Denny Swift

There has been lots of discussion on resetting the oil service light and appropriate devices for doing so (Autel for example), but I’m wondering if the oil service is the only scheduled maintenance that will trigger an annoying dash notification. For example, will the “service required” light get triggered by other scheduled maintenance such as spark plugs, cabin filters, brake flush, and air filters? Jeeze, I hope not. I’m talking about scheduled maintenance only as opposed to failures or malfunctions.

Michael T

I had the free oil change only at the one year mark. When I had the oil change done at the two year anniversary, in addition to the $1,000 for another oil change, the dealer wanted to change the brake fluid. I chose to only have the oil done as the car had 3,500 miles total at two years. The dealer would not reset the service indicator all the way. I had my long time indy mechanic do it in less than five minutes.

This is a pure Porsche money grab. I had a couple Corvette C8’s that also take ten quarts of synthetic oil, they charge $140 for an oil change, not $1,000.

drcollie

There are different level scanners you can buy at different price points. Some require an annual subscription. On my Autel 808Bt< can even code with it, and of course change or reset any functions and diagnostic codes.

nyca

Look for some ads in your regional PCA magazine for independent shops, you are correct that these basic dealer service costs are crazy now.

S4tech75

I'd like to add some color to this since while some do, i think there are a lot of owners who dont understand fully why these services and repairs cost what they do. I feel a better understanding may lead to less cost-angst among owners. Disclosure- i come from the Service side of things.

So in the above case, owner has had the first 1 Yr/10k maintenance which was included in the new car purchase. Making the assumption this is a 992 or Cayman/boxster when discussing time to perform and procedures. Cayenne/Macan and Panamera can vary further for comparable maintenance level. This would indicate he is at the 2 yr service mark. Regardless of miles, this is an Interim maintenance that is due and a bi-annual brake flush. When the service resets are performed with PTG4 ( formerly PIWIS 3 up until as late as August 2023) on new gen sports cars there are multiple check boxes in the maintenance of service procedure. 1 is oil service ( annual), 1 is Inspection (interim/4 year), 1 is spark plugs ( 3 yrs turbo charged applications/gt's). There's also one for brake flush, tire sealant. Few others depending on varient/chassis type/ transmission type. When doing the service reset if you have log book option this is also relevant to procedure since the data will also be saved to pcm. Of note, new gen car service reset is burn once only meaning if you reset the wrong maintenance level vs procedure actual performed it's set forever ( technically there IS a way to correct it once but must be done before the next service is performed but you don't want to be there. Otherwise youre replacing a $7k instrument cluster).

The owner above who only authorized an annual when it's due for an interim rightly should not get a reset for both annual and inspection ( equaling an Interim) since the specified service was not performed. From a dealer or indy perspective resetting maintenance regardless of which level without performing the specified service is a liability and at some level can be a liability for warranty. Also of note, the data is also burned to the control unit when service is reset detailing who performed it with dealer and PTG4 numbers- In our case we have the only Genuine PTG4 in the country out of dealer hands and its linked to PPN as at the dealer. The service data can be read at any point moving forward and if theres not an invoice that matches the reset ( when setting maintenance PTG4 also requires you to input the repair order number*) this is, again, a liability for the service provider.

From a strictly mechanical perspective, an Annual should take about 2 hours, an Interim about 3 if the Tech is taking his time and not cutting any corners. Procedurally the car needs a good test drive with roadtest inspections. Needs to be far enough to get to speed verify no vibrations, drifts etc)Then bring it in the facility. Then rack the car. Perform all inspections and function tests. Oh you have a spray jet off angle or a little clogged. Ok clear with compressed air, verify volume, go get adjuster for spray location adjust recheck probably adjust at least once more. Verify tire load settings, set tire pressures correctly. Now you can start the specified mechanical maintenance procedures. Interim will be oil service and both cabin filters. Initial oil fill will be close but not perfect. Once done with the mechanical side, you have to go in with PTG4 after mounting the correct battery maintainer. Takes probably 10-12 minutes just to get through initialization, running a VAL. Then check and document any faults in all control units. Then code for services performed. Now you can perform the oil level test with oil filling procedure. This takes a while and may need to be run through 2 or possibly 3 times to get oil level precisely perfect. You'd be surprised but even when the tool tells you your done and perfect you better go drive the car again, make sure you're at a solid 220f oil temp or better and verify fill 1 more time. Get it slightly overfilled and youre draining some. Hot. When done right, none of this is fluff, its real time. If all this sounds like some amount more than 2 or 3 hours that's not entirely uncommon start to finish.

Average dealer is 300-350 an hour. ( FWIW, the average price for a plumber or electrician in Florida is 270-290/hr and those guys have next to nothing in overhead in comparison)That's not arbitrary. Labor charges at a dealer or high performing indy take into account not just tech wages and taxes, IRAs Healthcare, workers comp, facility costs the list goes on. Amoritized costs of workshop equipment is also a big factor much of which has a limited life span before it has to be purchased again and parts profit cant cover it all. JUST 1 easy example is the PTG4. Our price is the same as what the dealer pays per unit. First year tool and subscription just under $41k, then every year thereafter the subscription and licensing fees are a hair over $30,920.22 The testers have an average life span of 5-6 years. Weve had them all. The subscription fees always go up when the new tool cycle arrives. The prior PIWIS 3 subscription was somewhere around $26k a year. These are all just costs. Every facility needs to make enough profit to pay for this huge pile of stuff just to operate at a level that will support the client at a factory level and still have a reasonable amount left to bank.

As far as a ford dealer charging 140/ for a service, there's not a case where they make any money on this service. Often this is known as a loss leader. It gets you in the door in hopes other services or repairs can be sold. Audi often has something similar in the form of fast-lane service. And I can guarantee at minimum the Ford dealer labor and tooling costs are significantly lower than costs to run a Porsche facility.

Without any perspective the cost is just a number. Hope this helps the general knowledge base.

nyca

I understand your technical points - but who really benefits from all these electronics to track maintenance intervals? As an owner, I still keep a paper log book in the glovebox - I really don't need an elaborate system to tell me the oil needs to be changed once a year and the brake fluid every two years, etc. It used to be that people simply used a table in the owners manual and kept a paper maintenance logbook. Now its all electronic and contained in a car and the only benefactor of that is the dealer service departments, I get nothing out of it as the owner - plus I have to buy a $400 scan tool to DIY.

S4tech75

For your specific purposes maybe not much benefit. Certainly there is the digital vs analog discussion. I would say the benefits to the owner would, both while under warranty and also if/ when limited service actions occur in future, be that it cuts down on 1 part of PCNA's verification process time when they are verifying warranty coverage or good will coverage (991.1 GT3 as an example). Both with the tool, in the pcm and on PPN that data can rapidly be verified.
I applaud keeping good records. Not enough do. What this does do is requires service to be recorded permanently. Cant tell you how many maintenance booklets on older chassis we see with no stamps or notes. Often cars come in with no records whatsoever. What service should be determined as due? If there or no records or documentations the risk of a vehicle getting quoted for maintenance it doesnt need goes up. A benefit is in the vehicle being only serviced for what it needs. Lots of owners may not be as knowledgeable as you are and just say ok to a 4 year maintenance when it only may have needed interim.
When buying a car with no records several years down the road this helps also. Youd also be surprised at how often you hear, well i didnt drive the miles so i dont want to do xyz prescribed maintenance. Certainly an owner prerogative but not maintaining to factory spec. The service due notifications may in some case be enough to keep certain owners maintaining their cars properly which ultimately is best for current AND future owners as well as the marque.

Bluehighways

There are two different time and mileage driven "Maintenance Reminder" messages that can be shown. One is for an "Oil Change" and the other is for "Maintenance" which encompasses more services than just an Oil Change. To dismiss either (or both) a Scan Tool that supports this capability is required. I use an Autel MK808S, but there are others that can do this as well.

HOTCHKIS

Brake fluid should be changed every 2 years due to the humidity!

drcollie

Humidity has nothing to do with brake fluid changes. Brake fluid is Hygroscopic, it attracts moisture no matter the environment. As moisture enters the fluid, the boiling point of that brake fluid deteriorates from the original spec.

Let's say your DOT 4 brake fluid has a fresh-out-of-the-can boiling point of 446 degrees (this is called the Dry boiling point) and after absorbing 3.7% water that degrades to 311 degrees (this is called the Wet boiling point). When brake fluid boils, your brakes go away - they stop working. The harder and more frequent you use your brakes the hotter everything gets, including the brake fluid. So on a track day, in an Advanced Run Group, you can get close to 350 or so on your brake fluid temp. The last place you want your brakes to out south is coming down a straightaway at 150 mph and T1 is a 45 MPH corner. That's why track junkies change their brake fluid 2 to 4 times per year, and at higher levels look to cool brakes with air scoops and cross drilled rotors, etc.

You won't hit those temps on the street, but if you go canyon racing you might. So it's a good idea to understand why you change your brake fluid and cycle it. Two years is an arbitrary time selected because few people are going to actually measure their brake fluid temp with a tool like this:

https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_In...BoClRwQAvD_BwE

Michael T

Use of the car also drive service intervals. My car had 3,300 miles at the two year mark and has not been tracked. On prior cars, I have had a brake fluid changed at three years. In two years of service and no track time, two oil and filter changes are more than enough service.

981KMAN

Great discussion regarding documentation of maintenance!

As a new 992 owner I am interested in learning more about the "PCM Log Book"? I am one of those folks who keeps full documentation on everything done to my vehicles and have a binder filled with invoices and receipts on each vehicle. I also do much of my own maintenance work, and choose to change fluids more frequently then Porsche states.

How can this "PCM Logbook" be accessed? I have a few bi-directional OBDII tools and can "code" lots of features, yet have no knowledge of the new PCM Logbook. Any info would be appreciated.