Jarm

Hey gang, I'm at a little bit of a loss here and I would love to hear of others experience or suggestions. I've dropped the car off at my dealership, and thus far their response has been "seems normal".

I have a 2023 manual T I picked up brand new in July of last year, it now has 10k on the odometer. Ever since I first picked up the car, if the transmission is cold, downshifting into first (as if I'm rolling up to a stop sign) while moving is a challenge. It will often feel like it gets stuck halfway into the gate and, so as to not force it, I'll pull it out of the gate and put it back in. It usually goes in just fine the second time. More recently however, if it gets stuck in that in between area, with the clutch fully depressed, I can feel a gear smacking against the shift lever. This only happens while the car is moving, which makes me think it's related to the rotation of the wheels, and whatever that spins, rather than being related to engine speed.

Now that I'm familiar with the feeling, I can pretty reliably reproduce the grinding in between gates for any gear, as long as the transmission is cold. Even if I'm shifting normally (and not trying to trigger it), I can briefly feel something smacking the lever while it's moving into the shift gate, but isn't fully inserted into the gear. That feeling happens at any temperature level, but isn't as aggressive as the cold grinding I described. From my searching, I've seen a good number of people talking about old Carrera's being difficult to shift into first, or even grinding while going into first, if coming from any gear besides second, or the car is not already at a stop. But this grinding or sensation of a gear smacking the shift lever happening on ANY gear seems to be at minimal slightly different.

That said, I'm not entirely sure how to proceed with these guys. I was able to semi-reproduce the issue with the service lead while the transmission was hot when I dropped it off. The service department is saying that you shouldn't shift into first from anything besides a stop, and they're trying to say that this is normal behavior. I've had about 10 years of manual driving experience prior to this car, and while I wouldn't say that hanging out in the land between two gears is entirely normal usage, I do not believe any kind of grinding or feeling cogs should be considered "normal".

Ikone

I learned not to shift into first unless stopped. I have always followed this rule.

Jarm

Totally fair. It seems odd to me, but I'll respect it. However, that doesn't really touch on the problem of feeling grinding between all gates now.

Ikone

I misunderstood that part. Yes, that shouldn't be happening at all. I'd definitely would have them check into it.

Gary12000

do you blip the throttle when downshifting into first? for a smooth shift i would think that it is prudent to do this, this is something we used to call Double de-clutch, it was done on non syncro manual shift boxes to assist in rev matching the gears and if done correctly helps the gears to slip into place... now to be clear you should be able to shift down into first whilst coming to a stop to be ready to move in a safety situation, i think to be told you have to come to a complete stop is poppycock...its possible your transmission just doesn't have enough miles on it yet, but hmmm seems iffy, i would also say whats your driving style, are you lugging the engine in second which would load up the gearbox as you slow down and might prevent smooth operation?

My 992 is PDK but my 996 is manual and i'm from the UK and we all about the manual trans back in the day, you would think gear tolerances good synchros and 10,000 miles would all make for a smooth gearshift, do you have a driver/buddy other than yourself that you would trust to give it a go and see what they think? if its sticky and doesn't feel right i would ask the dealer them to investigate further perhaps elevate the issue to Porsche NA. they have a help line you could try..
i did this to a dealer when they were dragging there feet on a service contract refund it was about 6 grand and id be waiting several months, after i sent in an email to Porsche NA i gto a phone call apologizing and a check within a week.

Idea!! drain the gearbox oil and send it for analysis, you could ask the dealer to do this to see whats going on..
or a good indy could likely assist you with this but you'd have to pay out of pocket...,

Jarm

Hey Gary! I appreciate your response. Just to clarify, all of these operations are unrelated to the actual release of the clutch and subsequent application of throttle. Everything happens while the clutch is depressed and I'm physically moving the gear lever between the gates. But to your questions:
When I start releasing the clutch I do, but not when the clutch is fully depressed and I'm moving the shifter. The double de-clutch is interesting, I'll read a little more about it.
Preach. It sounds silly to me, but I've seen lots of people mention it works the first gear synchro really hard, so I'm willing to accept it.
Good question! I never thought about it in this context, and more about how smooth I can make the shifts. I'll usually let off the accelerator, pause, let the revs drop slightly, and then press the clutch in.

I'll have a buddy give it a go and see what he says. If he agrees, I guess elevating to Porsche NA is the path forward. Taking it to a trustworthy indy is a great idea, but I really would prefer not to have to pay out of pocket . That's insanely frustrating.

Riz

I just drove my friends 992 T manual - it has close to 2k miles. The shifter was similar to what the OP was referring to. It was tough getting into the gates especially in 1, 2, 3. Gears 4-7 better. I thought it may just be because not broken in. It was properly warmed up and also temps in the 70's-80's. For comparison we both drove each others cars. Mine is a 991.2 Carrera S manual with about 3500 miles. My 991.2 is buttery smooth in shifting. The 992 had some bad rattles also and felt lower quality to me even though it looks more upscale in there. The T owner agreed and liked the 991.2 better overall in feel and feedback, size, handling etc. Both similarly equipped as far as rear axle steering, sport pasm, etc. Tire pressures also set as per door label. So I don't know...except I am extremely happy I kept my 991.2! I was offered and thought about getting the 992T.

jhenson29

Mine was tough to shift into lower gears while moving in the winter when it was cold outside and car was still cold. It was fine if I was stopped or after the car warmed up. It was also fine before and after winter in warmer months.

Ikone

No one is saying you MUST stop to get into first, but it's how I learned and if you follow that rule then you won't have any issues (or shouldn't). The issue is if you are going just a tad too fast for 1st gear, you will have issues downshifting from 2nd into 1st. You'll feel it. So imho it just doesn't make sense. Unless you're doing a 5mph hairpin on a track, why bother?
It's obvious there is something up with OP's transmission. Either it's been like this or his technique caused issues. IDK.

alaris

Don’t downshift into first. Problem solved. I’ve never driven a 911 that wanted to be downshifted into first. From longhoods to present.

Now that’s a different and serious issue. But I stand by not downshifting into first.

tna3

This is what you need to do. Almost every manual transmission I’ve driven requires this dropping down to 1st gear it’s not just a Porsche thing. If you don’t like rev matching then use one of the sport modes so the ECU does it for you. In general rev matching will also increase your clutch life.

shack993

Few things. These may or may not help.
1) Have to separate the issues with 1st gear from gears 2nd+. Your attempt at rolling into 1st would be considered "unique" behavior.
2) In 2nd+ gears, if this is happening, seems a bit odd. I know that many people say that the 992 manual is much "clickier" than the 991. Some people like this, some don't. I also know that there are some plastic bits in the linkage that get people all ruffled up and make them transition to a numeric shifter.

Maybe you have a broken plastic bit?

garthg

I have 10k miles. Mine has always been smooth going into first, whether blipping or not (usually, not).
It sounds to me like maybe your clutch is not disengaging completely.

Type 2

We have (or had) two 1978 911SCs, both of which have syncronized 915 gear boxes, and shifting down into first gear while rolling into a stop is not a problem, and there is no grinding of gear sets. Did you learn on Detroit iron with straight cut gears?

Mike818

Unless you double clutch, down shifting into first while moving does put a lot of load on the first gear synchro.

I was also taught not to downshift into first while moving