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I agree, great vid and information. It's refreshing to see a review where they actually give you information and explain the differences between the models. So much content out there is just fluff, no real research or understanding of the true differences between the various 911's
True, my bad. But the buckets and rear seat delete still represent the bulk of the weight reduction.
I don't disagree, but that total weight reduction is, what, about 1% of the total weight of the car. Thats less than the difference between driver weight in a lot of situations - probably more than the difference between Stig and Sabine. When was the last time you heard someone say that her lap times were better because she weighed 40lbs less.
That is really a subjective viewpoint and they did not expand on it much. However, empirical testing by various publications has shown the GTS to be meaningfully faster on acceleration than the -S...
128 vs 125 is significant in the 1/4 if they were comparable conditions. As someone said it is more than 30 hp difference. The calculators for a 3400 lb car say about 42hp additional to get 3 mph on the big end.
I don't disagree, but that total weight reduction is, what, about 1% of the total weight of the car. Thats less than the difference between driver weight in a lot of situations - probably more than the difference between Stig and Sabine. When was the last time you heard someone say that her lap times were better because she weighed 40lbs less.
Cool picture
The point is that the GTS is a slightly heavier car than a Carrera-S due to added "go-fast" goodies. I agree that the weight difference is not substantial though, but every bit adds up.
I don’t think a single person has argued that the GTS is not superior to the S. I’m a little confused if that was ever questionable. You get what you pay for. But having said that, the video brings to light that there are some configurations where an S can actually be optioned out with stiffer springs than a GTS. So Porsche intended some level of overlap. I personally don’t understand the point of the softer spring option in the GTS. Also I think Porsche should have just made RWS standard on the GTS. It seems to be a big factor in getting around tight corners on a track.
I don’t think a single person has argued that the GTS is not superior to the S. I’m a little confused if that was ever questionable. You get what you pay for. But having said that, the video brings to light that there are some configurations where an S can actually be optioned out with stiffer springs than a GTS. So Porsche intended some level of overlap. I personally don’t understand the point of the softer spring option in the GTS. Also I think Porsche should have just made RWS standard on the GTS. It seems to be a big factor in getting around tight corners on a track.
There were many folks that argued that there was little if no difference between the CS and GTS S-PASM. The spring rates show that the difference is in fact quite substantial.
I agree, I would not buy a GTS with the optional normal PASM. But that is the beauty with Porsche, each can spec their own to their liking.
Agreed. The GTS has significantly better performance than an S given the 30 hp/ 30 lb/ft torque difference. The manual GTS runs identical 1/4 mi times with a 1 mph faster trap speed speed than a PDK S. The PDK GTS is quicker still. .4 sec and 3mph improvement in the 1/4 mile btw a PDK GTS vs a PDK S indicates to me that the imrpovement in power is more like 50 hp. I didn't post the manual S results, but the manual S (which i own) is WAY slower than a manual GTS. It's also great to see that the 2020 992 S is basically the same weight as a 2022 992 GTS. Most cars gain weight over time even in the same generation.
Here are the C&D performance stats: GTS manual vs. Carrera S PDK vs. GTS PDK:
I agree. I guess what I meant was that you may not notice the power increase in normal everyday situations. Power bump shows up at the track when the timers are running for sure.
I don’t think a single person has argued that the GTS is not superior to the S. I’m a little confused if that was ever questionable. You get what you pay for. But having said that, the video brings to light that there are some configurations where an S can actually be optioned out with stiffer springs than a GTS. So Porsche intended some level of overlap. I personally don’t understand the point of the softer spring option in the GTS. Also I think Porsche should have just made RWS standard on the GTS. It seems to be a big factor in getting around tight corners on a track.
The S can't get be optioned with a firmer suspension than a GTS. The GTS can be optioned with softer springs which are equivalent to the stiffest option available on an S. The standard GTS S-PASM is 40% stiffer than the S-PASM on the regular S. So, even when the GTS is optioned with softer springs, it simply makes it the same as the S with the S-PASM option.
The S can't get be optioned with a firmer suspension than a GTS. The GTS can be optioned with softer springs which are equivalent to the stiffest option available on an S. The standard GTS S-PASM is 40% stiffer than the S-PASM on the regular S. So, even when the GTS is optioned with softer springs, it simply makes it the same as the S with the S-PASM option.
That’s not quite how I read it. The GTS S-PASM is equivalent to the turbo S-PASM, which is unavailable on the CS. The GTS can ordered with the base PASM (non-Sport) of the CS. The S-PASM on CS is somewhere in between the base PASM and GTS S-PASM. So yes, a S-PASM CS would be more stiffly sprung than a GTS optioned with the basic PASM.
I have an C2S with PASM Sport and RWS, so the availability of a stiffer suspension some of the time, though still not GTS stiffer. And the advantage of RWS. True that I don't have the GTS's Turbo brakes or the additional HP, but:
1. I don't track so the C2S PASM Sport is fine and as a daily I drive in PASM Sport Normal Suspension mode which is stiffer than a regular PASM car, but not too stiff and have the availability of the Sport Suspension mode.
2. I likely will tune the car at some point, so the HP difference that the video points out is not noticeable is a non-issue now, and likely post any tune I might do.
3. That leaves me really missing out only on the larger brakes, and I can't say I've ever had a complaint about the C2S brakes, especially since I don't track.
4. I would not have opted for the GTS interior so I didn't miss out there.
5. The wheels I have and would have wanted are not available on the GTS as my biggest complaint about the GTS is the lack of wheel options.
I have an C2S with PASM Sport and RWS, so the availability of a stiffer suspension some of the time, though still not GTS stiffer. And the advantage of RWS. True that I don't have the GTS's Turbo brakes or the additional HP, but:
1. I don't track so the C2S PASM Sport is fine and as a daily I drive in PASM Sport Normal Suspension mode which is stiffer than a regular PASM car, but not too stiff and have the availability of the Sport Suspension mode.
2. I likely will tune the car at some point, so the HP difference that the video points out is not noticeable is a non-issue now, and likely post any tune I might do.
3. That leaves me really missing out only on the larger brakes, and I can't say I've ever had a complaint about the C2S brakes, especially since I don't track.
4. I would not have opted for the GTS interior so I didn't miss out there.
5. The wheels I have and would have wanted are not available on the GTS as my biggest complaint about the GTS is the lack of wheel options.
This is pretty much my thought process too. I thought I wanted the GTS but a tuned S coupe sounds like the best way forward for me since I dont track.
I bought a fairly well spec'd new Carrera S Cab for $135k
With modern ADMs, a GTS is over $200k
Sorry folks, but there is no way in heck I'd spend over $200k for a sports car and it be anything with "Carrera" in the name, no matter how much you want to defend this car. It's just not special enough.
That’s not quite how I read it. The GTS S-PASM is equivalent to the turbo S-PASM, which is unavailable on the CS. The GTS can ordered with the base PASM (non-Sport) of the CS. The S-PASM on CS is somewhere in between the base PASM and GTS S-PASM. So yes, a S-PASM CS would be more stiffly sprung than a GTS optioned with the basic PASM.
You are 100% correct. I guess I was looking at it from the perspective that the "normal" GTS suspension is firmer than anything you can option on an S but, your summary is very accurate.
Agreed. The GTS has significantly better performance than an S given the 30 hp/ 30 lb/ft torque difference. The manual GTS runs identical 1/4 mi times with a 1 mph faster trap speed speed than a PDK S. The PDK GTS is quicker still. .4 sec and 3mph improvement in the 1/4 mile btw a PDK GTS vs a PDK S indicates to me that the imrpovement in power is more like 50 hp. I didn't post the manual S results, but the manual S (which i own) is WAY slower than a manual GTS. It's also great to see that the 2020 992 S is basically the same weight as a 2022 992 GTS. Most cars gain weight over time even in the same generation.
Here are the C&D performance stats: GTS manual vs. Carrera S PDK vs. GTS PDK:
Also note the 2020 992 4S (PDK) with the same 0-60 as the 2022 992 GTS (PDK w/ lightweight pkg), specifically 2.8s (w/ rollout). Effectively, the RWD w/ lightweight pkg GTS achieves the same 0-60 performance (w/ rollout) as the AWD S.
From a rolling start (5-60), the GTS beats the 4S by .1s @ 3.9s . The GTS also seems to dip just below 11s (@ 128 mph) in the quarter mile w/ the 4S .2s slower (@ 124 mph) .
Very oddly it seems the 4S achieved the best roadholding performance @ 1.08g vs. the GTS'es 1.06g! Could it be the tires or the AWD system? 🤔
The other metrics (30-50, 50-70) look identical, including braking performance, which I guess is not surprising?
Last edited by A Nonce; 09-27-2022 at 02:48 PM.
Reason: formatting
09-27-2022, 12:14 AM
