I made it to Atlanta, unfortunately not all of my oil has
12-21-2003, 11:33 PM
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I made it to Atlanta, unfortunately not all of my oil has
got here a few hours ago, parked the car and went out to dinner. When I got out of the car I smelled something funny, like burning synthetic oil but ignored it out of exhaustion and the need to go to the bathroom.
Came back from dinner and moved the car to a better spot. I remembered the oil smell so I looked on the street and there is a spot about twice the size of a quarter, definately fresh oil. I go to the driveway, were I have just parked and there is a spot already there that is about a 4" wide circle. I got a piece of carpet scrap and put it under the backside of the car. 1 hour later there is no oil on the carpet, though after inspecting the underside of the car with a flashlight I see fresh, clean oil all over the rear skidplate. No lifts available here so I can not really get under it. When I drove the car from 1 spot to the next the oil gauge never moved, it stayed at the bottom. The car was cold by this point.
What should I do? I tried checking the oil via the dipstick, did not show much. and of course the manul says to check with the engine running and at operating temp. At this point I am worried about the damage that getting it to operating temp may cause.
A few more details to add. I have driven the car a touch over 1700 miles in the last 3 days, from Tucson to Atlanta. The car was certified and inspected by the dealer and went through a very thorough PPI by an Indy shop in Tucson (Radmacher Porsche Service) I was nervouse about my oil pressure (see other thread) so I watched the pressure like a hawk. I had 0 warning lights and the pressure gauge stayed in the 4-5 range the entire trip at hwy speeds.
What do y'all think?
Jon
Came back from dinner and moved the car to a better spot. I remembered the oil smell so I looked on the street and there is a spot about twice the size of a quarter, definately fresh oil. I go to the driveway, were I have just parked and there is a spot already there that is about a 4" wide circle. I got a piece of carpet scrap and put it under the backside of the car. 1 hour later there is no oil on the carpet, though after inspecting the underside of the car with a flashlight I see fresh, clean oil all over the rear skidplate. No lifts available here so I can not really get under it. When I drove the car from 1 spot to the next the oil gauge never moved, it stayed at the bottom. The car was cold by this point.
What should I do? I tried checking the oil via the dipstick, did not show much. and of course the manul says to check with the engine running and at operating temp. At this point I am worried about the damage that getting it to operating temp may cause.
A few more details to add. I have driven the car a touch over 1700 miles in the last 3 days, from Tucson to Atlanta. The car was certified and inspected by the dealer and went through a very thorough PPI by an Indy shop in Tucson (Radmacher Porsche Service) I was nervouse about my oil pressure (see other thread) so I watched the pressure like a hawk. I had 0 warning lights and the pressure gauge stayed in the 4-5 range the entire trip at hwy speeds.
What do y'all think?
Jon
Last edited by Jon 'Bama; 12-21-2003 at 11:58 PM.
12-21-2003, 11:55 PM
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did you have a recent service? may be residual oil that was spilled onto the top of the cover. the engine cover a lot of times catches the oil, letting it "go" when it's warmed and the car is not setting level. (hopefully that's all it is)
otherwise you can do a search as there are many posts ranging from the (most common): a lower valve cover gasket (which you can "diy" fix) to various "o-rings"
good luck jon!!!
btw: did you check your oil level w/ the dip stick to see how much oil you may have lost? ( ooops! just saw that you did! sorry... don't be too worried jon could just be the gasket "thing" esp. (if even that) if you have around 40k miles on tha' clock...
jon, don't be too worried. i remember bringing my car home to cali (from st. louis) this time last year... only to notice my oil gauge was in the red... then sitting on the side of the highway reading my owners manual sweating bullets)... only to find that the oil gauge is "not" to be read while driving.
just my ¢2 is that you're more than likely just fine. in the morning take her to a shop (warm) and take the engine cover off (& i'd keep it off) wipe it down and check all the areas esp. oil filter, plug, and lower valve cover(s)... to start... then take it from there. again though, if the car was recently serviced chances are it's just spillage. esp. if you levels were not low or the car didn't get too hot. again my ¢2.
otherwise you can do a search as there are many posts ranging from the (most common): a lower valve cover gasket (which you can "diy" fix) to various "o-rings"
good luck jon!!!
btw: did you check your oil level w/ the dip stick to see how much oil you may have lost? ( ooops! just saw that you did! sorry... don't be too worried jon could just be the gasket "thing" esp. (if even that) if you have around 40k miles on tha' clock...
jon, don't be too worried. i remember bringing my car home to cali (from st. louis) this time last year... only to notice my oil gauge was in the red... then sitting on the side of the highway reading my owners manual sweating bullets)... only to find that the oil gauge is "not" to be read while driving.
just my ¢2 is that you're more than likely just fine. in the morning take her to a shop (warm) and take the engine cover off (& i'd keep it off) wipe it down and check all the areas esp. oil filter, plug, and lower valve cover(s)... to start... then take it from there. again though, if the car was recently serviced chances are it's just spillage. esp. if you levels were not low or the car didn't get too hot. again my ¢2.
Last edited by 24FPS; 12-22-2003 at 12:18 AM.
12-22-2003, 12:01 AM
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yeah it was just serviced before I bought it. It just had its 60k mile service (at 54k) to ready it for sale. Fortunately it is under warranty, so I am going to try to get it to an Atlanta dealer tomorow. Unless someone here knows another tactic to take?
Jon
Jon
12-22-2003, 12:07 AM
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Jon,
I can understand being alarmed, but I really wouldn't stress. Pause, deep breath... let it out... okay.
Oil pressure is really all that matters as far as 'did my engine get harmed'. Your pressure (described in the other thread) was textbook-normal.
If it makes you feel better, pick up a quart of 15w-50 Mobil1 (if you can get any w/o starting the car) and put in HALF a quart. I really don't think you even need to do this, but I imagine it would make you feel better. When you start the engine cold, you will see a high pressure reading (whether you add 1/2 a quart or not) - that's normal for cold oil. Go ahead & let the engine warm up, and then check w. the dipstick. Add oil if needed. The dipstick range is 1.5 quarts - don't overfill!
You'll know when the engine is warmed up when the oil temp gauge goes *above* the 8 o'clock mark, and then drops back down. This means the engine's gotten warm enough to open the thermostat & start circulating oil up to the cooler in the front.
I can understand being alarmed, but I really wouldn't stress. Pause, deep breath... let it out... okay.
Oil pressure is really all that matters as far as 'did my engine get harmed'. Your pressure (described in the other thread) was textbook-normal.
If it makes you feel better, pick up a quart of 15w-50 Mobil1 (if you can get any w/o starting the car) and put in HALF a quart. I really don't think you even need to do this, but I imagine it would make you feel better. When you start the engine cold, you will see a high pressure reading (whether you add 1/2 a quart or not) - that's normal for cold oil. Go ahead & let the engine warm up, and then check w. the dipstick. Add oil if needed. The dipstick range is 1.5 quarts - don't overfill!
You'll know when the engine is warmed up when the oil temp gauge goes *above* the 8 o'clock mark, and then drops back down. This means the engine's gotten warm enough to open the thermostat & start circulating oil up to the cooler in the front.
12-22-2003, 12:10 AM
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Oh, as far as the oil leak -- I think the most likely answer is the lower valve cover gasket(s) (one on each side). I've had to replace both of mine. If you do a search on my past posts, I have a pretty thorough description. Don't pay a dealer big bucks for a simple task like that!
Oil that leaks past the valve cover gaskets will pool on top of the heat exchangers. That generates the burning oil smell, and will overflow onto whatever's below.
Gaskets are something like $30 retail each, but ~$20 each w. PCA discount.
Oil that leaks past the valve cover gaskets will pool on top of the heat exchangers. That generates the burning oil smell, and will overflow onto whatever's below.
Gaskets are something like $30 retail each, but ~$20 each w. PCA discount.
12-22-2003, 12:38 AM
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If he's driven the car for 1700 miles I think any spilled oil from the last oil change would've burned off by now. Could be a rear main seal leak, as well if the spot is dead center under the car. My former 95 Carrera 4 leaked there a week after I took delivery (38k miles). My car was dealer certified, too, and they fixed it under warranty and gave me a fresh clutch disk upon my request. It was an expensive repair, and my understanding is PCNA will not readily reimburse the dealership for repairs needed immediately after sale, since they should've been caught on the certification inspection, during which the dealer covers the repair. My dealer had to absorb the cost, as well as fix a bad LED in the OBC display (needed a new tach), third brake light (new rear glass), labor on the RMS for dropping the motor and transmission, etc. I would've hated to see that bill.
Vic
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Vic
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12-22-2003, 12:51 AM
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thanks Robert
I won't pay the dealer a penny, that's what warranties are for, but I appreciate the advice nontheless.
what really worries me is that I just had a PPI done and there were 0 leaks discoved, not even remnants of old leaks to be found, which could mean one of three things:
1) the selling dealer did a great job of cleaning the car, so great that an old leak was completely missed buy my PPI shop. Thus making me wonder what the hell else they covered up (I find this very unlikely by the way)
2) my PPI guy did not know what he was doing/did nothing but told me he did (I also think this is unlikely, he came highly reccomended by the local pca chapter and he noticed a lot of really small things that the dealer missed)
3) This is a brand new leak that sprung up on the drive here. (This is the one I am leaning heavily towards. I just hope that the leak just happened a few miles back and not a few hundred miles ago.)
Mostly I am just pissed, I have owned the car for 3 days. I am in Atlanta for two more and then am going home. I really don't want to leave the car here with the dealer and have to come back for it after christmas I just got it and want to drive.
Jon
btw upon further inspection the leak is coming (yes there is more oil now
) from the area above the forward most skid plate (looks plastic is this the plastic engine tray discussed in another thread?)
I won't pay the dealer a penny, that's what warranties are for, but I appreciate the advice nontheless.
what really worries me is that I just had a PPI done and there were 0 leaks discoved, not even remnants of old leaks to be found, which could mean one of three things:
1) the selling dealer did a great job of cleaning the car, so great that an old leak was completely missed buy my PPI shop. Thus making me wonder what the hell else they covered up (I find this very unlikely by the way)
2) my PPI guy did not know what he was doing/did nothing but told me he did (I also think this is unlikely, he came highly reccomended by the local pca chapter and he noticed a lot of really small things that the dealer missed)
3) This is a brand new leak that sprung up on the drive here. (This is the one I am leaning heavily towards. I just hope that the leak just happened a few miles back and not a few hundred miles ago.)
Mostly I am just pissed, I have owned the car for 3 days. I am in Atlanta for two more and then am going home. I really don't want to leave the car here with the dealer and have to come back for it after christmas I just got it and want to drive.
Jon
btw upon further inspection the leak is coming (yes there is more oil now
) from the area above the forward most skid plate (looks plastic is this the plastic engine tray discussed in another thread?)
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12-22-2003, 02:14 AM
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All you need to remove the engine tray is a phillips screwdriver - four or five Dzus (1/4 turn) fasteners & it falls off. You won't be able to see where the leak is coming from with that still on the car.
12-23-2003, 04:24 AM
#10
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Jon,
Do you know if the car was sitting idle for a long while before you bought it?
I don't know how true it is but I was told that if air cooled engines sat idle for a few months without being started once in a while the seals dried and became brittle and failed the next time they got a good use.
If your car had sat for a while this may in fact be true in your case.
Either way, you said you watched the oil pressure like a hawk and you can't have oil pressure without oil.
BOL getting it sorted.
Alan
Do you know if the car was sitting idle for a long while before you bought it?
I don't know how true it is but I was told that if air cooled engines sat idle for a few months without being started once in a while the seals dried and became brittle and failed the next time they got a good use.
If your car had sat for a while this may in fact be true in your case.
Either way, you said you watched the oil pressure like a hawk and you can't have oil pressure without oil.
BOL getting it sorted.
Alan
12-23-2003, 06:22 AM
#11
This won't help you, but my car did exactly the same thing after 2 weeks of ownership. It ended up spending 6 weeks at the dealers with various 'bits'!
Rear main seal was main cause of leak. Common as chips.
Good luck.
Alan
Rear main seal was main cause of leak. Common as chips.
Good luck.
Alan
12-23-2003, 09:18 AM
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Jon,
As you have probably noticed, oil leaks is a common expectation of many of these air cooled cars. I also have had numerous leaks and have one right now (not exactly sure which it is).
Remember that these cars carry about 12 quarts of oil and a it takes a lot of small drips and puddles to make up a quart, let alone 12 quarts.
From everything you have said I definately would not worry that you have lost too much oil.
Enjoy the car and the projects that come with it.
-SKip
As you have probably noticed, oil leaks is a common expectation of many of these air cooled cars. I also have had numerous leaks and have one right now (not exactly sure which it is).
Remember that these cars carry about 12 quarts of oil and a it takes a lot of small drips and puddles to make up a quart, let alone 12 quarts.
From everything you have said I definately would not worry that you have lost too much oil.
Enjoy the car and the projects that come with it.
-SKip
12-23-2003, 10:01 AM
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Don't think a good cleaning of the underside would hide an oil leak well. On the contrary, that's how you find oil leaks most easily - by cleaning everything first and then watching. A dirty engine can hide a lot of things.
12-23-2003, 10:14 AM
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the saga continues
The car did sit for 2-3 months and then I took a cross country hard drive in it. My mechanic at Hennesey Porsche in Atlanta thinks this is exactly the reason it went.
unfortunately I just heard that I need a new clutch and fly wheel as well, which of course is NOT covered under warranty. And because I am going back to Bama tomorow (and need the car to do it) I can not even use this time to upgrade to an RS clutch
Oh well at least when I am done with all of this the car should be pretty much new
Jon
unfortunately I just heard that I need a new clutch and fly wheel as well, which of course is NOT covered under warranty. And because I am going back to Bama tomorow (and need the car to do it) I can not even use this time to upgrade to an RS clutch
Oh well at least when I am done with all of this the car should be pretty much new
Jon
