Jim Morton

Hello all.

I am thinking of changing out my transaxle when I do my LWF and clutch to a G50/21 (ROW) trnas.

Opinions... Car is '95 U.S. 993

Anybody got a good one for sale ??? Leads appreciated...

TIA

Jim Morton
'95 C2
'72 "S" targa

Viken

For opinions and/or discussions on this, look here:

<a href="http://p-car.com/gearfaq/" target="_blank">ROW Gearing and Light Weight Flywheel FAQ </a>

Robin 993DX

Jim,

I know in the past Gert have sourced out 993 ROW transmissions from Belgium for several guys on the board. You might want to give him a try. (BTW, I am not getting paid commission from Gert, I know this is my 2nd referral of the day to Gert)

Jim Morton

Thanks for the replies so far !

I have been corresponding with Gert already for leads. I will try the other German source as well.

As far as opinions, I am hoping to have anyone who has done this swap comment on the changes in gear change points. For example, right now with the US gearing, sixth is reserved for hyperspace ! 1, 2 and 3 are too far apart, yet 4 5 are nicely spaced. Great for an Autobahn, but I would like to have more usable gears for my backroads and TSD driving.

TIA

Jim

Eric in Chicago

Do it... I did the LWF and G50/21, seat of the pants dyno says 40hp gain.Now that is not real HP but it sure feels quicker in all the gears. I wont get it to the track until next month for the true test but it is a lot of fun so far. I dont know if I would do this upgrade for a street only car as it is a bit expensive, I had the trans R and R'ed and steel syncros replaced 3 thru 6th which added another 1500 to the over all price. I notice you have a 95, make sure you get the Andial type LWF with the added weights to prevent the stalling issue common with 95 and LWF's. Another bonus, with the early Euro trans, they have steel shift forks which are superior to our NA shift forks. If you cant find one overseas expect to pay 6 to 7K to have a shop re gear yours
Regards,

Viken

[quote]Originally posted by Eric in Chicago:
<strong>Do it... I did the LWF and G50/21, seat of the pants dyno says 40hp gain.Now that is not real HP but it sure feels quicker in all the gears.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Now, that is a bit of an exaggeration, isn't it?

[quote]<strong>Another bonus, with the early Euro trans, they have steel shift forks which are superior to our NA shift forks. If you cant find one overseas expect to pay 6 to 7K to have a shop re gear yours</strong><hr></blockquote>

Can you please explain what exactly is the difference between these shift forks?

993Widebody

Good luck getting a G50/21 especially if you want LSD. I have been trying to get one for some time now, so far... no luck. If you don't want LSD then they are a little easier to come by.

Eric in Chicago

Well Viken, I have a exaggerated rear (dyno that is) It does feel much quicker, the rev drop between shifts is less than the NA version thus quicker to the powerband and coupled with the LWF it just gets there faster. Now this is just driving around the city, the track will be the true test. As for the shift forks, my forks (96 993) were some kind of composite dual metal forks where as the forks found in the G50/21 that I bought from Gert were steel. The trans was a early model 50/21-2 with 50K on.

Viken

[quote]<strong>Well Viken, I have a exaggerated rear (dyno that is) It does feel much quicker, the rev drop between shifts is less than the NA version thus quicker to the powerband and coupled with the LWF it just gets there faster. Now this is just driving around the city, the track will be the true test.</strong>[QUOTE]

I was just kidding with you. The difference is quite a revelation, indeed. <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

[QUOTE]<strong>As for the shift forks, my forks (96 993) were some kind of composite dual metal forks where as the forks found in the G50/21 that I bought from Gert were steel. The trans was a early model 50/21-2 with 50K on.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Interesting! I also got me an early G64/21. I wonder if my forks are steel too. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Eric in Chicago

Viken, I forgot you had the 21 trans... Well if anything, maybe the info on this thread will be of benefit to someone. If you can find one buy it!
Your track times will improve, the opposite sex will be drawn to you, your portfolio will skyrocket,your rear tires will last longer ect. ect. ect.

Martin S.

Right now the G-50/21 is really hard to find. Eric in Chicago was lucky that Gert found him a box. When my neighbor was looking about a month ago...they were not to be found...Gert hit a brick wall.

The factory wants a core tranny...no Core, you are looking at about $12,000 for the tranny, ouch! <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

Flying Finn

I've only heard good things about it!

Gear ratios in US cars really could use some improvement (as wellas the ride height...), I think they really are too long!

Guys, if it's so hard to find a new tranny, how about changing gears?

Has anyone done that, isn't that less expensive too?

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Gents:

Just a data point on this subject but I might suggest having your transmission regeared to suit.

The 20/21 gearing isn't perfect by any means and there are far more options if you get exactly what ratios you want installed into your gearbox. With some internal modications, your 5th gear can be used as 6th and the much more durable Motorsport steel syncros can be added for a very rugged transmission.

Plus, you would be getting a transmission that has new parts and fresh, not simply another used gearbox.

Eric & the other folks are right on; installing close-ratio gears IS like adding 40-50 HP to the performance envelope of the car. This modification is much more cost effective than any engine upgrade.

Tom W

I had my transmission regeared, an LSD added and the LWF installed in January. It will cost about $1000 per gear to regear the transmission if you keep the stock (brass) synchros. Steel synchros will add significantly to the price. I was told by the guy who did the regearing that steel synchros are only needed on a dedicated race car that will see extended track time where the transmission gets really hot.

My car was definetly quicker that the stock 993s at autocross school last weekend.

For reference (I think the info was originally from Viken)...

/20 /21 /51 /Mine
1 3.818 3.818 3.818 3.818
2 2.048 2.150 2.150 2.250
3 1.407 1.560 1.560 1.632
4 1.118 1.242 1.212 1.286
5 0.928 1.024 0.937 1.083
6 0.775 0.820 0.750 0.928

[I've tried to edit this table twice to make it look better but ther board keeps removing the extra spaces and ignors tabs ...]