New Buyer - C2 or C2S?
05-15-2021, 11:50 PM
#46
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+1
Owned both C2 & C2S. Turbo lag argument is a nonstarter. Especially for the 992 gen.
Owned both C2 & C2S. Turbo lag argument is a nonstarter. Especially for the 992 gen.
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05-16-2021, 03:54 AM
#47
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Nonsense, I’ve done around 40,000 miles in 3 911’s, both base and S, they’re all just as much ‘fun’ as each other in all situations. Although the S is a bit more relaxed around town courtesy of a big fat torque curve which the base doesn’t have, and it does have bigger brakes and a LSD which are useful on the track.
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05-16-2021, 01:49 PM
#48
Own a '19 991.2 C4S manual and have put on 15k miles, both in-town and on several extended road trips in the SE US.
The statement in regard to an S not being "fun" in-town because it's too powerful seems odd, if so, why is it that so many purchase these crazy HP cars? I don't hear too many complaints from owners saying my car needs less HP, many are busy adding even more HP through mods.
My 911 is very tractable around town, hardly needs any gas to get going in first and unless you're in 5-6-7, you can feed it the gas and GO. The gearbox is quite nice, easy to shift and the ECU helps to make smooth engagements to save wear on the drivetrain.
The non-S base model is hardly any slower than the S and has enough motivation to get you in trouble quite quickly, they are fine. The S model does have some additional mechanicals which are nice to have but not absolutely necessary.
I've driven the 992 C2S PDK on track for hours and I can tell you it's a bullet. However, a manual is a must for me so if I were to buy a 992, it would be an S.
You won't be wrong in buying either one, you don't have to satisfy the crowd (as some enjoy jerking others' chains for reactions), just yourself.
Have fun.
The statement in regard to an S not being "fun" in-town because it's too powerful seems odd, if so, why is it that so many purchase these crazy HP cars? I don't hear too many complaints from owners saying my car needs less HP, many are busy adding even more HP through mods.
My 911 is very tractable around town, hardly needs any gas to get going in first and unless you're in 5-6-7, you can feed it the gas and GO. The gearbox is quite nice, easy to shift and the ECU helps to make smooth engagements to save wear on the drivetrain.
The non-S base model is hardly any slower than the S and has enough motivation to get you in trouble quite quickly, they are fine. The S model does have some additional mechanicals which are nice to have but not absolutely necessary.
I've driven the 992 C2S PDK on track for hours and I can tell you it's a bullet. However, a manual is a must for me so if I were to buy a 992, it would be an S.
You won't be wrong in buying either one, you don't have to satisfy the crowd (as some enjoy jerking others' chains for reactions), just yourself.
Have fun.
Last edited by BSO; 05-16-2021 at 01:52 PM.
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05-16-2021, 09:42 PM
#50
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Nonsense, I’ve done around 40,000 miles in 3 911’s, both base and S, they’re all just as much ‘fun’ as each other in all situations. Although the S is a bit more relaxed around town courtesy of a big fat torque curve which the base doesn’t have, and it does have bigger brakes and a LSD which are useful on the track.
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aggie57 (05-16-2021)
05-16-2021, 11:58 PM
#51
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Is it?
My car has 4 way seats, sunroof delete, PCCBs. I'd bet it's lighter than the commonly equipped Carrera.
Max torque of the Carrera is 331 lb/ft at 1900 RPM. Max torque for C2s is 390 lb/ft ~ 2300 RPM. What is the torque of the C2S at 1900 RPM? More?
Peak power for both is at 6500 RPM and the C2S is obviously more.
The Carrera takes a smidge longer through the gears, so you may hear more noise at the same speeds. It has smaller tires and a softer suspension (relative to SPASM). Otherwise, it's the same car, but slower.
You can argue that the C2S is maybe not worth it over the Carrera. But to say it's outright inferior is a whole different argument.
And driving through town, in traffic, I've never heard anyone say a slower, less powerful car is more desirable. Slower cars are more fun when the roads are empty and you can really wind them out and explore the powerband. And, IMO, that argument applies mostly to NA engines and physically smaller cars than this.
My car has 4 way seats, sunroof delete, PCCBs. I'd bet it's lighter than the commonly equipped Carrera.
Max torque of the Carrera is 331 lb/ft at 1900 RPM. Max torque for C2s is 390 lb/ft ~ 2300 RPM. What is the torque of the C2S at 1900 RPM? More?
Peak power for both is at 6500 RPM and the C2S is obviously more.
The Carrera takes a smidge longer through the gears, so you may hear more noise at the same speeds. It has smaller tires and a softer suspension (relative to SPASM). Otherwise, it's the same car, but slower.
You can argue that the C2S is maybe not worth it over the Carrera. But to say it's outright inferior is a whole different argument.
And driving through town, in traffic, I've never heard anyone say a slower, less powerful car is more desirable. Slower cars are more fun when the roads are empty and you can really wind them out and explore the powerband. And, IMO, that argument applies mostly to NA engines and physically smaller cars than this.
The Base is 24lbs lighter, because it has smaller brakes and smaller wheels. I am not sure that puts it in the “obviously lighter” camp. That’s less than four gallons of gas. It’s a less than 1% weight difference in exchange for, you know, bigger brakes …and bigger wheels.
Considering that the S cars make 17% more horsepower and 18% more torque. Oh, and that torque hits between 2000 and 2500RPM, where the S makes more torque than the Base car ever makes. By any definition, in the automotive world, that’s at the very bottom of the rev range.
Given the above, I don’t see how a Base Carrera is a better car in a city environment.
Considering that the S cars make 17% more horsepower and 18% more torque. Oh, and that torque hits between 2000 and 2500RPM, where the S makes more torque than the Base car ever makes. By any definition, in the automotive world, that’s at the very bottom of the rev range.
Given the above, I don’t see how a Base Carrera is a better car in a city environment.
But seriously, here are C&D's results. The S is about .2 seconds faster. Dats a lot of money for .2 seconds....
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/
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sexfiend (05-20-2021)
05-17-2021, 12:24 AM
#52
The point is that the Carrera is not meaningfully lighter, if at all. It's clearly less powerful. The brakes are worse.
That said, it's ironic that you post how close the performance of the Carrera and Carrera S is. So on the one hand, the Carrera and Carrera S are super close in performance. On the other, Carrera S is way too fast for city driving to be enjoyed.
I have no dog in this hunt. I'll be trading in my C2S in a few months. I just find this whole Carrera thing a little weird.
I mean if it was a Carrera T -- stripped out, lightweight with a really nice 6 speed manual and smaller diameter wheels...ok, I can buy into that.
Last edited by rk-d; 05-17-2021 at 12:27 AM.
05-17-2021, 12:37 AM
#53
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My car is light, but it's not lightly equipped. Not by a long shot.
The point is that the Carrera is not meaningfully lighter, if at all. It's clearly less powerful. The brakes are worse.
That said, it's ironic that you post how close the performance of the Carrera and Carrera S is. So on the one hand, the Carrera and Carrera S are super close in performance. On the other, Carrera S is way too fast for city driving to be enjoyed.
I have no dog in this hunt. I'll be trading in my C2S in a few months. I just find this whole Carrera thing a little weird.
I mean if it was a Carrera T -- stripped out, lightweight with a really nice 6 speed manual and smaller diameter wheels...ok, I can buy into that.
The point is that the Carrera is not meaningfully lighter, if at all. It's clearly less powerful. The brakes are worse.
That said, it's ironic that you post how close the performance of the Carrera and Carrera S is. So on the one hand, the Carrera and Carrera S are super close in performance. On the other, Carrera S is way too fast for city driving to be enjoyed.
I have no dog in this hunt. I'll be trading in my C2S in a few months. I just find this whole Carrera thing a little weird.
I mean if it was a Carrera T -- stripped out, lightweight with a really nice 6 speed manual and smaller diameter wheels...ok, I can buy into that.
05-17-2021, 01:11 AM
#54
RL Community Team
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S
The extra cost over the base will be recovered on resale.
The extra cost over the base will be recovered on resale.
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detansinn (05-17-2021)
05-17-2021, 01:31 AM
#55
I had this same debate re base vs S and went with the S for 2 reasons: 1) no buyer’s remorse, wishing that I had just pulled the trigger and gotten the S and 2) tracking, which I did for the first time this weekend at the Nola Motor Speedway. Though I have never driven the base, what I can tell you that the S is a beast and was absolutely a blast to drive. What I lack in driving skill (which is substantial) the car compensated in a way that I would not ever believed had I not experienced it. Get what you want and love it.
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Tupper (05-17-2021)
05-17-2021, 03:29 PM
#56
On the street or highway, don't us Porsche drivers, the nicest people, mostly race SUVs and Japanese imports?
Anyone here tried to outrun M5, RS7, E63, or fellow Porsche 911 on the public road?
If so, how did that turn out?
For racing SUVs and Japanese imports, Base got WAY~ more than enough power, you will impress them dearly.
If you want that acceleration feel at launch, get an S.
Anyone tracking often, get a GT3 or turbo.
Common folks outside this forum and non-Porschephile neighbors will not be able to tell what you got is a base or S or Turbo S, it's just an expensive new 911, and reveals that you got too much money, that's it.
Anyone here tried to outrun M5, RS7, E63, or fellow Porsche 911 on the public road?
If so, how did that turn out?
For racing SUVs and Japanese imports, Base got WAY~ more than enough power, you will impress them dearly.
If you want that acceleration feel at launch, get an S.
Anyone tracking often, get a GT3 or turbo.
Common folks outside this forum and non-Porschephile neighbors will not be able to tell what you got is a base or S or Turbo S, it's just an expensive new 911, and reveals that you got too much money, that's it.
05-17-2021, 03:39 PM
#57
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
On the street or highway, don't us Porsche drivers, the nicest people, mostly race SUVs and Japanese imports?
Anyone here tried to outrun M5, RS7, E63, or fellow Porsche 911 on the public road?
If so, how did that turn out?
For racing SUVs and Japanese imports, Base got WAY~ more than enough power, you will impress them dearly.
If you want that acceleration feel at launch, get an S.
Anyone tracking often, get a GT3 or turbo.
Common folks outside this forum and non-Porschephile neighbors will not be able to tell what you got is a base or S or Turbo S, it's just an expensive new 911, and reveals that you got too much money, that's it.
Anyone here tried to outrun M5, RS7, E63, or fellow Porsche 911 on the public road?
If so, how did that turn out?
For racing SUVs and Japanese imports, Base got WAY~ more than enough power, you will impress them dearly.
If you want that acceleration feel at launch, get an S.
Anyone tracking often, get a GT3 or turbo.
Common folks outside this forum and non-Porschephile neighbors will not be able to tell what you got is a base or S or Turbo S, it's just an expensive new 911, and reveals that you got too much money, that's it.
I have better things to do with my time, and more respect for the public at-large than to street race to justify my choice of vehicular transportation.
05-17-2021, 05:58 PM
#58
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
On the street or highway, don't us Porsche drivers, the nicest people, mostly race SUVs and Japanese imports?
Anyone here tried to outrun M5, RS7, E63, or fellow Porsche 911 on the public road?
If so, how did that turn out?
For racing SUVs and Japanese imports, Base got WAY~ more than enough power, you will impress them dearly.
If you want that acceleration feel at launch, get an S.
Anyone tracking often, get a GT3 or turbo.
Common folks outside this forum and non-Porschephile neighbors will not be able to tell what you got is a base or S or Turbo S, it's just an expensive new 911, and reveals that you got too much money, that's it.
Anyone here tried to outrun M5, RS7, E63, or fellow Porsche 911 on the public road?
If so, how did that turn out?
For racing SUVs and Japanese imports, Base got WAY~ more than enough power, you will impress them dearly.
If you want that acceleration feel at launch, get an S.
Anyone tracking often, get a GT3 or turbo.
Common folks outside this forum and non-Porschephile neighbors will not be able to tell what you got is a base or S or Turbo S, it's just an expensive new 911, and reveals that you got too much money, that's it.
Well, the orange BMW M2 made himself known. As I exited the turn, I heard a crash behind me and saw that the BMW driver had plowed right into the guard rail. I stopped and checked to see that he was okay. He was, because he was shouting profanities at me and giving me the finger. That was my cue, to hop back in the Alfa and let this idiot sort his life out. If you're local to me, you now know why this section of guard rail was replaced.
Don't race people on the street. It's dumb and dangerous. It doesn't matter what car your driving. Buying car X or leasing BMW Y isn't going to grant you magic skills -- it doesn't make you a faster driver. Even in a straight line, you can get into trouble. There are so many "supercar" fails where two people are drag racing on the street. Here's one...
Nobody is impressed by the car that you drive or peacocking showboat nonsense. Once you get to the point where you understand and embrace that, life is so much better. I can't tell you how many times a car, SUV or Mini-van has punched it off the line next to one of my cars. I am sure that these folks are telling people that their car beat my car off the line, but who cares? It's not race. It's especially not a race when the other person isn't racing.
Do enjoy your own car. Do develop your own skills. Don't drive beyond your limits to outrun, chase, or try to impress anyone.
Don't be the dumb *** who ends up launching his car into a guard rail.
05-17-2021, 06:15 PM
#59
Don't race people on the street. It's dumb and dangerous. It doesn't matter what car your driving. Buying car X or leasing BMW Y isn't going to grant you magic skills -- it doesn't make you a faster driver. Even in a straight line, you can get into trouble. There are so many "supercar" fails where two people are drag racing on the street. Here's one...
Do enjoy your own car. Do develop your own skills. Don't drive beyond your limits to outrun, chase, or try to impress anyone.
Don't be the dumb *** who ends up launching his car into a guard rail.
Do enjoy your own car. Do develop your own skills. Don't drive beyond your limits to outrun, chase, or try to impress anyone.
Don't be the dumb *** who ends up launching his car into a guard rail.
You can't.
Such a thing cannot be called racing, maybe more like gently passing at slightly higher speed, not even at full throttle, probably half throttle.
That was my point.
If you are "racing", it would be with M5 or Corvette or what not.
That will be a racing and it would be insane thing to do.
Please re-read my post... maybe I wasn't very clear... I was trying to be half sarcastic...
05-17-2021, 06:37 PM
#60
You quoted me, and yet, I don't think you read what I wrote. And to compare your lightly equipped C2S vs a C2 highly optioned is an interesting comparison at best. And yes, slower, but how much? Keep reading below...
Just going by what I've read - that the engine in the base is more lively around town.
But seriously, here are C&D's results. The S is about .2 seconds faster. Dats a lot of money for .2 seconds....
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/
Just going by what I've read - that the engine in the base is more lively around town.
But seriously, here are C&D's results. The S is about .2 seconds faster. Dats a lot of money for .2 seconds....
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/
All this crap about the base Carrera being more fun or a better performer in this or that setting is just total BS.