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Head of the line customers are not waiting. They are getting their cars on schedule. The dealer you are working with is taking you for a ride.
I think your statement needs a little honing.......Your likely correct IF the dealer is getting the specific model allocations those "up front" are seeking. Ive had a deposit on a C4S since May with my local (small) dealer. They've received zero allocations for that specific model to offer me as #1 in the line. Further they've received no "spare" allocations they'd considering swapping on my behalf. They have received TT's, Cabs and now a Targa nd 2 GTS so yes, those front of liners are getting their cars but only when the applicable allocation drops. I trust them that they have not received one they can offer me.
As to other brands, my wife ordered a RR in May with July build. They blew thru 4 adjusted build times and only finally built it on 10/18 with a early Dec delv. Now the new one is about to go into production so Im just going to sell it back to them at a cost after driving for 4 months, having ordered the new one, and hope they've got their supply chain issues somewhat improved.
Your sales numbers are not completely accurate. No one can say for sure that Porsche would've sold as many 992 as they would 991 if that were the case the 2019 sales number should be closer to 11k. The 991 at introduction was a significantly less expensive car. 992s are pricey.
Below are USA 911 sales by year. There is no shortage of production. There is a slight increase in demand.
2015 - 12904
2016 - 8901
2017 - 8970
2018 - 9647
2019 - 9265
2020 - 8840
2021 - on pace for 8800+
Given this data- there should have been a significant pop in 2021 sales figures as it usually takes some time for new generation to reach peak production plus you also have new model variant (ie Conv, Targa, Turbo) that are added to drive even more sales. Instead you basically see a decline in both 2020 and 2021 compared to 2019 #s.
There is ZERO chance that the 992 would sell less units vs 991 during its peak years as the demand for sports cars / luxury goods is higher than ever.
I can’t believe we are sitting here debating if there is a 911 shortage of new cars - just go yourself to local dealerships and see for yourselves……
I can’t believe we are sitting here debating if there is a 911 shortage of new cars - just go yourself to local dealerships and see for yourselves……
People can argue all day whether the "shortage" is causes by a decrease of supply, an increase in demand or both. But, by definition there IS a shortage since there are not sufficient cars to meet demand. as evidence by long wait time, no inventory and ADMs. Unless you believe this to a conspiracy and there is a stockpile of 911s being stored in a secret location like Area 51.
FWIW, I think the shortage is caused by (i) reduced supply resulting fore the pandemic shutdown and the inability of JIT systems to handle supply disruptions and (ii) increased demand due to delayed purchases and accumulated free cash.
There really shouldn't be a debate about shortages. The sales numbers don't tell the whole story, no matter how many times they are posted. Just because there isn't some sharp decline in sales doesn't mean the supply chain issues aren't real and dealers are playing games. All you have to do is take your head out of the sand for a second to realize there are issues affecting many industries. The entire auto industry has been dealing with supply chain issues for quite some time - I'm in a business where the trickle down effect of their shortfalls affect ours. I walked through a Toyota dealership a couple months ago and they were asking $60k for $40k msrp RAV 4 and had very few cars on the lot for sale. Porsche is not immune and while dealers may be benefitting by those willing to pay ADM, my guess is that they don't want to be in this situation and they would gladly sell as many cars they have orders for in house.
Like others have said, just take a stroll though any nearby dealership. I've been to Toyota, BMW, Audi, and Porsche dealers recently and none have cars. I'm not sure why there is even an argument.
Given this data- there should have been a significant pop in 2021 sales figures as it usually takes some time for new generation to reach peak production plus you also have new model variant (ie Conv, Targa, Turbo) that are added to drive even more sales. Instead you basically see a decline in both 2020 and 2021 compared to 2019 #s.
There is ZERO chance that the 992 would sell less units vs 991 during its peak years as the demand for sports cars / luxury goods is higher than ever.
I can’t believe we are sitting here debating if there is a 911 shortage of new cars - just go yourself to local dealerships and see for yourselves……
If you look at the sales numbers from 2005 onward they show there should've been a pop in sales in 2019. Like there was a pop in sales in 2005 transitioning from the 996 to the 997 and in 2012 with the transition from the 997 to the 991.
What were debating in this thread is not that there aren't any 911's at the dealership. It's whether dealers are hoarding or hiding allocations in order to drive up prices and ADMs.
There really shouldn't be a debate about shortages. The sales numbers don't tell the whole story, no matter how many times they are posted. Just because there isn't some sharp decline in sales doesn't mean the supply chain issues aren't real and dealers are playing games. All you have to do is take your head out of the sand for a second to realize there are issues affecting many industries. The entire auto industry has been dealing with supply chain issues for quite some time - I'm in a business where the trickle down effect of their shortfalls affect ours. I walked through a Toyota dealership a couple months ago and they were asking $60k for $40k msrp RAV 4 and had very few cars on the lot for sale. Porsche is not immune and while dealers may be benefitting by those willing to pay ADM, my guess is that they don't want to be in this situation and they would gladly sell as many cars they have orders for in house.
Like others have said, just take a stroll though any nearby dealership. I've been to Toyota, BMW, Audi, and Porsche dealers recently and none have cars. I'm not sure why there is even an argument.
What were debating in this thread is not that there aren't any 911's at the dealership. It's whether dealers are hoarding or hiding allocations in order to drive up prices and ADMs.
I finally made the decision to order a Targa 4S. My dealer says there are four others on the wait list. I am number 5. My dealer received its allocations for "this quarter" on November 1st or 2nd. They received one allocation for a Targa 4S (that brought their wait list down to 4 and adding me makes me #5). My dealer also tells me that they usually receive one or two allocations for each quarter. I am trying to understand what time frame is "this quarter." Does "this quarter" begin in November 2021 and end in January 2022? If so, that would mean the next quarter begins around February 1, 2022, and ends around April 30, 2022, correct? If I assume the dealer receives one allocation per quarter, and I am number 5 on the list, that would mean I would get my allocation in February 2023. Of course, I am hoping either the dealer gets 2 allocations in a quarter in 2022 or someone before me on the wait list drops out. Also, if the dealer gets an allocation for a car in a given quarter, can the dealer "spend" that allocation by placing an order at any time during the quarter? If the dealer gets 2 or more allocations, can he order both at the beginning of the quarter or must he wait and place the second order at some later date during the quarter? Finally, are the allocations model specific? For example, does the dealer receive an allocation for a "Targa" and the customer gets to choose between Targa 4 or Targa 4S or does the dealer get separate allocations for a Targa 4 and a Targa 4S? (I am sure a Targa 4 GTS is a separate allocation). Thanks in advance for your answers and thoughts.
You can ask your SA on what 'this quarter' and 'next quarter' means. Your SA should know when they expect to receive the next batch of allocation and what the range of build dates would be.
E.g. "Allocation will be released next week, build date would be July ~ Sept 2021. So expecting Oct ~ Late Nov delivery."
I don't think allocation can be interchangeable. When I was first offered an open allocation on a C2, it was a C2 only allocation. My SA has separate waiting list on each model.
In theory - 99% of all allocations could be including ADM's right now, but as long as a handful of buyers (with strong dealer relationships and purchase histories) are getting them at MSRP, then there will continue to be a debate as to whether ADM's are acceptable practice. The net result is that some new buyers will refuse to pay an ADM on principal, and will end up waiting (and waiting, and waiting...)
What were debating in this thread is not that there aren't any 911's at the dealership. It's whether dealers are hoarding or hiding allocations in order to drive up prices and ADMs.
Ok. And for the record, I'm not talking about 911s at dealerships, either.
Nothing in me believes that this is a wide spread Porsche dealer issue where they are hoarding or hiding allocations in order to drive up prices and ADMs. While of course there could be outliers and unscrupulous dealers that don't follow good business practices, I believe the supply chain issue is real and that this is an industry wide problem. It certainly is not specific to Porsche.
Ok. And for the record, I'm not talking about 911s at dealerships, either.
Nothing in me believes that this is a wide spread Porsche dealer issue where they are hoarding or hiding allocations in order to drive up prices and ADMs. While of course there could be outliers and unscrupulous dealers that don't follow good business practices, I believe the supply chain issue is real and that this is an industry wide problem. It certainly is not specific to Porsche.
I believe Porsche dealers are being extremely selective in who they sell a 911 to these days in order to drive up prices and production issue are having little to no effect on their ability to get cars.
I believe Porsche dealers are being extremely selective in who they sell a 911 to these days in order to drive up prices and production issue are having little to no effect on their ability to get cars.
I can buy this. The dealers want service business as well as car sales. In fact service business more so is my perception. Porsche is doing all in their power to preserve all aspects of the 911 food chain as it is the most profitable model line. To think that the 911 was ever considered to be killed off by Porsche amazes me to this day!
I can buy this. The dealers want service business as well as car sales. In fact service business more so is my perception. Porsche is doing all in their power to preserve all aspects of the 911 food chain as it is the most profitable model line. To think that the 911 was ever considered to be killed off by Porsche amazes me to this day!
I don't know - is going after service money a "thing"??? I live in a fairly large area (2+ MM people) and there's only 1 Porsche dealership and even in the biggest cities you're only going to find a handful of third-parties (if any) that do end-to-end Porsche service. Even the European car places out here exclude Porsche from their service offerings. I don't see dealers competing based on service because its the only option for most people.
I believe Porsche dealers are being extremely selective in who they sell a 911 to these days in order to drive up prices and production issue are having little to no effect on their ability to get cars.
I guess we'll agree to disagree. I'm only basing my thoughts on the few dealers I've spoken to within SoCal and the one dealer in Vegas. They are getting very few allocations of high trim Macans (which have become one of their cash cows), not just 911s, and they have very little sitting inventory on their lots. Coupled with the fact that it's slim pickings for cars in the Toyota, BMW, and Audi dealers in my area, my belief is it's an industry problem. P car dealers don't have empty lots just so they can play games with 911 sales. My regular P dealer where I bought my first 3 cars from only would sell me a 992 GTS with ADM. Not that long ago they sold me my C2 at 5% discount. Could they be playing games? Sure. Perhaps I'm naive, but sometimes the problem is as "simple" as it seems and there isn't a bigger conspiracy behind it.
What were debating in this thread is not that there aren't any 911's at the dealership. It's whether dealers are hoarding or hiding allocations in order to drive up prices and ADMs.
Sorry, but I have a hard time buying into that particular conspiracy theory.
Sorry, but I have a hard time buying into that particular conspiracy theory.
It isn't a conspiracy theory it's capitalism in its purest form working as it was intended. Ferrari has been using this very same methods to manipulate the prices of their new and used mid-engined sports cars for decades.
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