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Don’t neglect to check your ballpoints as well. I went with all new arms, since my a-arm was toast and so was my toe arm. The others last longer but I wanted to get it all done in one go.
So, making a summary, not to go wrong, I could buy and install the following parts:
- 2 front Control Arm Front Bushing (sp. Hardness)
- 2 Front Control Arm Bushing (sp. Hardness
- 1 ER Sport Hardness Rear Control Arm Bushing kit (6 pieces, 3 each side), but the rubber attachment points to change are 5 for each side and in order to refurbish all the elastic parts (front and rear) I should also change the #5 and #3 bushing (above exploded parts): are the dimensions of each arm-end the same?
Because in this case I could have probably at least 2 possibilities, using the 3 bushings in the ER kit for the #6 and #5 (is this the camber control arm?), and then:
- either add ER rear Toe control Arm (#3) Eccentric Bushing together with Rennline Rear Kinematic Control Arm (#4) with Eccentric Locks
- or add Rennline rear toe control arm (#3) with eccentric locks together with Rennline Rear Kinematic Control Arm (#4) with Eccentric Locks
What do you think is best?
really have no idea: in the ER kit there are 3 sport hardness bushings for each side, so even if I add the ER Toe Control Arm eccentric bushings or the RENNLINE monoball toe arm, there is still one bushing missing.
- 2 front Control Arm Front Bushing (sp. Hardness)
- 2 Front Control Arm Bushing (sp. Hardness
yes, ER #2290008-'89-'94 964, '95-'98 993, Sport Hardness 2290011-Sport Hardness,
+
'89-'94 964 rear bushing,
'95-'98 993 rear bushing,
'85-95 944 w/ alum. arms front bushing
Froom Elephant
- Rennline Solid Rear Subframe Kit and Tilt Kit
I would not use the tilt kit, use flat ones and you will also need shorter bolts. i'd buy these from Rennline as the bolts are available w/ the pucks. Again only if lowering below RS, otherwise stock stock or RS sport bushes also available from Rennline
- 1 ER Sport Hardness Rear Control Arm Bushing kit (6 pieces, 3 each side), but the rubber attachment points to change are 5 for each side and in order to refurbish all the elastic parts (front and rear) I should also change the #5 and #3 bushing (above exploded parts): are the dimensions of each arm-end the same?
There are 3 bushes per side that are more or less the same size and are interchangeable, the inner ends of #4(kinetic toe), #5(camber) & #6(A-arm), but the RS used regular bushes for the camber and A-arm( the A-arm only has a replaceable bush on the trailing leg. Thr leading leg is a sealed non replaceable mono-ball). The toe link #3 has a different bush.
I'd replace at least the KT arm & A-arm w/ new factory RS parts, the A-arm leading mono-ball link takes a beating and is often very loosey goosey. The camber arm you can put sport bushes in but it doesn't really make that much difference there, sort of like the sub frame mounts
like the A-arms like the toe arms(#3) take a beating, if they've never been replaced replace them w/ new. Or for more precision replace w/ mono-ball links w/ locks, Tarett has some good ones. get eccentric locks for these and booties for the mono-*****
You really don't want the Rennline arms as these are all mono-ball, great for a track car( I have them on mine) but the RS sport rubber is much more appropriate for a street car.
I'd also add Tarett RSR inner tie rods, these can be used w/ either stock or RS outers
So now! The RS rear A-Arm (#6) has the front leg with monoball (the ROW 993 has this as well?)...no way to replace it, but buying a new one. Good to know this.
I suppose the same is about the ball joint of the Toe Arm (#3) and KT Arm (#4): one can replace the bushing, but on the other end there is a monoball joint.
So from what I can understand now the first step is to disassemble and check the conditions of the parts, especially the monoball joint on the wheel end: if they are loose it has no sense to replay the bushings on the other side.
Wow, yes, I am really confused now! It is always like that: the more info you gain, the more it takes to digest.
I am not very much into English acronyms (ea) ERP - (pr)...to me looks like Arabic language.
In the end, the last one is the Camber arm #5, probably (I must assume) the less stressed one, so that it could be enough to change the bushing with regular ones.
Only after having verified the conditions of the ball joints of each Arm, and the monoball of the A-arm front leg, if they are not loose, I could consider to buy the ER bushing kit (Sport Hardness), exchanging the bushes from #4, #5 and # 6 arms and probably, considering the connections of all these are harder than stock RS also add the Tarett # 3 Links would be consistent.
Otherwise, if the ball joints are loose, I must proceed to change A-Arms and KT with RS parts, and change the bushing of #5 with OEM and #3 with ER Rear Toe Control Arm (Track Rod) concentric stock hardness or Eccentric Sport Hardness?
It will be a very long summer, and even a longer winter...
So now! The RS rear A-Arm (#6) has the front leg with monoball (the ROW 993 has this as well?)...no way to replace it, but buying a new one. Good to know this.
I suppose the same is about the ball joint of the Toe Arm (#3) and KT Arm (#4): one can replace the bushing, but on the other end there is a monoball joint.
So from what I can understand now the first step is to disassemble and check the conditions of the parts, especially the monoball joint on the wheel end: if they are loose it has no sense to replay the bushings on the other side.
Wow, yes, I am really confused now! It is always like that: the more info you gain, the more it takes to digest.
I am not very much into English acronyms (ea) ERP - (pr)...to me looks like Arabic language.
In the end, the last one is the Camber arm #5, probably (I must assume) the less stressed one, so that it could be enough to change the bushing with regular ones.
Only after having verified the conditions of the ball joints of each Arm, and the monoball of the A-arm front leg, if they are not loose, I could consider to buy the ER bushing kit (Sport Hardness), exchanging the bushes from #4, #5 and # 6 arms and probably, considering the connections of all these are harder than stock RS also add the Tarett # 3 Links would be consistent.
Otherwise, if the ball joints are loose, I must proceed to change A-Arms and KT with RS parts, and change the bushing of #5 with OEM and #3 with ER Rear Toe Control Arm (Track Rod) concentric stock hardness or Eccentric Sport Hardness?
It will be a very long summer, and even a longer winter...
All 993 rear A-arm have that setup, they are all the same except for RS which has a stiffer rubber bush on the trailing leg and the GT2Evo/RSR which have mono-***** there
Yes all the arms have a ball joint on the outer end, which is why when I did this I just bought all new arms and hardware.
The outer ends of these are ball joints not mono-ball joints, unless you replace them w/ the Rennline turnbuckle arms
here are some pics of parts I've used on my car
Front A-arms w/ monoball cartridges in the bags, Rennline rear arms w/ mono-***** & boots on the mono-*****
RSR rear A-arm, this is the same as other 993s except that it has mono-***** on the trailing leg, the mono-ball is held together w/ the string here, the sealed mon-ball joint is on the leading leg
close up 2 rear arms w/ mono-*****
RS specific rea rarms A-arm and KT, RS parts are marked w/ the blue dot, RS bushes are marked w/ a green dot
close up of the rear A-arm leading leg sealed mono-ball joint
Sooo, thank you very much Bill, even more material to study!
To make a summary and define what it is:
- the front RS A-arms differ to the stock 993's only in the stiffer rubber bushes of the trailing leg, the leading leg and ball joint are same as stock 993 - ball joint here could be replaced without buying the entire A-arm
- in the back RS A-arms differ to the stock again in the stiffer rubber bushe of the trailing leg, the leading leg is a sealed non replaceable mono-ball as stock 993.
Let's assume that all the ball joints of all arms and links are in good shape (not loosy goosy) and also both the monoball of the rear A-arm leading leg is not loose, I could buy the ER kit (6 stiffer bushes for the #6, # 4 and #5) and the ER eccentric for #3.
It should not be that way, finding even only at one side the ball joint and rear A-arm monoball loose, I should buy everything new, but in this case, to improve it a bit in precision, if I understood right I could buy the new RS A-Arms (#6) and RS KT (#4), plus Tarett Camber Arm (#5) and Tarett Toe Link (#3) for more precision. Using the Tarett will be significantly reducing the riding comfort or these are only regulating links?
Watching all the stuff on the Rennline, Tarett and Elephant Racing websites I couldn't avoid to stop watching this picture related to solid mounts bushing kit
In this picture it is visible the solid bushing kit together with Monoball Camber Arm and Monoball KT Arm.
Rennline and Tarett: Rennline are solid monoballs while Tarett are teflon monoball, so that using Tarett produces a smaller loss in comfort on the road, than Rennline ones that are specifically for track? Is it so?
Beacause if it is like that, probably in case of changing everything with bran new parts, instead of the OEM parts, I would buy the Tarett upper control Arms (which I suppose are #4 and #5) together with Tarett Toe Link (#3) and RS A-arms.
Did I get it right?
P.S. ERP is an Acronym for the material? Are they made of Ergal? Or what is it?
Last edited by nothingbutgt3; 07-03-2018 at 08:20 AM.
Reason: forgot to add a detail
Sooo, thank you very much Bill, even more material to study!
To make a summary and define what it is:
- the front RS A-arms differ to the stock 993's only in the stiffer rubber bushes of the trailing leg, the leading leg and ball joint are same as stock 993 - ball joint here could be replaced without buying the entire A-arm
- in the back RS A-arms differ to the stock again in the stiffer rubber bushe of the trailing leg, the leading leg is a sealed non replaceable mono-ball as stock 993.
Let's assume that all the ball joints of all arms and links are in good shape (not loosy goosy) and also both the monoball of the rear A-arm leading leg is not loose, I could buy the ER kit (6 stiffer bushes for the #6, # 4 and #5) and the ER eccentric for #3.
It should not be that way, finding even only at one side the ball joint and rear A-arm monoball loose, I should buy everything new, but in this case, to improve it a bit in precision, if I understood right I could buy the new RS A-Arms (#6) and RS KT (#4), plus Tarett Camber Arm (#5) and Tarett Toe Link (#3) for more precision. Using the Tarett will be significantly reducing the riding comfort or these are only regulating links?
Watching all the stuff on the Rennline, Tarett and Elephant Racing websites I couldn't avoid to stop watching this picture related to solid mounts bushing kit
In this picture it is visible the solid bushing kit together with Monoball Camber Arm and Monoball KT Arm.
Rennline and Tarett: Rennline are solid monoballs while Tarett are teflon monoball, so that using Tarett produces a smaller loss in comfort on the road, than Rennline ones that are specifically for track? Is it so?
Beacause if it is like that, probably in case of changing everything with bran new parts, instead of the OEM parts, I would buy the Tarett upper control Arms (which I suppose are #4 and #5) together with Tarett Toe Link (#3) and RS A-arms.
Did I get it right?
P.S. ERP is an Acronym for the material? Are they made of Ergal? Or what is it?
The picture is showing a mish mash of parts that don't really go together, the side mount bushes shown appear to be rubber
I don't understand why you keep going back to mono-***** but here's what you need to decide
more street that track
Front minimum - RS sport rubber on the A-arm trailing leg( or bu a new RS A-arm) +1 step is to add RS sport rubber on the leading leg(Elephant is a goo source) +2 step add RSR inner steering arm pieces(Tarett is a good source) +3 step add RS wheel carrier & RS outer steering arm pieces(oe or 9M or BBi are all possible sources)
Rear minimum - RS KT arm & RS A-arm(alternately Elephant sport rubber bushes for the inner ends, you don't need to do the camber arm), +1 step solid flat side mounts but only if going below RS height at RS ot higher stock or stiffer sport rubber. it won't make much difference.+2 step Tarett toe arms w/ locks
OR
more track than street
Front Elephant or Rennline monoballs on both A-arm legs and RSR inner steering arms and RS outer steering arms and RS wheel carrier(oe 9M or BBi) and lower the car well below RS
Rear Rennline KT and camber and Tarett mono-ball toe arms all w// locks and boots and solid flat side mounts and RSR Arms and lower the car well below RS
I'd also use RS sways and 8.5 & 10 x18 wheels w/ whatever rubber is available for your activities
Stock rubber side mount bushes
Solid flat side mount
Here what an RSR rear will look like, note the locking rings and eccentric locks to keep everything in place
I'm currently going through the suspension on my 1995 993. I have the subframes removed and the bushings look surprisingly good and the rubber is firm. Do bushings need to be changed due to age only or does a 24 year old bushing that appears to be in good shape still have some life left in it? This is a purely street oriented car.
I'm currently going through the suspension on my 1995 993. I have the subframes removed and the bushings look surprisingly good and the rubber is firm. Do bushings need to be changed due to age only or does a 24 year old bushing that appears to be in good shape still have some life left in it? This is a purely street oriented car.
Then sub frame bushes don't see the types of stress that the control arm bushes do, mine were fine too.
oe 20yr old sub frame bushes
oe 20yr old camber arm bushes
the toe arm by far sees the worst stress followed by the A-arm. I have yet to pull even a 6 yr old toe or A-arm wasn't in need of replacement
If you have it apart the parts are cheap enough to replace as p/m
I have everything apart, just don't want to spend $600+ on subframe bushings if not necessary. I am definitely replacing the smaller rear suspension bushings control arm, A arm, etc.
$291 for the set. I have them in my car and they are working great.
I agree with Bill, once you have the subframe out, the hard part is done, get those bushings replaced. Mine were still serviceable but I could tell they were starting to dry out and had some hairline cracks. Well worth replacing IMO.
EDIT: My mistake, I just realized that’s per side, so it is close to $600 for the set. I got them when they were on sale and forgot how much they are retail.
I also replaced all of the bushings in the rear suspension and when I replaced my subframe bushings they too looked similar to what Bill shared. The subframe bushings probably didn't need to be replaced, but since all the control arms were removed it was easy to do it.
I replaced my subframe bushings with Elephant racing solid bushings. They also make the rubber replacement ones too. If you click on my wrench log below I documented the experience.
More Street than track - more track than street, to be or not to be...you put your finger in the wound
The fact is, I dont know what to expect fro m the changes, I wouldn't like the idea of doing a change and think it could have been more radical.
As for solid or rubber subframe, I want to low the car, and if the only minus lowering at 115mm front is about bumps and ramps (and not a big loss of comfort in comparison to rubber mounts) then for me it is go.
I don't use this car as a daily car, not even to go to the office, really seldom to the restaurant.
I take it to go for quick drive on closed road, for like hill climbing or similar (and here the quality of road surface could be very good but also not that good) and for going to the circuit always with chrono.
I saw a video of a yellow 993 clubsport driven on the roads in England and it didn't seem so terrible to be driven on the road, maybe more bumpy and jumpy and noisy.
I don't know if setting the PSS10 on 2 could make the presence of monoballs more acceptable for street use, which means fast street use mainly on closed roads.
What I am worried about is not only the loss comfort but more the effectiveness, ie time loss climbing a hill.
Too low could be maybe a problem on very tight curves uphill? Too stiff because of monoballs could reduce the driving compliance?
What about the chassis that would be probably under heavier vibrations coming from the road?
“ I placed the order at a Local Porsche dealer and the ETA of the uprights is October 2018”
has anyone else received confirmation from Porsche that the uprights will be avail again in Oct or is this a pipe Dream? Seems like they keep kicking the can down the road
More Street than track - more track than street, to be or not to be...you put your finger in the wound
The fact is, I dont know what to expect fro m the changes, I wouldn't like the idea of doing a change and think it could have been more radical.
As for solid or rubber subframe, I want to low the car, and if the only minus lowering at 115mm front is about bumps and ramps (and not a big loss of comfort in comparison to rubber mounts) then for me it is go.
I don't use this car as a daily car, not even to go to the office, really seldom to the restaurant.
I take it to go for quick drive on closed road, for like hill climbing or similar (and here the quality of road surface could be very good but also not that good) and for going to the circuit always with chrono.
I saw a video of a yellow 993 clubsport driven on the roads in England and it didn't seem so terrible to be driven on the road, maybe more bumpy and jumpy and noisy.
I don't know if setting the PSS10 on 2 could make the presence of monoballs more acceptable for street use, which means fast street use mainly on closed roads.
What I am worried about is not only the loss comfort but more the effectiveness, ie time loss climbing a hill.
Too low could be maybe a problem on very tight curves uphill? Too stiff because of monoballs could reduce the driving compliance?
What about the chassis that would be probably under heavier vibrations coming from the road?
Honestly you can't go wrong either way, both setups I outlined above are very happy on either track or street, just the bias tilts one way or the other
While I love the precision of the RSR mono-ball suspension but the only reason I went to that setup was that during track days the stock eccentrics would not hold alignment, this made the car undriveable. The eccentric locks w/ turnbuckle adjustment eliminates that issue as well as all KT. W/ the RS sport rubber w/ much reduced KT effect the car was still great on track. Additionally the rubber bushes will last longer than the mono-*****
I run my car at RSR height and need to be very careful at transitions, I cannot go over a lot of speed bumps either. The car needs 15' of ramp to get on my trailer