RS3.6

Hi all,

Is it possible to have over 400bhp on a 993 S but keep it NA??

Turbos and superchargers are out of the question. Want to keep it 100% NA.

What mods would it take to achieve this amount of power, but still keep it reliable? (If cost was not a problem)

Cheers

goofballdeluxe

Probably. But be prepared to spend serious money.

Singer's top output car makes close to that I think, but that engine probably costs close to $100K, I'd imagine.

RS3.6

So no normal mods that can add a good 100bhp?
Changing compression/exhausts/intakes...etc?

ilko

Throw enough money at it and anything's possible.

Leica 993

Not sure the juice would be worth the squeeze as it would require some serious cash for titanium and magnesium internals, machining, etc... As the saying goes, racing is all about turning money into noise, you'll be doing the same.

Quadcammer

9m heads, 3.8 with high compression pistons, good light valvetrain, forged or billet rods, GT3 intake, probably some custom cams, and good tuning (likely motec) would probably get it done. At least $60k if not more.

jscott82

As others have said, it's certainly possible. The better race shops can make you what you desire.... It's not just bolting a bunch of off the shelf parts together though. You need a carefully thought out plan.

Calling Trophy... He did one that makes close to that.

LexVan

Street or track car?

Going from 282 to +400 will not be cheap nor easy, as already stated above by several others.

Why the aversion to a 993TT? They are a fantastic car, and still very relevant in today's car world of +400 HP motors.

Maybe another approach for you is to reduce weight. It's mostly free. So, about every 10-12 pounds you can shave off the car, you pick up about 1 equivalent HP.

On your call list, should include Jake Raby at Flat Six Innovations. And Rennlister Steve Weinner.

Spyerx

Rothsport. Bring a clean 993 worth of cash.
can be done. Not cheap.

JB 911

then there was this thread

https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...ed-engine.html

jscott82

Oh just read the original post... He wanted reliable 400... I don't think that is possible... Anything in that power range is going to be a finicky high strung race engine.


That being said, a finicky high strung race engine will be pretty reliable if only driven to the grocery store and back...

trophy

As everyone has said, this is not cheap but is attainable.

What ever you do you are going to need displacement, cams and the ability to turn the engine above the current rev limit. Each of these 3 things cost a considerable amount of money.

Displacement requires pistons and cylinders, most of which run $5 to $8k. IF you want custom compression or lighter weight you can expect to add more to that sum.

Rev's need a bottom end upgrade in the form of GT3 Crank, Rods, bolts and quality oiling via a GT3 oil pump. Now these are steadily going up in price, and most guys want the cup or race versions of the items.

The other item is Cams, these are not overly expensive on their own, however the choice can and will effect the other choices in your engine. Now that we are turning the engine above 7000rpm, and we are running cams with high lift and duration, we need to look at solid rockers, as the stock ones will no be up to the task. So a relatively simple $1k cam becomes a $2.5k to $3k upgrade in the engine. This also doesn't consider the need to review this with your piston designer to ensure you will have enough valve/piston clearance.

There are also a number of barriers in the basic design of the engine that create a HP ceiling that at each point the solution is around $10k +.

Firstly the Intake of our engine Vario or not that reduces the potential of the engine no matter what has been done inside it. the Plastic pre vario intake is good for 330hp no more (I ran into this issue with my own build) The vario intake is not much better just moves the torque curve around a little. To overcome this you need to look at an intake system like was used by the factory to overcome this ceiling, that being ITB's. These come in a number of colors, from PMO, Jenvey, Rothsport 9M etc. These easily break through the 330 ceiling and will no longer limit the engines potential.

One caveat, to add this to the engine you then need to change the ECU, so the cost of this is not just the Intake that can be expensive you now need to add an aftermarket ECU that at minimum will cost $5k.

The second ceiling comes to us at around 390 hp (I am up against this ceiling with my own engine at the moment.) THis is a ceiling created by the heads, no matter what you have, except is you have a set of 993RSR heads . This will require you to choose one of the aftermarket head manufactures (9m, Elite, CMW etc) Each of these go about their head design in their own way, however to break through the 390 ceiling they are a must and will lighten your wallet by at least $12k +.

The exhaust is going to be the final piece of hardware needed to attain your goals.. Now the stock headers are actually quite good, they do contribute to the ceiling of 330hp as per the intake. You are going to need a set of custom headers and muffler system, Rothsport make a great one, expect to pay north of $5k for this upgrade.

Lastly you need someone to put it all together for you, in general this needs to be done by someone familiar with 911 engines, as well as hotrodding, i.e. blueprinting and balancing. These parts cannot just be thrown together. Expect to pay someone $20k for the privilege of being inside your engine.

Of course along the way other things may need replacing like timing chains, ramps, this stuff adds up quickly...

If you want to talk about my build and what I did I am happy to chat with you.... good luck.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

400+ N/A HP is no problem at all and we do this all the time.

Its not cheap, but nothing about these cars is.

doc_porsche

Steve's the man on these cars... btw Steve, would doing an engine build with turbo work better then just a 400 NA?

trophy

^ Thanks Doc.....


Ok, I know, you were talking about Steve W......