Porsche992

Tesla is building a factory in Berlin that will make Germans proud of their car industry again

M3Inline6

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

Porsche992

nothing its just funny how people in this forum domt respect Tesla and what ifs doing. A ton of ignorance.

slwong23

Maybe you considered both while shopping, but I still stand by comment, they are apples and oranges, esp the M3. Not a slight against BMW by any means, but they are just very different cars.

M3Inline6

I think people here respect what Musk did with Tesla, but that doesn't mean the product is on the same level as Porsche. The gripes you hear from RennLister's is the same thing you hear from Tesla owners. It's not like the issues are unsubstantiated.

Porsche992

its leagues above Porsche , like on another dimension. Porsche does great old century cars. Nothing drives like a 992 but Tesla is not about that

M3Inline6

You regale in all things Tesla. That's fine. There's something for everybody. Tesla is a hard pass for me. There is nothing inspiring to me about Tesla at all........not the aesthetic, not the tech, nada.

macanspnw

Actually, no he's not. VW has gone all in on electric. They have the resoreuces to back it up. Give VW 5 years and they will equal or surpass Tesla's market share. Ford, Toyota, etc are also investing tens of billions into electric. If you think Tesla is going to kill all these players in terms of market share, you could not be more wrong. I like Tesla. I own Tesla stock but from a business perspective Tesla only enjoys what they enjoy because they were first to market. Teslas quality control sucks. Their interiors suck. The S is very dated. They better stop resting on their laurels or Tesla as a car company will be no different than AOL or Gateway 2000. Google them if you're too young to understand. Cheers!

CodyBigdog

He’s a troll.

slwong23

It’s not about the spec differences, they are just apples and oranges IMO. Like you said, you can get similar performance for half the cost of a C2S, and likely similar or better numbers than a C2. I stand by my comment that no one is seriously considering a C2S at double the cost of an M3/M4, rather they are just kidding themselves and would have never paid that much more for a C2S, nor would they ever “settle” for a C2. If one cares about the paper specs, they will most certainly end up in a BMW because the value play will win out. Nothing wrong with that and I’m not trying to slight BMW in any way, but they are just different animals. The BMW buyers (we have one and will likely get another X3 for the wife) will always rationalize the value play. I mean, you alluded to it yourself with the “aspire to get there eventually.” Apples and oranges. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

CodyBigdog

Name calling and wrong in the same sentence. Cool. You are a troll...run along little man.. You bring zero to the table.

https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/tesla-...es-usa-canada/

Captain P

the way I see it, it is not just cos of software. It’s multiple things. Sooner than later Porsche will start to electrify their flagship 911. In the meantime Tesla is objectively winning in the software department and with the new Tesla roadster branching into sport cars, accessibility is where Tesla will have an upper hand, if the roaster becomes an icon (which I believe it will) and anyone can get one, dealerships will be the death of Porsche unless Porsche can really stand out in ways Tesla can’t even compete. The gap for better or for worse is closing.

CodyBigdog

A few points:

- According to the huckster, E. Musk, the base roadster will start at $200K, when it is released in 2023/2024....so, at that price point, don’t expect more than 1-2K to be sold. But if you believe it will become a sports car “icon”, like the 911, well, everybody is entitled to their opinion. But pretty sure that won’t happen.

- Porsche may eventually electrify, to a degree, the 911...but given current demand, that far outstrips supply, I don’t expect Porsche to be in any rush to make the EV conversion....as it is, Porsche’s recently released Taycan is selling extremely well (better than the Tesla S....despite costing more than the S).

- Then there’s the growing reliability issues with Tesla’s: https://www.forbes.com/sites/edgarst...h=1f4bb7e35fbb


Tesla enjoyed a few years as king of the EV segment. That bloom is fading and the competition is gaining as more larger car companies, with significantly more capital than Tesla, begin to take aim at the growing EV segment. Up until very recently, Tesla had the EV sandbox all to themselves. That is changing. The fact that Ford will soon be selling a EV version of it’s top selling F-150 truck, tells you all you need to know that the big boys are taking aim. So, the only way Tesla will keep it’s head above water in the coming years is to count on the EV sandbox to grow...ie, their share will drop, but total sales may grow as more EV’s are sold.

Sal635

This!

The most interesting thing about Tesla is their disruption/destruction of the dealership distribution model. It’s antiquated, damages brands, and often fails to deliver value to the customer.

Porsche is less susceptible to this than other brands but all domestic brands, and many imports repeatedly have their brands tarnished by relying on third parties to sell their products.

Imagine have real fixed prices for Porsches (no adm) and being able to order them online. It would be amazing.

CodyBigdog

As a point of fact - Tesla went to this model because they didn’;t have the capital to open dealerships all over the country. It was a necessity thing. Not saying it is a bad thing, just is the way it is.

Sometimes, having multiple dealerships in a metropolitan area is a good thing for consumers. Every car I’ve ever bought, i played one dealerships’ price off against another. Where I live, we have 5 Porsche dealerships within about an hours drive of my house.....and was able to leverage that to get an outstanding discount.

As said above, not necessarily a good thing, for the consumer, if you live in a large metropolitan area. Now, if you live in the middle of nowhere, with only one dealership within a day’s drive, then yea, having a fixed price works for you.