COBB VS. M-Engineering
11-29-2023, 02:11 PM
#1
COBB VS. M-Engineering
Anyone try both yet? Going to drop some info below to start a comparison thread!
I'm super curious how they compare to the M-engineering standard right now. I'm currently on M-engineering stage 2 in my base model 911, but I am hesitating doing the PDK tune as it would lock me into the M-engineering environment for good since its not compatible with other solutions (and for sure will void my warranty).
Curious to see if anyone has tried on the 992 yet, and what your opinions on the whole market shift after this announcement! Really want to see feature-parity from COBB considering M-engineering has some nice-to-haves like:
1. Free-revving to red-line in Neutral
2. Binary Exhaust valve control (full open valve not just cracked open)
3. Cold start/cat heating sequence delete
And of course would love to see a PDK tune we can flash and adjust from our phones like those spoiled BMW guys.
https://www.cobbtuning.com/products/...carrera-s-gts/
MSRP: $1,895
Stage1 COBB tune for the 922 base model!
(93 Octane)
PEAK STAGE 1 HP: 429.2HP
PEAK STAGE 1 TQ: 453.2TQ
https://www.m-engineering.us/collect...he-992-carrera
MSRP: $2,495
Stage 1 M-Engineering tune for the base model 992!
(93 Octane)
PEAK STAGE 1 HP: 419.37HP
PEAK STAGE 1 TQ: 449.52TQ
So far support and the calibration have been fantastic. I really love that free-revving feature and use it to terrorize local car meets and overpasses.
I do notice that on stage 2 I get some minor clutch slip (which is well documented). I have been thinking for a long time that I need to flash my PDK for higher clutch pressures, and probably some stickier tires to go with it.
I do really miss being able to flash new maps from my phone in a few seconds (I came from the MHD world). I also really would like on the fly map switching or even Ethanol content sensing as some nice to have features. (Maybe I'll get rolling anti-lag next Christmas?)
Anyway the only reason my brain has been stuck on this topic is because of the COBB announcement recently for the 992. M-engineering is trying to take the walled garden approach and I'm sure that will work well for them, I just don't want to be stuck taking my TCU out of the car and flashing it so I have to use M-Engineering forever. I want to be able to flash back to stock for dealership visits, and tweak certain settings if I wind up getting too aggressive with the TCU map. I have seen COBB offer PDK flashing for previous generations of 911, so hoping we will see it soon.
I also know the team at M-Engineering is on the cusp of releasing their phone-flashing new hardware interface:
So I'll drop back in here if a lot of this changes during this drop. I did get to briefly speak with the M-Engineering team about it at RR7 this year, they didn't confirm anything, just that it was coming "soon."
I think COBB bringing competition to the 992 tuning space is great for all of us. It always seems no real progress gets made on new platforms until someone comes in and undercuts the one group that actually has an exploit. It seems that COBB has done that this time. Clearly they beat M-Engineering in pricing and ever so slightly in peak performance (which says nothing about drive-ability).
COBB is still missing critical features before they can truly be the better value. I'm sure someone will have to shoot first in this standoff. Without feature parity from COBB I don't think I would choose it as a long term solution just yet, and certainly not without a proper PDK tune would I go to the power levels I am currently at with COBB.
That being said, I would love to run some experiments. Does anyone have an old Accessport they want to send over? I would be happy to pay COBB the upgrade fee and give their stage 1 tune a try! I just don't want to commit another $2k to a platform I don't think I would use permanently quite yet.
This all sounds like a fantastic idea for a Youtube Video!
That being said... COBB is based in Austin TX so I could potentially drop by for a visit to ask more questions and build more on this story. Thanks everyone who stuck through for this long read, and special thanks to anyone below leaving their opinions or experience with either of these tuning suites!
-Gilbert
I'm super curious how they compare to the M-engineering standard right now. I'm currently on M-engineering stage 2 in my base model 911, but I am hesitating doing the PDK tune as it would lock me into the M-engineering environment for good since its not compatible with other solutions (and for sure will void my warranty).
Curious to see if anyone has tried on the 992 yet, and what your opinions on the whole market shift after this announcement! Really want to see feature-parity from COBB considering M-engineering has some nice-to-haves like:
1. Free-revving to red-line in Neutral
2. Binary Exhaust valve control (full open valve not just cracked open)
3. Cold start/cat heating sequence delete
And of course would love to see a PDK tune we can flash and adjust from our phones like those spoiled BMW guys.
COBB ACCESSPORT
https://www.cobbtuning.com/products/...carrera-s-gts/
MSRP: $1,895
Stage1 COBB tune for the 922 base model!
(93 Octane)
PEAK STAGE 1 HP: 429.2HP
PEAK STAGE 1 TQ: 453.2TQ
M-ENGINEERING: M-TUNER SUITE
https://www.m-engineering.us/collect...he-992-carrera
MSRP: $2,495
Stage 1 M-Engineering tune for the base model 992!
(93 Octane)
PEAK STAGE 1 HP: 419.37HP
PEAK STAGE 1 TQ: 449.52TQ
My Experience with M-Engineering:
So far support and the calibration have been fantastic. I really love that free-revving feature and use it to terrorize local car meets and overpasses.
I do notice that on stage 2 I get some minor clutch slip (which is well documented). I have been thinking for a long time that I need to flash my PDK for higher clutch pressures, and probably some stickier tires to go with it.
I do really miss being able to flash new maps from my phone in a few seconds (I came from the MHD world). I also really would like on the fly map switching or even Ethanol content sensing as some nice to have features. (Maybe I'll get rolling anti-lag next Christmas?)
Anyway the only reason my brain has been stuck on this topic is because of the COBB announcement recently for the 992. M-engineering is trying to take the walled garden approach and I'm sure that will work well for them, I just don't want to be stuck taking my TCU out of the car and flashing it so I have to use M-Engineering forever. I want to be able to flash back to stock for dealership visits, and tweak certain settings if I wind up getting too aggressive with the TCU map. I have seen COBB offer PDK flashing for previous generations of 911, so hoping we will see it soon.
I also know the team at M-Engineering is on the cusp of releasing their phone-flashing new hardware interface:
So I'll drop back in here if a lot of this changes during this drop. I did get to briefly speak with the M-Engineering team about it at RR7 this year, they didn't confirm anything, just that it was coming "soon."
Final Arm-Chair Conclusions:
I think COBB bringing competition to the 992 tuning space is great for all of us. It always seems no real progress gets made on new platforms until someone comes in and undercuts the one group that actually has an exploit. It seems that COBB has done that this time. Clearly they beat M-Engineering in pricing and ever so slightly in peak performance (which says nothing about drive-ability).
COBB is still missing critical features before they can truly be the better value. I'm sure someone will have to shoot first in this standoff. Without feature parity from COBB I don't think I would choose it as a long term solution just yet, and certainly not without a proper PDK tune would I go to the power levels I am currently at with COBB.
That being said, I would love to run some experiments. Does anyone have an old Accessport they want to send over? I would be happy to pay COBB the upgrade fee and give their stage 1 tune a try! I just don't want to commit another $2k to a platform I don't think I would use permanently quite yet.
This all sounds like a fantastic idea for a Youtube Video!
That being said... COBB is based in Austin TX so I could potentially drop by for a visit to ask more questions and build more on this story. Thanks everyone who stuck through for this long read, and special thanks to anyone below leaving their opinions or experience with either of these tuning suites!
-Gilbert
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11-29-2023, 05:17 PM
#2
In my experience with Cobb OTS maps they are good but can definitely use improvement (GT-R and Macan GTS). However, the advantage is lots of reputable tuners use Cobb for custom tunes which can be tailored for any and all mods. We had custom tunes on both Cobb vehicles and were very happy with them.
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32bitsofGil (11-29-2023)
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32bitsofGil (11-29-2023)
11-29-2023, 05:24 PM
#4
This is where my mind has been at. I am also in search for a more aggressive tune for more pops and bangs with some light flames to compliment my catless setup. I think it would be easier to find this with COBB's platform and all the custom tuners out there for it.
11-29-2023, 08:57 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
The Cobb maps are very conservative and in my experience, warranty friendly, they are also 100% reversible and saves your cars stock map for that process.
Think of the cobb stock tune as a fuel map, because that’s what it is - nice and conservative with a noticeable power at the seat.
If You want more, you can buy a custom Cobb tune from many other tuners that use the bones of the Cobb software and hardware as the upload method.
M engineering is more like a “custom” map without actually be tailored custom to the car, they move limits and stock values which can be easily enticing for those that seek to change how the car behaves stock: such as always sport mode etc.
They are both different flavours of tuning and the best for power will always be a dyno session but that is incredibly expensive and I’ve done that too, but that’s for money races - where podium = money/voucher/tires and not really a thing to do for a street car unless that is just what you want or the hardware you’re running demands it.
Think of the cobb stock tune as a fuel map, because that’s what it is - nice and conservative with a noticeable power at the seat.
If You want more, you can buy a custom Cobb tune from many other tuners that use the bones of the Cobb software and hardware as the upload method.
M engineering is more like a “custom” map without actually be tailored custom to the car, they move limits and stock values which can be easily enticing for those that seek to change how the car behaves stock: such as always sport mode etc.
They are both different flavours of tuning and the best for power will always be a dyno session but that is incredibly expensive and I’ve done that too, but that’s for money races - where podium = money/voucher/tires and not really a thing to do for a street car unless that is just what you want or the hardware you’re running demands it.
11-30-2023, 01:36 PM
#6
The Cobb maps are very conservative and in my experience, warranty friendly, they are also 100% reversible and saves your cars stock map for that process.
Think of the cobb stock tune as a fuel map, because that’s what it is - nice and conservative with a noticeable power at the seat.
If You want more, you can buy a custom Cobb tune from many other tuners that use the bones of the Cobb software and hardware as the upload method.
M engineering is more like a “custom” map without actually be tailored custom to the car, they move limits and stock values which can be easily enticing for those that seek to change how the car behaves stock: such as always sport mode etc.
They are both different flavours of tuning and the best for power will always be a dyno session but that is incredibly expensive and I’ve done that too, but that’s for money races - where podium = money/voucher/tires and not really a thing to do for a street car unless that is just what you want or the hardware you’re running demands it.
Think of the cobb stock tune as a fuel map, because that’s what it is - nice and conservative with a noticeable power at the seat.
If You want more, you can buy a custom Cobb tune from many other tuners that use the bones of the Cobb software and hardware as the upload method.
M engineering is more like a “custom” map without actually be tailored custom to the car, they move limits and stock values which can be easily enticing for those that seek to change how the car behaves stock: such as always sport mode etc.
They are both different flavours of tuning and the best for power will always be a dyno session but that is incredibly expensive and I’ve done that too, but that’s for money races - where podium = money/voucher/tires and not really a thing to do for a street car unless that is just what you want or the hardware you’re running demands it.
I am excited about the idea of the custom COBB tune quite a bit, given I could more quickly switch maps right now than M-Engineering. I guess the main thing is I'm just not satisfied 100% with aggression of my current stage 2 Map. I know the OTS maps are designed for most owners, and I understand Mitch and the team being hesitant to turn things up with their previous experience witnessing the wrath of the EPA.
I don't think I would be switching 100% since I am quite the fan of some of the features M-Engineering offers outside of the calibration (Exhaust valve control, Free-Revving). But given the cheap chance to try I would love to test out the Stage 1 OTS from COBB. I was already thinking of scaling my car back to Stage 1 M-Engineering anyway because my trans slipping.
I really want OBD flashing for our PDK before I make a move to anything outside of that really.
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12-01-2023, 09:55 PM
#8
12-01-2023, 10:00 PM
#9
Three Wheelin'
As has been discussed, the APR tune does not allow the user to flash between stock and tunes without going through a dealer and paying a fee each time. That's a no go for me since I would always switch to stock tune for track day events. It may be a great tune and a great company but they need to figure out a way to switch back and forth easily.
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AlterZgo (12-04-2023)
12-02-2023, 07:10 AM
#10
Rennlist Member
I like how Cobb can be unmarried and resold down the line. Agreed the tune is conservative and not 100% optimized but the Cobb tunes are still a nice improvement over stock.
12-02-2023, 09:32 AM
#11
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12-02-2023, 09:56 AM
#12
Rennlist Member
Is the Fabspeed tune not something worth mentioning in this thread?
12-02-2023, 10:13 AM
#13
Rennlist Member
I was running APR on my 992C2S with no cats. Never had a problem. Car run just like stock. Had it for almost 10k miles. Now I am getting a 992GTS and considering trying MEng. Read a lot of great reviews but also some that people have had issues with their tune. Has anyone here tried both APR and MEng?
12-04-2023, 06:29 PM
#14
As has been discussed, the APR tune does not allow the user to flash between stock and tunes without going through a dealer and paying a fee each time. That's a no go for me since I would always switch to stock tune for track day events. It may be a great tune and a great company but they need to figure out a way to switch back and forth easily.
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dg108 (12-05-2023)
