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If I am Porsche, a premium brand, I don’t benefit by having inconsistent pricing, discounts I am not controlling, and customers who need to waste time shopping around for the best price. This pricing strategy is inconsistent with premium products. I should be just as consistent and meticulous with my sales and distribution as I am with the creation of my products.
I think what Tesla is doing is refreshing and shows that the way cars are sold is ripe for disruption.
If I am Porsche, a premium brand, I don’t benefit by having inconsistent pricing, discounts I am not controlling, and customers who need to waste time shopping around for the best price. This pricing strategy is inconsistent with premium products. I should be just as consistent and meticulous with my sales and distribution as I am with the creation of my products.
I think what Tesla is doing is refreshing and shows that the way cars are sold is ripe for disruption.
Porsche is doing just fine the way they do things for decades. Porsche is the most profitable mass produced luxury car manufacturer on the planet.
If you want a “consistent” price, you can get that from the online Porsche “build your dream car” site. But if I had stopped there and just wrote the check, i would have spent $12,000 MORE than what I actually paid. But hey, if shopping around isn’t your thing, you are free to pay the “consistent” list price on Porsche’s web site? I, for one, like the challenge.
Last edited by CodyBigdog; 06-20-2021 at 01:42 AM.
- According to the huckster, E. Musk, the base roadster will start at $200K, when it is released in 2023/2024....so, at that price point, don’t expect more than 1-2K to be sold. But if you believe it will become a sports car “icon”, like the 911, well, everybody is entitled to their opinion. But pretty sure that won’t happen.
- Porsche may eventually electrify, to a degree, the 911...but given current demand, that far outstrips supply, I don’t expect Porsche to be in any rush to make the EV conversion....as it is, Porsche’s recently released Taycan is selling extremely well (better than the Tesla S....despite costing more than the S).
Tesla enjoyed a few years as king of the EV segment. That bloom is fading and the competition is gaining as more larger car companies, with significantly more capital than Tesla, begin to take aim at the growing EV segment. Up until very recently, Tesla had the EV sandbox all to themselves. That is changing. The fact that Ford will soon be selling a EV version of it’s top selling F-150 truck, tells you all you need to know that the big boys are taking aim. So, the only way Tesla will keep it’s head above water in the coming years is to count on the EV sandbox to grow...ie, their share will drop, but total sales may grow as more EV’s are sold.
icon is definitely an opinion. I can be wrong. My opinion is based on demographics. Younger tech oriented (us tik tok folks) who drool over Tesla tech. It’s exciting and invigorating! I can appreciate Tesla for what it is and also appreciate Porsche for what it is (I’m getting one).
My point however is not that Tesla as a whole is better than Porsche. It’s that Tesla has something that appeals to a good chunk of audience sans price - Tech and accessibility - by accessibility I mean anyone who can afford it can get it easily without having to deal with adm and other dealership issues. Issues that drive up existing Porsche cars into Tesla price territory or higher unless you are “a valued customer”. Something this new generation of consumers do not want to have a part of. I can’t imagine my younger colleagues who can afford a Porsche dealing with what we deal with to get one, and it doesn’t have great tech? Ha good luck with that.
If you want a “consistent” price, you can get that from the online Porsche “build your dream car” site. But if I had stopped there and just wrote the check, i would have spent $12,000 MORE than what I actually paid. But hey, if shopping around isn’t your thing, you are free to pay the “consistent” list price on Porsche’s web site? I, for one, like the challenge.
so was blockbuster, blackberry and Nokia, the market is changing, the audience is changing.
Now that I have read all the comments on the relative strength / weakness of Tesla vs. Porsche, I would like to submit the following questions:
Would you like to debate whether Tesla will squash 1) Ferrari; 2) Lamborghini; 3) McLaren; 4) Aston-Martin; 5) any other "sports car brand" constructor?
What do all contributors to the discussion think of:
The future of Tesla-like vehicles (strictly EV, with batteries rechargeable from the grid as the only source of energy) when.....
..... "hydrogen fuel cell" cars (EV vehicles with hydrogen as the main source of energy, converted to electricity) start getting a hold on the market (in about ten years)?
For all those who spoke highly of the M3 and M4, here is what BMW says on the topic:
icon is definitely an opinion. I can be wrong. My opinion is based on demographics. Younger tech oriented (us tik tok folks) who drool over Tesla tech. It’s exciting and invigorating! I can appreciate Tesla for what it is and also appreciate Porsche for what it is (I’m getting one).
I have two 30-something boys. One is a banker and the other owns part of a high tech start-up in Seattle. Point being - both can buy whatever they want, whenever they want. Neither has ever lusted over, nor has a Tesla. In fact, none of their friends (many of whom I see or keep in touch with) own a Tesla or have any desire to get a Tesla. But that’s my experience. Furthermore, and as I mentioned, at a base price of $200K, the Tesla roadster isn’t going to sell more than a few K, at best. It will take generations and generations before the Roadster become the icon that the 911 is.
Sorry, but that’s how it’s gonna play out. Until the Tesla roadster gets on the track and competes against other cars in it’s class, and consistently wins...no sports car person is going to take Tesla’s Roadster seriously, let alone labeling it an “icon”.
My point however is not that Tesla as a whole is better than Porsche.
In some aspects of software on the car, yes. But that’s not why most people buy a Porsche. For those that value superior software and the elimination of the dealership experience, well, they didn’t do their homework and chose poorly. Overall, the Tesla will not approach the Porsche sports car mystique in our lifetime. But keep telling yourself that it will...it’s entertaining to listen to Tesla owners drone on about their cars...
It’s that Tesla has something that appeals to a good chunk of audience sans price - Tech and accessibility - by accessibility I mean anyone who can afford it can get it easily without having to deal with adm and other dealership issues. Issues that drive up existing Porsche cars into Tesla price territory or higher unless you are “a valued customer”. Something this new generation of consumers do not want to have a part of. I can’t imagine my younger colleagues who can afford a Porsche dealing with what we deal with to get one, and it doesn’t have great tech? Ha good luck with that.
Sales of Tesla’s highest priced vehicles have dropped in 2021. The promise of a good, affordably priced EV was the “promise” that got people initially excited about Tesla. Little by little, Tesla’s market share of the EV segment will erode. That’s a guarantee.
Despite the whining, belly aching and other hyperbole about how Porsche’s software compares to Tesla’s, or the antiquated dealer model....the 992 continues to sell exceedingly well. That’s fact, and only shows me that you and the other Tesla cheerleaders have missed the point, the mark of why most people who buy a Porsche, do so. The vast majority of my Porsche buddies track their cars...interesting that I’ve never seen a single Tesla at the Track. Like ever. BMW’s, yes. Mercedes, yes. Ferrari’s, yes. Lambo’s, yes. Z cars, yes, And an occasional Corvette. But no Tesla’s. Odd? Mmmm, maybe the Tesla folk are too busy playing video games on their Tesla’s?
Here’s a smattering of the type of cars I see when I go to the track:
Last edited by CodyBigdog; 06-20-2021 at 11:41 AM.
Now that I have read all the comments on the relative strength / weakness of Tesla vs. Porsche, I would like to submit the following questions:
Would you like to debate whether Tesla will squash 1) Ferrari; 2) Lamborghini; 3) McLaren; 4) Aston-Martin; 5) any other "sports car brand" constructor?
What do all contributors to the discussion think of:
The future of Tesla-like vehicles (strictly EV, with batteries rechargeable from the grid as the only source of energy) when.....
..... "hydrogen fuel cell" cars (EV vehicles with hydrogen as the main source of energy, converted to electricity) start getting a hold on the market (in about ten years)?
For all those who spoke highly of the M3 and M4, here is what BMW says on the topic:
Incidently, isn't it remarkable that this "Tesla vs. the rest of the world" discussion is run under the headline "New Infotainment System PCM 6.0"?
Tesla’s are good cars, but the fact that my dealership has 3 Model S in their parking lot, taken in on trade in for a new Porsche, tells me which way the wind is blowing...for now and the foreseeable future. I don’t know what it is, but every Tesla owner I have met, in person or online, seem to try and prove something about their car. Inferiority complex? Little car syndrome? Not sure what it is...but most are like this. Maybe they’re simply following their Messiah, huckster Musk, and do what they do to try and get more converts to their cause/Cult?
The reality is - Tesla’s and Porsche’s are more different than they are alike....but Tesla owners continue to believe otherwise, ie, I rarely hear Porsche owners comparing their cars to Tesla’s, but most Tesla owners like to compare their cars to Porsche’s. I guess if it makes them feel better about their Tesla’s, then have at it....
Last edited by CodyBigdog; 06-20-2021 at 10:45 AM.
so was blockbuster, blackberry and Nokia, the market is changing, the audience is changing.
Changing? Sure. Porsche already makes a EV that is far outselling the Tesla S. Porsche and every single car manufacturer in the world is changing. You don’t have to tell car makers that they better keep changing to stay relevant, or they will go the way of the Edsel.
As far as Porsche ‘software is concerned, I think they have a number of innovative things that, if not unique, still make the car very “user friendly”. For example, every 992 owner knows that the Homelink garage door opener is linked to your location by the car’s GPS coordinates (if you chose to set it), and automatically pops up when leaving or approaching ones home. I find that feature very convenient, while some still prefer to have it on a button. Furthermore, for those of us with the FAL (front axle lift), it too is tied into any GPS location(s) you set that you want the front end of the car to automatically be raised to avoid scraping the front lip of the car (at speed bumps, entering/leaving parking garages, driveway curbs, etc). For me, that is a game changer that, I believe, few, if any cars have the option to do. The point being - while Porsche may not have every innovative feature one could possibly want, they still have a number of very innovative features.
Porsche has been the, or one of the most profitable automotive companies on the planet for many years. Maybe decades? Their model works, Unlike your examples (false equivalency) of Blockbuster, and other companies...Porsche has, and will continue to stay on top of the automotive sports car pile exactly because they do continue to update and make changes to their cars, every year.
Any car company that wants to, based on what the market is doing, ie, market timing, can make a good EV to compete or exceed Tesla. EV’s are much simpler cars to assemble. Less complicated. Quicker to market. Blockbuster was first to the movie rental market. Blackburry catered to corporate clients because of it’s encryption/security technology...but each company lost market share as new technologies were introduced to the consumer market, that cut right to the heart of their product, or services. Similarly, Tesla was first to the EV market in a serious way....but times change and other consumer options are beginning to emerge that will eventually eat into Tesla’s market share..
While Porsches makes other highly popular vehicles besides the 911, at the heart, at Porsche’s core business is their performance, sport’s car heritage (not software). I assure you, Tesla has no chance in pulling that segment away from Porsche in any meaningful way, anytime soon. Where they will compete against one another, however, will be in the EV segment, ie, Tesla S vs Porsches Taycan, for example. IMO, the next Porsche to be electrified will be the Panamara, not the 911....but Porsche will have to decide if they were to do that, might the Taycan and Panamara be competing against one another?? That’s a no-no in the car world.
That said, every car company on the planet now recognizes that EV’s are here to stay, and as such, have joined in the hunt to take away market share from huckster Musk. In 10 years, maybe 5, I think Musk will be looking to unload Tesla to use that capital for other projects he has started. It’s coming. Wait for it....Tesla’s best days are behind it.
Last edited by CodyBigdog; 06-20-2021 at 01:17 PM.
Tesla’s are good cars, but the fact that my dealership has 3 Model S in their parking lot, taken in on trade in for a new Porsche, tells me which way the wind is blowing...for now and the foreseeable future. I don’t know what it is, but every Tesla owner I have met, in person or online, seem to try and prove something about their car. Inferiority complex? Little car syndrome? Not sure what it is...but most are like this. Maybe they’re simply following their Messiah, huckster Musk, and do what they do to try and get more converts to their cause/Cult?
The reality is - Tesla’s and Porsche’s are more different than they are alike....but Tesla owners continue to believe otherwise, ie, I rarely hear Porsche owners comparing their cars to Tesla’s, but most Tesla owners like to compare their cars to Porsche’s. I guess if it makes them feel better about their Tesla’s, then have at it....
i have a model 3 and a 992. Nothing drives like the 992, but its old world Tech. Kids these days want Teslas not Porsches. You have to be pretty dumb to not see where the car industry is going, its all software and batteries and self driving cars. I repeat, Tesla will destroy Porsche if Porsche doesnt get its act together. Why do you thinj Porsche made the Taycan? Because Porsche owners wanted something different? No dumbass. They made it because Tesla was eating up their market share and now with Tesla making a factory in Berlin and those cars having Porsche level interior and quality, Porsche will be in even more trouble. Anyway im kinda tired of reading your bs
Last edited by Porsche992; 06-20-2021 at 05:08 PM.
i have a model 3 and a 992. Nothing drives like the 992, but its old world Tech. Kids these days want Teslas not Porsches. You have to be pretty dumb to not see where the car industry is going, its all software and batteries and self driving cars. I repeat, Tesla will destroy Porsche if Porsche doesnt get its act together. Why do you thinj Porsche made the Taycan? Because Porsche owners wanted something different? No dumbass. They made it because Tesla was eating up their market share and now with Tesla making a factory in Berlin and those cars having Porsche level interior and quality, Porsche will be in even more trouble. Anyway im kinda tired of reading your bs
Porsche made the Taycan for the same reason they made the Macan/Cayenne…….to get a share of that particular market. EV’s make up 2-3% of overall car sales. That’s not exactly what I would consider a threat when over 90% of cars/trucks sold are ICE’s. Most people aren’t interested in EV’s at all.
i have a model 3 and a 992. Nothing drives like the 992, but its old world Tech. Kids these days want Teslas not Porsches. You have to be pretty dumb to not see where the car industry is going, its all software and batteries and self driving cars. I repeat, Tesla will destroy Porsche if Porsche doesnt get its act together. Why do you thinj Porsche made the Taycan? Because Porsche owners wanted something different? No dumbass. They made it because Tesla was eating up their market share and now with Tesla making a factory in Berlin and those cars having Porsche level interior and quality, Porsche will be in even more trouble. Anyway im kinda tired of reading your bs
RE: “Kids these days want Tesla’s, not Porsche’s”
Wow, maybe the stupidest thing I have read on this site, ever. I’ll take a poll in my neighborhood of high school and college “kids” and ask them the following: “If money was no object, which would you rather have, a Tesla or a Porsche?” Based on what I see these “kids” drive, I will be shocked if one, even one “kid” opts for the Tesla.
Regarding automotive tech....you are 100% clueless, as illustrated by your bold statement above. So for me to accept anything you say, other than it being unfounded drivel, isn’t going to happen. There is zero chance Tesla will impact Porsche, financially, or on the road...so there is zero chance Tesla will “crush” Porsche. You are a delusional troll.
Expect Musk to sell off Tesla within 5 years. It will happen as more and more car companies offer EV’s that are superior to what Tesla offers....and therefore, eat into Tesla’s market share. Musk is spread too thin with limited capital to keep up with the big boys, long term. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but sometimes, reality sucks.
I would like to point out that you already said you were “done with me”...and yet, here you are again. Too funny. Not only are you uninformed (i.e., a “dumbass”), but a liar as well.
Last edited by CodyBigdog; 06-20-2021 at 06:55 PM.
Porsche sold over 9,000 Taycan’s in 1QFY21. Tesla sold/delivered 4,156 Model S in 1QFY21....and that’s despite the Porsche Taycan costing, on average, $50K MORE than the Tesla S.
For the record, Tesla sold about 20K Model S in all of 2020, so a first quarter sales figure of about 4K (2021) is right on par to yield an annual number of about 16-17K in 2021. I expect Porsche to “crush” that number, by year’s end, with it’s new Taycan. Is the introduction of the new “Plaid” Model S a last ditch effort to rekindle interest in the S?? Might Musk abandon the S, knowing that Porsche is about to claim the top spot in the luxury EV segment?? Stay tuned.
As I said - As more and more players enter the EV market, Tesla’s dominance in this segment will diminish. There is no question about it, as the handwriting is already on the wa;ll. 😱
Last edited by CodyBigdog; 06-20-2021 at 06:41 PM.
Guys.. i joined this forum because my 992 came with a wrong color panel and now im getting lectures on why Tesla owners suck amd Elon Musk this and that. I have been a Porsche fan before i was a Tesla fan , and can appreciate the great in both. Why cant some of you be like that? I have tons of experience with Tesla software, and know for a fact its leaps ahead of Porsche and the future is electric. I dont hate Porsche, i love their cars. Thats why i got one. Would i get a electric porsche? No way on earth based on my experience with their software. Thats it, thats all.. love you all. Bye
Also.. this is current made in California fit and finish on model s plaid. If you think Tesla berlin will not be up to par with Porsche interiors, you are very wrong. If you love Porsche pressure the company on improving software updates and software in general or they will be in trouble,
06-20-2021, 01:18 AM
