lucky!
Anyway, these are stretch bolts and need to be replaced with new along with all nuts and a few of the other bolts too.
One will need to wait for another twenty to twenty-five years before your implied conclusion that those brand new metal mounts pictured above will last longer than the originally installed rubber ones from the factory.
Who knows by then they could suffer fatigue or corrosion failure or even cause fatigue failure in the steel body mounting points. The car by then could even have become a parts supply chassis at a dismantler in, let's see, by the year 2040 or so.
The rubber mounts certainly dampen shocks and vibration a desirable feature that improves comfort and potentially protects the durability of the overall body from impact shock for the OP's stated street use.
Just an alternative view.in good fun!
Andy
Having driven both on the street, I would go with rs hardness rubber bushings. And in fact, that’s what I did!
On the track may notice a benefit with solid, but even then I think it would be pretty subtle.
On my way to get to a 993 RS alike, I finally found the right man to get the RS door panels job done, and now I must say: wow!
Together with the rennline dashboard and passenger airbag cover, the removal of the rear seats and seatbelts and the rear cover, and finally with the fiberglass hood, the bodywork on the silver 993 is at its end.
there is only the gear change with the g50.21 gear ratios to be done, I must wait few weeks in order to get the final quote from a couple of motorsport producers.
02-01-2019, 06:08 AM
