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As an aside, i read somewhere (maybe on here?) that one good reason to own a manual is - today’s youth can’t drive a manual…which is a good deterrent to being carjacked. 😳 😎
As an aside, i read somewhere (maybe on here?) that one good reason to own a manual is - today’s youth can’t drive a manual…which is a good deterrent to being carjacked. 😳 😎
dEfINiteLy a gOoD rEasOn! hA Ha hA stupid millennials
Today's predictions more often than not become tomorrow's retraction.
Think no MT in GT cars (see 991.2 GT3)
Or RWS makes for a better driver's car (see S/T)
4.0 Engline won'f fit a Boxter/Cayman body (see GTS 4.0/GT4/Spyder)
Deep breath. Sky is not falling. At least not today, or tomorrow.
I agree fully. However, there's something to be said for the percentage of manuals today compared to two decades ago. Porsche goes where the market goes. It's why it revived the manual. The question is, how long will that last?
My sales guy said I was the only person to order a manual in a T in my area. He said they were all waiting for a S and there just weren’t many allocations for those so they went PDK T.
Would be nice to be able to own a S/T with that combo or if they made that setup more widely available.
I don’t see why we can’t have a hybrid with a manual.
Combining a hybrid with no-lift-shift, the electric motor could keep pulling you forward when you shift, bridging the performance gap between the current manual and PDK cars.
I don’t see why we can’t have a hybrid with a manual.
Combining a hybrid with no-lift-shift, the electric motor could keep pulling you forward when you shift, bridging the performance gap between the current manual and PDK cars.
Packaging. Can't fit 10lbs of stuff in a 5lb. bag. The 992 PDK was built with hybridization in mind, see image below from Porsche.
This is not the case for the manual. Porsche does not have a manual that can hold the extra torque from the electric motor and due to the motor location, similar to what they did with the Panamera e Hybrid the location of electric motor will be sandwiched between the engine and the transmission (see below) - the current manual cannot accommodate the extra motor length which would throw off the geometry of the driveline components. The 992 PDK is a derivation of the Panamera PDK so this is the most logical solution. I assume batteries will be placed in the frunk, minimally increasing the load floor height.
This solution would give the 911 the ability to keep the option of having rear wheel drive or all wheel drive models. But I'm just a meager consumer goods product developer, time will tell what Porsche does here but this is my assumed most likely scenario.
If I were to wager a guess, and that's all it is, Porsche will have to go to a hybrid to meet ever-tightening emissions, its going to happen - who knows when? When the manual goes away it will be in the lower end 911's, the Base, "S", GTS, (and the Turbos already are PDK's) They will keep the specialty cars as a manual trans (no electric motors) for a few more years, such as GT3's and whatever limited edition they decide to roll out using the 4.0 engine. Marketing will milk that for several years and get as much as they can out of it, then those will eventually fade away just like carbs and chokes. You'll have at least four more years in 992.2 form to get a manual, but you may have to pay biggly in a limited edition car.
Ferrari made the move to two pedal cars back in 2006, when they produced only 30 manual 599's (20 to North America) and the rest were F1 trans. Apparently it was miserable to shift in a 599, and those cars sold at $ 15K less than their F1 brethren until one of those manual 599's went to auction at Amelia Island and brought $ 692.500. The 430 was the last of the manual Ferraris, with appx 10% of production being three pedal cars.
Porsche is going to be forced to follow the same path as Ferrari over time.
Packaging. Can't fit 10lbs of stuff in a 5lb. bag. The 992 PDK was built with hybridization in mind, see image below from Porsche.
This is not the case for the manual. Porsche does not have a manual that can hold the extra torque from the electric motor and due to the motor location, similar to what they did with the Panamera e Hybrid the location of electric motor will be sandwiched between the engine and the transmission (see below) - the current manual cannot accommodate the extra motor length which would throw off the geometry of the driveline components. The 992 PDK is a derivation of the Panamera PDK so this is the most logical solution. I assume batteries will be placed in the frunk, minimally increasing the load floor height.
This solution would give the 911 the ability to keep the option of having rear wheel drive or all wheel drive models. But I'm just a meager consumer goods product developer, time will tell what Porsche does here but this is my assumed most likely scenario.
Good to see the PDK is good for at least 590 lb-ft of torque for those that tune!
If I were to wager a guess, and that's all it is, Porsche will have to go to a hybrid to meet ever-tightening emissions, its going to happen - who knows when? When the manual goes away it will be in the lower end 911's, the Base, "S", GTS, (and the Turbos already are PDK's) They will keep the specialty cars as a manual trans (no electric motors) for a few more years, such as GT3's and whatever limited edition they decide to roll out using the 4.0 engine. Marketing will milk that for several years and get as much as they can out of it, then those will eventually fade away just like carbs and chokes. You'll have at least four more years in 992.2 form to get a manual, but you may have to pay biggly in a limited edition car.
A 911 Hybrid with Manual Transmission has already been done with the 991 platform. Vonnen 911 Hybrid
Isn't the manual gearbox/clutch shorter than a PDK transmission?, so I don't understand the "Packaging" issues other state. Yet the size of the battery, and weight of the car may be significant discussion points.
Starting from a clean sheet of paper, a hybrid - manual tranny 911 seems very possible.
Edit: And since the PDK has already been designed for Hybridization, so has the manual gearbox since all the fixed mounting points (engine to tranny, and rear wheel location) are the same. Thus the Manual Tranny has the same room for an Electric Pancake Motor as the PDK.
A 911 Hybrid with Manual Transmission has already been done with the 991 platform. Vonnen 911 Hybrid
Isn't the manual gearbox/clutch shorter than a PDK transmission?, so I don't understand the "Packaging" issues other state. Yet the size of the battery, and weight of the car may be significant discussion points.
Starting from a clean sheet of paper, a hybrid - manual tranny 911 seems very possible.
Edit: And since the PDK has already been designed for Hybridization, so has the manual gearbox since all the fixed mounting points (engine to tranny, and rear wheel location) are the same. Thus the Manual Tranny has the same room for an Electric Pancake Motor as the PDK.
I don’t think they could achieve the mechanical driving experience of a manual with an electric motor in between. Porsche is particular to driving experiences which is why cars like S/T exist.
I don’t think they could achieve the mechanical driving experience of a manual with an electric motor in between. Porsche is particular to driving experiences which is why cars like S/T exist.
I don't understand? I'm not trying to be difficult, yet you add the Electric Motor to the ICE, so the Electric Motor is attached to the crankshaft of the ICE, and is in-between the ICE and the Clutch.
The clutch and Gearbox "sees" more torque/power coming from the "Hybrid Engine" (ICE + Electric Motor). Should give the same "Feel" as if the ICE was larger & more powerful.
An article I read a while back when I was in Germany, can't find it online, stated that for emissions, I believe Porsche gets a credit as a Manufacturer. Make X number of electric/hybrids and they can make Y number of ICE cars. Thus, the big push for Taycans.
I think to keep the GT cars and certain ICE engines going on for longer, will have electrify more cars and hybridize some (911). If the hybridization adds full electric drive mode option a manual wouldn't work (can be done- German Engineering).
But easier to just make it PDK.
10-15-2023, 01:05 PM
