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Maybe more like a balance or an optimization of form and function. With the slightly lowered ride height and spacers, you get better form, while still retaining all the function of the stock setup (aside from the reduced ground clearance). The spacers do not induce any rubbing under any conditions. This is always my biggest concern with such a modification, thus I consider the functionality to be mostly unchanged.
Originally Posted by 1stgear
@loxxrider Great stance! I want to do this mod so bad, but I think I'd be scraping all the time with no FAL.
I do think this is valid to be honest... There are plenty of speedbumps that I wouldn't want to go over without the FAL now. Same applies to entries/exits from shopping plazas, etc. The FAL is definitely necessary to avoid scraping on lots of these.
Maybe more like a balance or an optimization of form and function. With the slightly lowered ride height and spacers, you get better form, while still retaining all the function of the stock setup (aside from the reduced ground clearance). The spacers do not induce any rubbing under any conditions. This is always my biggest concern with such a modification, thus I consider the functionality to be mostly unchanged.
All the function of stock? It won't ride as well, it's not matched with the factory dampers, and you had to add the weight of FAL now just to clear small bumps.
I'm all for lowering, I have Ohlins on my retired DD that lowered it a bunch. However lowering obviously sacrifices suspension travel, and with a Macpherson has greater implications for dynamic alignment. Macpherson doesn't have linear dynamic alignment and when you alter the ride height you are changing where on the curve you are operating. Maybe not enough for it to matter in your use case, but there is an effect.
Apart from that there is following correct procedure for lowering a car, doing it incorrectly can have implications for bushings, tires, and handling. That's all beside the point, but I find it often contributes to peoples poor impressions of lowering.
All the function of stock? It won't ride as well, it's not matched with the factory dampers, and you had to add the weight of FAL now just to clear small bumps.
I beg to differ. It rides about the same as stock (I can't tell any difference), but has progressive rate springs for on the rear end as opposed to linear rate in the stock setup. Progressive rate springs usually actually improve ride quality compared to linear rate, so not only do the vibrations physics contradict your assertion, but so does my first-hand experience. Maybe my hind end isn't as sensitive as others, but I'm usually pretty perceptive of small changes in ride, noise, etc. with my vehicles. I reached out to H&R over the phone to get some clarification about the rates, but they were not willing to divulge any quantitative details. They just said that they aim for a "slight" increase over stock in most cases. That combined with that fact that the rears are now progressive instead of linear probably explains why it feels roughly the same as stock to me.
As far as matching with factory dampers goes, the fact that one can select the amount of damping via the switch for PASM, means that there is a range of spring rate and damping that is acceptable. A class in vibrations or controls theory would reveal the same. You don't want to go too crazy (like doubling the spring rate for a given damper), but small differentials in spring rate like 10 or 20% will be well within the capabilities of a given damper and not at risk of overheating/damaging the seals. It's obvious when the spring/damper combination is not ideal, but in this case the outcome feels neither under or overdamped. The silver bullet in this argument is the fact that Porsche uses the same exact damper (same part number) for the base, S, GTS, and even the Turbo, Turbo S, Sport Classic (and even the Dakar!) despite them all having substantially different spring rates. Damping rate might be different based on what the car commands to the struts, but the physical part is the same. GT3 and GT3RS have different dampers.
The one area where I'm definitely giving up some functionality is in the suspension travel as Mike mentioned. So far, this has not been an issue for me, but that remains to be seen over a longer period of time. Suspension geometry for a mild drop like this will not be negatively impacted (or at least not notably so) and an alignment will minimize any potential problems further.
FAL doesn't add much weight to the front end in the 992. It's a much nicer system than in the previous generations, and I would have spec'd it regardless of plans to lower or not. It's come in handy many times both before and after the H&Rs.
In the end, you're right... some functionality is indeed lost from stock, but its all down to reduced suspension travel and reduced ride height (which was the goal of this modification). Otherwise, the springs have resulted in a very OEM+ experience in terms of ride quality and spring/damper matching. I also meant for that comment to apply to the spacers as they have had no ill effect on the driving experience or the car itself either. As a package, its really a nice upgrade (subjective) with very few drawbacks.
I beg to differ. It rides about the same as stock (I can't tell any difference), but has progressive rate springs for on the rear end as opposed to linear rate in the stock setup. Progressive rate springs usually actually improve ride quality compared to linear rate, so not only do the vibrations physics contradict your assertion, but so does my first-hand experience. Maybe my hind end isn't as sensitive as others, but I'm usually pretty perceptive of small changes in ride, noise, etc. with my vehicles. I reached out to H&R over the phone to get some clarification about the rates, but they were not willing to divulge any quantitative details. They just said that they aim for a "slight" increase over stock in most cases. That combined with that fact that the rears are now progressive instead of linear probably explains why it feels roughly the same as stock to me.
As far as matching with factory dampers goes, the fact that one can select the amount of damping via the switch for PASM, means that there is a range of spring rate and damping that is acceptable. A class in vibrations or controls theory would reveal the same. You don't want to go too crazy (like doubling the spring rate for a given damper), but small differentials in spring rate like 10 or 20% will be well within the capabilities of a given damper and not at risk of overheating/damaging the seals. It's obvious when the spring/damper combination is not ideal, but in this case the outcome feels neither under or overdamped. The silver bullet in this argument is the fact that Porsche uses the same exact damper (same part number) for the base, S, GTS, and even the Turbo, Turbo S, Sport Classic (and even the Dakar!) despite them all having substantially different spring rates. Damping rate might be different based on what the car commands to the struts, but the physical part is the same. GT3 and GT3RS have different dampers.
The one area where I'm definitely giving up some functionality is in the suspension travel as Mike mentioned. So far, this has not been an issue for me, but that remains to be seen over a longer period of time. Suspension geometry for a mild drop like this will not be negatively impacted (or at least not notably so) and an alignment will minimize any potential problems further.
FAL doesn't add much weight to the front end in the 992. It's a much nicer system than in the previous generations, and I would have spec'd it regardless of plans to lower or not. It's come in handy many times both before and after the H&Rs.
In the end, you're right... some functionality is indeed lost from stock, but its all down to reduced suspension travel and reduced ride height (which was the goal of this modification). Otherwise, the springs have resulted in a very OEM+ experience in terms of ride quality and spring/damper matching. I also meant for that comment to apply to the spacers as they have had no ill effect on the driving experience or the car itself either. As a package, its really a nice upgrade (subjective) with very few drawbacks.
My man went into attorney mode on this response hahaha...
I love a lowered car and the H&R's look great. Putting them on my list of upgrades for my Carrera T!
Sharing a few pictures of my new T with recently installed H&R Sport springs and 15mm F / 12mm R spacers.
I'm much happier with the look now compared to the stock setup. H&R got the ride height just right in my opinion and I think this is how Porsche would have set the ride height and wheel offsets if they didn't have to think about the "daily driver' use case for the T (which is entirely relevant). It's daily drivable like this, but I do absolutely utilize the front axle lift on almost every drive to ensure the front lip doesn't scrape something. Without knowing the exact specs, this seems much closer to the stance that you get with a GT product which has always struck me as ideal. It's not perfectly flush, but the gap is minimized and seems like a function over form kind of result which I like.
My gut was right. Knew it wasn’t just your wakeboard u like to ride low, ha. Been contemplating getting H&Rs for awhile. Seems better drop than Eibach. Like that these are progressive springs. Much better than when in my younger days we’d just heat/cut coils, ha. Not sure of longer term impact on shocks…but maybe moot point if I’m considering replacing with a GT car eventually. Looks gr8 man! 👍
Clearly you've put a lot of thought into your decision and you're happy with the result. That's all that matters. Car looks awesome!
Worst case scenario, if the shocks get tired I will upgrade to some coil overs later
Originally Posted by ECNJ
My gut was right. Knew it wasn’t just your wakeboard u like to ride low, ha. Been contemplating getting H&Rs for awhile. Seems better drop than Eibach. Like that these are progressive springs. Much better than when in my younger days we’d just heat/cut coils, ha. Not sure of longer term impact on shocks…but maybe moot point if I’m considering replacing with a GT car eventually. Looks gr8 man! 👍
Haha I have been down the coilover road many times in the past and usually I adjust them one time and then never touch them again. But since the H&R springs seemed to have the exact ride height I wanted (with minimal change to spring rate) this seemed like a really nice and simple solution to try out for a while. Definitely much better than cut coils I really don't think shocks will leave the building early, but I will be sure to inform the group if they do!
Underberg Green P6G (this car was featured in Excellence and is my favorite all-time 992T - just a masterpiece)
South Sea Blue Metallic 5SO (this car is also a stunner and owned by a RLer you may have heard of ... YOU!)
Maybe I'm the last one to realize this, but I just discovered that you can now change the icon of the "My PORSCHE" app to the exterior color of your car... I don't remember seeing that options in previous version, but I just upgrade to the latest version on the App Store (12.1.0) and I found the options in the SETTINGS menu. It's pretty cool.
Maybe I'm the last one to realize this, but I just discovered that you can now change the icon of the "My PORSCHE" app to the exterior color of your car... I don't remember seeing that options in previous version, but I just upgrade to the latest version on the App Store (12.1.0) and I found the options in the SETTINGS menu. It's pretty cool.
Maybe I'm the last one to realize this, but I just discovered that you can now change the icon of the "My PORSCHE" app to the exterior color of your car... I don't remember seeing that options in previous version, but I just upgrade to the latest version on the App Store (12.1.0) and I found the options in the SETTINGS menu. It's pretty cool.
Totally silly, but thanks. Chalk level unlocked. 🤣🤣🤣
09-03-2024, 01:42 PM
I really don't think shocks will leave the building early, but I will be sure to inform the group if they do!
