Opinions on T build please?
12-26-2022, 10:41 AM
#16
Well, the market research for used Porsches disagrees with you. The point is not directed at RAS in particular but to most all options other than possibly leather, MT or maybe SC on a PDK. Most other options are just irrelevant to resale. Like PSE, RAS will not make or break a resale in the used market. Why? The supply in the used market is just not sufficient to allow anyone to buy or reject a used car based on a detailed desired option list. Here, the OP cannot even find one acceptable 991.2T for sale in the entire country! You will never find that perfect desired option list on any used car. You are not being practical or realistic with your argument. There is no “configurator” for used cars. When you combine that fact with all the lithium battery problems documented here, RAS would be no bueno for me if buying new. Juice ain’t worth the squeeze. If you are looking for a used 992T or 991.2T with MT you will have very limited choices so you have to seriously consider any vehicle you find regardless color and regardless of RAS. So, why pay for it when it is problematic to begin with.
12-26-2022, 10:50 AM
#17
Well, the market research for used Porsches disagrees with you. The point is not directed at RAS in particular but to most all options other than possibly leather, MT or maybe SC on a PDK. Most other options are just irrelevant to resale. Like PSE, RAS will not make or break a resale in the used market. Why? The supply in the used market is just not sufficient to allow anyone to buy or reject a used car based on a detailed desired option list. Here, the OP cannot even find one acceptable 991.2T for sale in the entire country! You will never find that perfect desired option list on any used car. You are not being practical or realistic with your argument. There is no “configurator” for used cars. When you combine that fact with all the lithium battery problems documented here, RAS would be no bueno for me if buying new. Juice ain’t worth the squeeze. If you are looking for a used 992T or 991.2T with MT you will have very limited choices so you have to seriously consider any vehicle you find regardless color and regardless of RAS. So, why pay for it when it is problematic to begin with.
The following 4 users liked this post by derpington:
12-26-2022, 11:48 AM
#18
RAS helps fix some of the heaviness in the feeling of the 992 vs the 991. I like picking all the performance options on a performance oriented trim when possible.
I'd add the extended range fuel tank too if you track, it's nice not having to refuel as often throughout a track day.
I'd add the extended range fuel tank too if you track, it's nice not having to refuel as often throughout a track day.
12-26-2022, 12:31 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I don’t like the feel of Racetech/Alcantara, but that’s personal.
Also not much of a decal guy, so I would delete them as well. But if you’re doing that, I would also then just delete the rear model designation rather than change to 911. Most people will know it’s a 911.
I had a 991.2 Targa 4S and a 991.2 C4 cab before this C4S cab (and I only ordered the S to get MT). I’ll be surprised if you don’t like the 992. To me, it drives smaller than it feels if that makes any sense. And I loved the C4 cab - I just couldn’t turn down the offer my dealer made for the trade.
Also not much of a decal guy, so I would delete them as well. But if you’re doing that, I would also then just delete the rear model designation rather than change to 911. Most people will know it’s a 911.
I had a 991.2 Targa 4S and a 991.2 C4 cab before this C4S cab (and I only ordered the S to get MT). I’ll be surprised if you don’t like the 992. To me, it drives smaller than it feels if that makes any sense. And I loved the C4 cab - I just couldn’t turn down the offer my dealer made for the trade.
I would not de-badge. I doubt you'll "lose" money on a de-badge, but the T is a unique model and nearly impossible to differentiate otherwise. Better to keep the badge on there if you're thinking resale - might make it quicker to move.
Carrera S wheels - I'm not a fan, but if you like the design then that's all that matters. Wheels are not the place to cheap out - they make the car. If you love the Carrera S wheels, then get them.
White vs Chalk - both sell fine.
Exclusive tail-lights - whatever floats your boat.
Leather - resale is likely better with a leather interior. It takes a particular kind of person to go full strip on a 911 build.
I despise Race-tex steering wheels and would pass on cars that have them. At best, if I found a car with a Race-Tex wheel that I otherwise loved, I'd budget to have the wheel replaced. I'd get rid of that option if you're thinking resale. I doubt anyone would buy your car because of Race-tex, but there are definitely some who'd pass because of it.
I do agree with your general sentiments on 991 vs 992. The lack of buckets and silly little things like the strap door handle is a bummer.
Carrera S wheels - I'm not a fan, but if you like the design then that's all that matters. Wheels are not the place to cheap out - they make the car. If you love the Carrera S wheels, then get them.
White vs Chalk - both sell fine.
Exclusive tail-lights - whatever floats your boat.
Leather - resale is likely better with a leather interior. It takes a particular kind of person to go full strip on a 911 build.
I despise Race-tex steering wheels and would pass on cars that have them. At best, if I found a car with a Race-Tex wheel that I otherwise loved, I'd budget to have the wheel replaced. I'd get rid of that option if you're thinking resale. I doubt anyone would buy your car because of Race-tex, but there are definitely some who'd pass because of it.
I do agree with your general sentiments on 991 vs 992. The lack of buckets and silly little things like the strap door handle is a bummer.
I chose Carrera wheels because they're free and I don't like any of them. If I upgrade and sell, I won't get my money back. If I keep it, I'll spend my money on aftermarket.
Thanks for your input on the race tex wheel. Like I said above, very little seat time with one and just went on esthetics. I didn't know there were such strong feelings against it.
Regarding RAS:
I've decided to add it the basis of it being an option that is a) unique to the T and b) could help make the car feel like less of a pig based on comments here and other threads I've now read. Previously my position was to keep the 911 dynamics as pure as possible but when you really think about it, does that make sense when the car is now a mid engine and so large? I was sold when I read people who have aircooled cars and who drove 992s with and without RAS and mentioned that RAS made it feel more like their smaller aircooled cars.
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toph4242 (12-26-2022)
12-26-2022, 12:36 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Well, the market research for used Porsches disagrees with you. The point is not directed at RAS in particular but to most all options other than possibly leather, MT or maybe SC on a PDK. Most other options are just irrelevant to resale. Like PSE, RAS will not make or break a resale in the used market. Why? The supply in the used market is just not sufficient to allow anyone to buy or reject a used car based on a detailed desired option list. Here, the OP cannot even find one acceptable 991.2T for sale in the entire country! You will never find that perfect desired option list on any used car. You are not being practical or realistic with your argument. There is no “configurator” for used cars. When you combine that fact with all the lithium battery problems documented here, RAS would be no bueno for me if buying new. Juice ain’t worth the squeeze. If you are looking for a used 992T or 991.2T with MT you will have very limited choices so you have to seriously consider any vehicle you find regardless color and regardless of RAS. So, why pay for it when it is problematic to begin with.
12-26-2022, 06:12 PM
#21
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Scott P (12-27-2022)
12-26-2022, 06:39 PM
#22
If you want a good resale, just keep it simple with classic T colors, price not too high and technically up to date with options which are in forum highly recommended.
Regarding the RAS - for me the "killer arguments" are that you ultimately have to steer less in tight corners - where you usually have to reach over the steering wheel without rear-axle steering, and a significantly smaller turning circle is a blessing in Europe.
Regarding the RAS - for me the "killer arguments" are that you ultimately have to steer less in tight corners - where you usually have to reach over the steering wheel without rear-axle steering, and a significantly smaller turning circle is a blessing in Europe.
Last edited by Zetta; 12-26-2022 at 06:46 PM.
12-26-2022, 07:13 PM
#23
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I really like the "idea" behind the "T" but I absolutely hate and could never accept any Racetech/Alcantara in the car. In the (unlikely) event that it were possible to replace ALL of the Racetech/Alcantara with leather . . . here would be my $120,730 configuration: http://www.porsche-code.com/PPYEUPN1
12-27-2022, 02:21 AM
#24
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
From what I have heard most 911 people like the sunroof more. Dealers seem to spec that option. But it goes against the T ethos. I ordered the sunroof myself because of the more interior light and because of the black look outside on the roof. Don’t care much about the ethos. We all create our own ethos. But it’s a bit heavier yes. But for resale a sunroof usually will do much better than a carbon roof.
If you want a good resale, just keep it simple with classic T colors, price not too high and technically up to date with options which are in forum highly recommended.
Regarding the RAS - for me the "killer arguments" are that you ultimately have to steer less in tight corners - where you usually have to reach over the steering wheel without rear-axle steering, and a significantly smaller turning circle is a blessing in Europe.
Regarding the RAS - for me the "killer arguments" are that you ultimately have to steer less in tight corners - where you usually have to reach over the steering wheel without rear-axle steering, and a significantly smaller turning circle is a blessing in Europe.
I really like the "idea" behind the "T" but I absolutely hate and could never accept any Racetech/Alcantara in the car. In the (unlikely) event that it were possible to replace ALL of the Racetech/Alcantara with leather . . . here would be my $120,730 configuration: http://www.porsche-code.com/PPYEUPN1
12-27-2022, 02:52 AM
#25
Rennlist Member
Nothing really controversial about your build....
.
.
- Leather is always nice.
- RAS is not a likely deal breaker for future buyers. It adds complexity to a model that is all about simplicity, go ahead and skip it particularly if you don't want it. I have RAS on one of my cars, not on the others. It wouldn't even make my top ten list of 'must have' or 'really want' options.
- I personally *would* want carbon buckets in any T I purchased, and that would be a deal breaker, but those are NLA due to shortages, along with other options.
- Black is usually the preferred color for wrapped cars because the door jams and other unwrapped (or un-liquid-wrapped) parts don't stand out as much.
Last edited by pfbz; 12-27-2022 at 03:01 AM.
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Macboy (12-28-2022)
12-27-2022, 03:39 AM
#26
Regarding RAS:
I've decided to add it the basis of it being an option that is a) unique to the T and b) could help make the car feel like less of a pig based on comments here and other threads I've now read. Previously my position was to keep the 911 dynamics as pure as possible but when you really think about it, does that make sense when the car is now a mid engine and so large? I was sold when I read people who have aircooled cars and who drove 992s with and without RAS and mentioned that RAS made it feel more like their smaller aircooled cars.
I've decided to add it the basis of it being an option that is a) unique to the T and b) could help make the car feel like less of a pig based on comments here and other threads I've now read. Previously my position was to keep the 911 dynamics as pure as possible but when you really think about it, does that make sense when the car is now a mid engine and so large? I was sold when I read people who have aircooled cars and who drove 992s with and without RAS and mentioned that RAS made it feel more like their smaller aircooled cars.
What makes an air cooled car feel the way it does is its proportions, design, steering and rear engine bias. The 992, if anything, handles better than an air-cooled car, though the steering is worse (albeit very good for a modern car).
I think RAS cars do corner better, but this is really not a big deal either way. It's a good option - I'd pick it, but don't expect miracles. The car will feel like a 992 either way.
992 doesn't feel like a pig - I'm not sure if you've had some real seat time in one. It's a very good driving car and doesn't particularly drive "bigger" than the 991, though it definitely feels larger on the inside. The interior is wider and more spacious - you feel more wrapped up than in a 991.
I do think you seem down on the car, which is your prerogative, but you've already got one foot out the door - I'm still not entirely sure why you're bothering buying an expensive car that you're not excited about.
12-27-2022, 06:55 AM
#27
RAS helps fix some of the heaviness in the feeling of the 992 vs the 991. I like picking all the performance options on a performance oriented trim when possible.
I'd add the extended range fuel tank too if you track, it's nice not having to refuel as often throughout a track day.
I'd add the extended range fuel tank too if you track, it's nice not having to refuel as often throughout a track day.
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12-27-2022, 09:06 AM
#28
I have an air-cooled car and I wouldn't say RAS makes the 992 feel like an air-cooled car. That's massively overstating it, IMO.
What makes an air cooled car feel the way it does is its proportions, design, steering and rear engine bias. The 992, if anything, handles better than an air-cooled car, though the steering is worse (albeit very good for a modern car).
I think RAS cars do corner better, but this is really not a big deal either way. It's a good option - I'd pick it, but don't expect miracles. The car will feel like a 992 either way.
992 doesn't feel like a pig - I'm not sure if you've had some real seat time in one. It's a very good driving car and doesn't particularly drive "bigger" than the 991, though it definitely feels larger on the inside. The interior is wider and more spacious - you feel more wrapped up than in a 991.
I do think you seem down on the car, which is your prerogative, but you've already got one foot out the door - I'm still not entirely sure why you're bothering buying an expensive car that you're not excited about.
What makes an air cooled car feel the way it does is its proportions, design, steering and rear engine bias. The 992, if anything, handles better than an air-cooled car, though the steering is worse (albeit very good for a modern car).
I think RAS cars do corner better, but this is really not a big deal either way. It's a good option - I'd pick it, but don't expect miracles. The car will feel like a 992 either way.
992 doesn't feel like a pig - I'm not sure if you've had some real seat time in one. It's a very good driving car and doesn't particularly drive "bigger" than the 991, though it definitely feels larger on the inside. The interior is wider and more spacious - you feel more wrapped up than in a 991.
I do think you seem down on the car, which is your prerogative, but you've already got one foot out the door - I'm still not entirely sure why you're bothering buying an expensive car that you're not excited about.
Last edited by Fullyield; 12-27-2022 at 09:11 AM.
12-27-2022, 03:43 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Nothing really controversial about your build....
.
.
- Leather is always nice.
- RAS is not a likely deal breaker for future buyers. It adds complexity to a model that is all about simplicity, go ahead and skip it particularly if you don't want it. I have RAS on one of my cars, not on the others. It wouldn't even make my top ten list of 'must have' or 'really want' options.
- I personally *would* want carbon buckets in any T I purchased, and that would be a deal breaker, but those are NLA due to shortages, along with other options.
- Black is usually the preferred color for wrapped cars because the door jams and other unwrapped (or un-liquid-wrapped) parts don't stand out as much.
I have an air-cooled car and I wouldn't say RAS makes the 992 feel like an air-cooled car. That's massively overstating it, IMO.
What makes an air cooled car feel the way it does is its proportions, design, steering and rear engine bias. The 992, if anything, handles better than an air-cooled car, though the steering is worse (albeit very good for a modern car).
I think RAS cars do corner better, but this is really not a big deal either way. It's a good option - I'd pick it, but don't expect miracles. The car will feel like a 992 either way.
992 doesn't feel like a pig - I'm not sure if you've had some real seat time in one. It's a very good driving car and doesn't particularly drive "bigger" than the 991, though it definitely feels larger on the inside. The interior is wider and more spacious - you feel more wrapped up than in a 991.
I do think you seem down on the car, which is your prerogative, but you've already got one foot out the door - I'm still not entirely sure why you're bothering buying an expensive car that you're not excited about.
What makes an air cooled car feel the way it does is its proportions, design, steering and rear engine bias. The 992, if anything, handles better than an air-cooled car, though the steering is worse (albeit very good for a modern car).
I think RAS cars do corner better, but this is really not a big deal either way. It's a good option - I'd pick it, but don't expect miracles. The car will feel like a 992 either way.
992 doesn't feel like a pig - I'm not sure if you've had some real seat time in one. It's a very good driving car and doesn't particularly drive "bigger" than the 991, though it definitely feels larger on the inside. The interior is wider and more spacious - you feel more wrapped up than in a 991.
I do think you seem down on the car, which is your prerogative, but you've already got one foot out the door - I'm still not entirely sure why you're bothering buying an expensive car that you're not excited about.
Thank you also for chiming in on the 992 platform in general. I'm sorry to feel so down about it and part of buying it is me hoping to change my mind with seat time. To answer your question as to why, it's because given the current market, I don't believe I will lose money on it or little if any should I decide to part ways with it sooner than expected.
Agree with rk-d. I think you are over-estimating the difference in driving experience between 992T with MT and a similarly spec’d 992S with MT. Same body, chassis, suspension and brakes. Different turbos and tune. The T is 44 lbs. lighter (with no rear seats) but with 64 less HP. The difference for the two similarly spec’s cars (with my desired options) was only $6k even with full leather interior upgrade that is not available in the T. They both drive great and I think you will find the driving experience quite similar. Neither will feel like a pig. My 992 drives substantially better than my 991.1S ever did and both about same size and weight. Neither drove like my 997.2S or my 997.1S. If you are buying the T because you believe it drives differently than the other 992’s, you might consider flying to Atlanta PEC and drive both….hard…..on track, back-to-back. The PEC is next to the airport. Can do it in one, easy day. Best wishes with whatever you decide.
Last edited by Wilder; 12-27-2022 at 03:52 PM.
12-27-2022, 06:42 PM
#30
Agree with rk-d. I think you are over-estimating the difference in driving experience between 992T with MT and a similarly spec’d 992S with MT. Same body, chassis, suspension and brakes. Different turbos and tune. The T is 44 lbs. lighter (with no rear seats) but with 64 less HP. The difference for the two similarly spec’s cars (with my desired options) was only $6k even with full leather interior upgrade that is not available in the T. They both drive great and I think you will find the driving experience quite similar. Neither will feel like a pig. My 992 drives substantially better than my 991.1S ever did and both about same size and weight. Neither drove like my 997.2S or my 997.1S. If you are buying the T because you believe it drives differently than the other 992’s, you might consider flying to Atlanta PEC and drive both….hard…..on track, back-to-back. The PEC is next to the airport. Can do it in one, easy day. Best wishes with whatever you decide.