Tlaloc75

Bill Verburg

yes, ER #2290008-'89-'94 964, '95-'98 993, Sport Hardness 2290011-Sport Hardness,
+
'89-'94 964 rear bushing,
'95-'98 993 rear bushing,
'85-95 944 w/ alum. arms front bushing
Froom Elephant

I would not use the tilt kit, use flat ones and you will also need shorter bolts. i'd buy these from Rennline as the bolts are available w/ the pucks. Again only if lowering below RS, otherwise stock stock or RS sport bushes also available from Rennline

There are 3 bushes per side that are more or less the same size and are interchangeable, the inner ends of #4(kinetic toe), #5(camber) & #6(A-arm), but the RS used regular bushes for the camber and A-arm( the A-arm only has a replaceable bush on the trailing leg. Thr leading leg is a sealed non replaceable mono-ball). The toe link #3 has a different bush.

I'd replace at least the KT arm & A-arm w/ new factory RS parts, the A-arm leading mono-ball link takes a beating and is often very loosey goosey. The camber arm you can put sport bushes in but it doesn't really make that much difference there, sort of like the sub frame mounts
like the A-arms like the toe arms(#3) take a beating, if they've never been replaced replace them w/ new. Or for more precision replace w/ mono-ball links w/ locks, Tarett has some good ones. get eccentric locks for these and booties for the mono-*****

You really don't want the Rennline arms as these are all mono-ball, great for a track car( I have them on mine) but the RS sport rubber is much more appropriate for a street car.


I'd also add Tarett RSR inner tie rods, these can be used w/ either stock or RS outers

nothingbutgt3

So now! The RS rear A-Arm (#6) has the front leg with monoball (the ROW 993 has this as well?)...no way to replace it, but buying a new one. Good to know this.
I suppose the same is about the ball joint of the Toe Arm (#3) and KT Arm (#4): one can replace the bushing, but on the other end there is a monoball joint.

So from what I can understand now the first step is to disassemble and check the conditions of the parts, especially the monoball joint on the wheel end: if they are loose it has no sense to replay the bushings on the other side.

Wow, yes, I am really confused now! It is always like that: the more info you gain, the more it takes to digest.

So far it is clear what to do about front suspension and subframe: concerning the rear I must consider to change the #6 with RS A-Arms, the #4 with RS KT and the #3 Toe Arm either with Part n° 993 331 043 00 (the same for all the 993) or with Tarett Toe links, that offer 2 different type:
http://www.tarett.com/items/993-964-...0#ITEM_2986398
or
http://www.tarett.com/items/993-964-...lnk-detail.htm ?

I am not very much into English acronyms (ea) ERP - (pr)...to me looks like Arabic language.

In the end, the last one is the Camber arm #5, probably (I must assume) the less stressed one, so that it could be enough to change the bushing with regular ones.

Only after having verified the conditions of the ball joints of each Arm, and the monoball of the A-arm front leg, if they are not loose, I could consider to buy the ER bushing kit (Sport Hardness), exchanging the bushes from #4, #5 and # 6 arms and probably, considering the connections of all these are harder than stock RS also add the Tarett # 3 Links would be consistent.
Otherwise, if the ball joints are loose, I must proceed to change A-Arms and KT with RS parts, and change the bushing of #5 with OEM and #3 with ER Rear Toe Control Arm (Track Rod) concentric stock hardness or Eccentric Sport Hardness?

It will be a very long summer, and even a longer winter...

Bill Verburg

All 993 rear A-arm have that setup, they are all the same except for RS which has a stiffer rubber bush on the trailing leg and the GT2Evo/RSR which have mono-***** there

Yes all the arms have a ball joint on the outer end, which is why when I did this I just bought all new arms and hardware.

The outer ends of these are ball joints not mono-ball joints, unless you replace them w/ the Rennline turnbuckle arms

here are some pics of parts I've used on my car

Front A-arms w/ monoball cartridges in the bags, Rennline rear arms w/ mono-***** & boots on the mono-*****


RSR rear A-arm, this is the same as other 993s except that it has mono-***** on the trailing leg, the mono-ball is held together w/ the string here, the sealed mon-ball joint is on the leading leg


close up 2 rear arms w/ mono-*****

RS specific rea rarms A-arm and KT, RS parts are marked w/ the blue dot, RS bushes are marked w/ a green dot



close up of the rear A-arm leading leg sealed mono-ball joint

nothingbutgt3

Sooo, thank you very much Bill, even more material to study!

To make a summary and define what it is:

- the front RS A-arms differ to the stock 993's only in the stiffer rubber bushes of the trailing leg, the leading leg and ball joint are same as stock 993 - ball joint here could be replaced without buying the entire A-arm

- in the back RS A-arms differ to the stock again in the stiffer rubber bushe of the trailing leg, the leading leg is a sealed non replaceable mono-ball as stock 993.

Let's assume that all the ball joints of all arms and links are in good shape (not loosy goosy) and also both the monoball of the rear A-arm leading leg is not loose, I could buy the ER kit (6 stiffer bushes for the #6, # 4 and #5) and the ER eccentric for #3.

It should not be that way, finding even only at one side the ball joint and rear A-arm monoball loose, I should buy everything new, but in this case, to improve it a bit in precision, if I understood right I could buy the new RS A-Arms (#6) and RS KT (#4), plus Tarett Camber Arm (#5) and Tarett Toe Link (#3) for more precision. Using the Tarett will be significantly reducing the riding comfort or these are only regulating links?

Completing the upgrade with the Tarett RSR style inner tie rods and the Rennline Solid Rear Subframe Bushing kit (this comes with everything needed right?)
http://www.rennline.com/Rennline-Sol...tinfo/SB58.76/

Watching all the stuff on the Rennline, Tarett and Elephant Racing websites I couldn't avoid to stop watching this picture related to solid mounts bushing kit




In this picture it is visible the solid bushing kit together with Monoball Camber Arm and Monoball KT Arm.
Rennline and Tarett: Rennline are solid monoballs while Tarett are teflon monoball, so that using Tarett produces a smaller loss in comfort on the road, than Rennline ones that are specifically for track? Is it so?

Beacause if it is like that, probably in case of changing everything with bran new parts, instead of the OEM parts, I would buy the Tarett upper control Arms (which I suppose are #4 and #5) together with Tarett Toe Link (#3) and RS A-arms.

Did I get it right?


P.S. ERP is an Acronym for the material? Are they made of Ergal? Or what is it?

Paul M

E.R.P. is another manufacturer

Bill Verburg

The picture is showing a mish mash of parts that don't really go together, the side mount bushes shown appear to be rubber
I don't understand why you keep going back to mono-***** but here's what you need to decide

more street that track
Front minimum - RS sport rubber on the A-arm trailing leg( or bu a new RS A-arm) +1 step is to add RS sport rubber on the leading leg(Elephant is a goo source) +2 step add RSR inner steering arm pieces(Tarett is a good source) +3 step add RS wheel carrier & RS outer steering arm pieces(oe or 9M or BBi are all possible sources)

Rear minimum - RS KT arm & RS A-arm(alternately Elephant sport rubber bushes for the inner ends, you don't need to do the camber arm), +1 step solid flat side mounts but only if going below RS height at RS ot higher stock or stiffer sport rubber. it won't make much difference.+2 step Tarett toe arms w/ locks


OR

more track than street
Front Elephant or Rennline monoballs on both A-arm legs and RSR inner steering arms and RS outer steering arms and RS wheel carrier(oe 9M or BBi) and lower the car well below RS
Rear Rennline KT and camber and Tarett mono-ball toe arms all w// locks and boots and solid flat side mounts and RSR Arms and lower the car well below RS

I'd also use RS sways and 8.5 & 10 x18 wheels w/ whatever rubber is available for your activities
Stock rubber side mount bushes


Solid flat side mount


Here what an RSR rear will look like, note the locking rings and eccentric locks to keep everything in place

IHTFP

Bill,

I'm currently going through the suspension on my 1995 993. I have the subframes removed and the bushings look surprisingly good and the rubber is firm. Do bushings need to be changed due to age only or does a 24 year old bushing that appears to be in good shape still have some life left in it? This is a purely street oriented car.

Bill Verburg

Then sub frame bushes don't see the types of stress that the control arm bushes do, mine were fine too.

oe 20yr old sub frame bushes


oe 20yr old camber arm bushes


the toe arm by far sees the worst stress followed by the A-arm. I have yet to pull even a 6 yr old toe or A-arm wasn't in need of replacement

If you have it apart the parts are cheap enough to replace as p/m

IHTFP

I have everything apart, just don't want to spend $600+ on subframe bushings if not necessary. I am definitely replacing the smaller rear suspension bushings control arm, A arm, etc.

Tlaloc75

samurai_k

I also replaced all of the bushings in the rear suspension and when I replaced my subframe bushings they too looked similar to what Bill shared. The subframe bushings probably didn't need to be replaced, but since all the control arms were removed it was easy to do it.

I replaced my subframe bushings with Elephant racing solid bushings. They also make the rubber replacement ones too. If you click on my wrench log below I documented the experience.

nothingbutgt3

More Street than track - more track than street, to be or not to be...you put your finger in the wound

The fact is, I dont know what to expect fro m the changes, I wouldn't like the idea of doing a change and think it could have been more radical.

As for solid or rubber subframe, I want to low the car, and if the only minus lowering at 115mm front is about bumps and ramps (and not a big loss of comfort in comparison to rubber mounts) then for me it is go.

I don't use this car as a daily car, not even to go to the office, really seldom to the restaurant.
I take it to go for quick drive on closed road, for like hill climbing or similar (and here the quality of road surface could be very good but also not that good) and for going to the circuit always with chrono.

I saw a video of a yellow 993 clubsport driven on the roads in England and it didn't seem so terrible to be driven on the road, maybe more bumpy and jumpy and noisy.
I don't know if setting the PSS10 on 2 could make the presence of monoballs more acceptable for street use, which means fast street use mainly on closed roads.
What I am worried about is not only the loss comfort but more the effectiveness, ie time loss climbing a hill.
Too low could be maybe a problem on very tight curves uphill? Too stiff because of monoballs could reduce the driving compliance?
What about the chassis that would be probably under heavier vibrations coming from the road?

JZ98-993

Bill Verburg

Honestly you can't go wrong either way, both setups I outlined above are very happy on either track or street, just the bias tilts one way or the other
While I love the precision of the RSR mono-ball suspension but the only reason I went to that setup was that during track days the stock eccentrics would not hold alignment, this made the car undriveable. The eccentric locks w/ turnbuckle adjustment eliminates that issue as well as all KT. W/ the RS sport rubber w/ much reduced KT effect the car was still great on track. Additionally the rubber bushes will last longer than the mono-*****

I run my car at RSR height and need to be very careful at transitions, I cannot go over a lot of speed bumps either. The car needs 15' of ramp to get on my trailer