The future of the 911
04-23-2021, 11:38 AM
#31
Rennlist Member
My "religion" is staying alive and well and also leaving the planet no worse, and hopefully better than before for future generations. I also listen to scientists about technical issues such as global climate change more than talk show pundits and social media. The ICE has become a dead end and its total costs too high to sustain. I have confidence that Porsche will continue to build well engineered and capable cars to meet this challenge. I just do not want to have to take a bus so driving an EV "911" may be the best solution until fuel cells or another technology become better!
04-23-2021, 01:00 PM
#32
Burning Brakes
One of the reasons I got a 992 is while we know what the future will look like, we don’t know when. If you have one, rejoice, you’re locked in. How much better can they make it in its current quasi-traditional formulation? Enthusiasts have been freaking since before the conversion to water cooling. All of us driving a water cooled 911 missed that boat. Yet I went for the most exhilarating drive in my 992 this a.m., I savored every second. The world is changing faster than it ever has, I don’t need to point that out. Be nimble and adapt.
FWIW, I’m convinced we’ll approach the holy grail of 911–s in the future in hybrid form. I’ve been enjoying my E-Hybrid for months now. Nothing like getting pushed back in your seat when you breathe on the gas. Yet I get ICE sounds and function. Yes it’s heavier but there’s little if any handling penalty, it’s actually kind of amazing. As technology moves forward the weight issue will melt away, much like the penalty that once existed for having a rear engine. Evolving battery tech is prime time. But if that doesn’t happen, enjoy your 992 and keep it in good shape. It’s not a bad fallback.
FWIW, I’m convinced we’ll approach the holy grail of 911–s in the future in hybrid form. I’ve been enjoying my E-Hybrid for months now. Nothing like getting pushed back in your seat when you breathe on the gas. Yet I get ICE sounds and function. Yes it’s heavier but there’s little if any handling penalty, it’s actually kind of amazing. As technology moves forward the weight issue will melt away, much like the penalty that once existed for having a rear engine. Evolving battery tech is prime time. But if that doesn’t happen, enjoy your 992 and keep it in good shape. It’s not a bad fallback.
04-23-2021, 04:16 PM
#33
When I go to Cars and Coffee, I see so many young car photographers and enthusiasts that I think that the assertion “kids don’t care about cars anymore” isn’t reality. Add in the number of millennials that I see driving 996s and older BMWs, the future looks very bright.
There is no government take over of cars coming or mandate for autonomous vehicles. We may reach a point where autonomous vehicles are cheaper to insure, but drivers will not be disappearing in our lifetime. Tesla seems to be doing their best to make autonomous vehicles so highly scrutinized and regulated that Elon may have single handedly set things back a decade. So, I wouldn’t give this much worry.
As for the switch to EVs, it’s already happening. If more EVs on the road allow us to enjoy our ICE 911s, great. There is a lot of infrastructure to be addressed, but governments are putting the pressure and dollars in to make it all happen.
Gas stations aren’t closing anytime soon, but I won’t be surprised to be paying north of $10/gallon as demand drops and taxes increase. The increase in gas prices isn’t going affect 911 owners — would you stop driving your car paying $10/gallon? I suspect that most 911 owners will simply pay it. Of course, the increase in fuel cost will affect the poor and put ICE cars out of reach of many households, but it wouldn’t be the first thing priced out of the American experience.
Porsche is pushing eFuels, because the rising prices for gasoline will probably make synthetic fuels cost effective within the next 15-20 years. eFuels are all about allowing enthusiasts, to be clear affluent enthusiasts, to continue to enjoy their ICE cars. When Porsche branded eFuel lands at $100 for a 5 gallon can, remember this post back from 2021.
There is no government take over of cars coming or mandate for autonomous vehicles. We may reach a point where autonomous vehicles are cheaper to insure, but drivers will not be disappearing in our lifetime. Tesla seems to be doing their best to make autonomous vehicles so highly scrutinized and regulated that Elon may have single handedly set things back a decade. So, I wouldn’t give this much worry.
As for the switch to EVs, it’s already happening. If more EVs on the road allow us to enjoy our ICE 911s, great. There is a lot of infrastructure to be addressed, but governments are putting the pressure and dollars in to make it all happen.
Gas stations aren’t closing anytime soon, but I won’t be surprised to be paying north of $10/gallon as demand drops and taxes increase. The increase in gas prices isn’t going affect 911 owners — would you stop driving your car paying $10/gallon? I suspect that most 911 owners will simply pay it. Of course, the increase in fuel cost will affect the poor and put ICE cars out of reach of many households, but it wouldn’t be the first thing priced out of the American experience.
Porsche is pushing eFuels, because the rising prices for gasoline will probably make synthetic fuels cost effective within the next 15-20 years. eFuels are all about allowing enthusiasts, to be clear affluent enthusiasts, to continue to enjoy their ICE cars. When Porsche branded eFuel lands at $100 for a 5 gallon can, remember this post back from 2021.
1. Thinking that the attitudes of Gen-Z can be ascertained by your experience at C&C and old E46 Beemers on the road is statistically irrelevant. If you want the data, go ask any driver's ed school what their 16-year old students think about driving. I'll give you this one bit of salient news - the majority of kids in driver's ed today are there because their parents made them go, not because they wanted to be there
2. The draft legislation to ban non-autonomous cars is already sitting on lobbyist desks. Look at how quickly the "ban all ICE sales after 2030" legislation is already gaining steam across the West. Banning the non-autonomous car outright will follow the same trajectory.
3. Thinking that your money will somehow insulate from annoyances like higher gas prices is unrealistic. The real hammer that government has here is registration fees. Suppose I told you that by year 202x, it will cost $1,000 to register your manned ICE car. Or $10,000. Or $50,000. They can make the number whatever they want, and sell it to the public as a "eat the rich supercar drivers that are killing the planet" initiative. What is your pain point for throwing in the towel and saying, "It just isn't worth it..."
4. eFuels, just lol. This technology is even further away than the oft-bandied, mythical "graphene battery" that every electric shill trots out to deflect criticism. Long before it's ready to come to market, the car will have become a third rail of politics, as divisive a topic as firearm ownership. They'll run stories every single night on the cable news networks about how some evil manned car driver killed somebody in yet another accident.
5. When we have to give up our ICE 911s in a government-mandated buyback scheme, remember this post from 2021.
04-23-2021, 04:33 PM
#34
^^^ 
04-23-2021, 04:39 PM
#35
The thing that bothers me the most about the move from ICE to “battery power” be that hybrid, super capacitor or full Duracell is the ethical impact.
ICE cars generally don’t require many rare materials, electric cars are full of them, light weight stuff and the power plant that gets its raw materials from dubious sources.
I’m generalising a bit, but I feel the fuel changes/advancements could be the way forward, plus it might start hurting that OPEC monopoly which isn’t a bad thing.
ICE cars generally don’t require many rare materials, electric cars are full of them, light weight stuff and the power plant that gets its raw materials from dubious sources.
I’m generalising a bit, but I feel the fuel changes/advancements could be the way forward, plus it might start hurting that OPEC monopoly which isn’t a bad thing.
04-23-2021, 04:56 PM
#36
When I go to Cars and Coffee, I see so many young car photographers and enthusiasts that I think that the assertion “kids don’t care about cars anymore” isn’t reality. Add in the number of millennials that I see driving 996s and older BMWs, the future looks very bright.
There is no government take over of cars coming or mandate for autonomous vehicles. We may reach a point where autonomous vehicles are cheaper to insure, but drivers will not be disappearing in our lifetime. Tesla seems to be doing their best to make autonomous vehicles so highly scrutinized and regulated that Elon may have single handedly set things back a decade. So, I wouldn’t give this much worry.
As for the switch to EVs, it’s already happening. If more EVs on the road allow us to enjoy our ICE 911s, great. There is a lot of infrastructure to be addressed, but governments are putting the pressure and dollars in to make it all happen.
Gas stations aren’t closing anytime soon, but I won’t be surprised to be paying north of $10/gallon as demand drops and taxes increase. The increase in gas prices isn’t going affect 911 owners — would you stop driving your car paying $10/gallon? I suspect that most 911 owners will simply pay it. Of course, the increase in fuel cost will affect the poor and put ICE cars out of reach of many households, but it wouldn’t be the first thing priced out of the American experience.
Porsche is pushing eFuels, because the rising prices for gasoline will probably make synthetic fuels cost effective within the next 15-20 years. eFuels are all about allowing enthusiasts, to be clear affluent enthusiasts, to continue to enjoy their ICE cars. When Porsche branded eFuel lands at $100 for a 5 gallon can, remember this post back from 2021.
There is no government take over of cars coming or mandate for autonomous vehicles. We may reach a point where autonomous vehicles are cheaper to insure, but drivers will not be disappearing in our lifetime. Tesla seems to be doing their best to make autonomous vehicles so highly scrutinized and regulated that Elon may have single handedly set things back a decade. So, I wouldn’t give this much worry.
As for the switch to EVs, it’s already happening. If more EVs on the road allow us to enjoy our ICE 911s, great. There is a lot of infrastructure to be addressed, but governments are putting the pressure and dollars in to make it all happen.
Gas stations aren’t closing anytime soon, but I won’t be surprised to be paying north of $10/gallon as demand drops and taxes increase. The increase in gas prices isn’t going affect 911 owners — would you stop driving your car paying $10/gallon? I suspect that most 911 owners will simply pay it. Of course, the increase in fuel cost will affect the poor and put ICE cars out of reach of many households, but it wouldn’t be the first thing priced out of the American experience.
Porsche is pushing eFuels, because the rising prices for gasoline will probably make synthetic fuels cost effective within the next 15-20 years. eFuels are all about allowing enthusiasts, to be clear affluent enthusiasts, to continue to enjoy their ICE cars. When Porsche branded eFuel lands at $100 for a 5 gallon can, remember this post back from 2021.
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04-23-2021, 05:46 PM
#37
Instructor
I'm sorry dude, but your post is so wrong and full of wishful thinking I could write a novel.
1. Thinking that the attitudes of Gen-Z can be ascertained by your experience at C&C and old E46 Beemers on the road is statistically irrelevant. If you want the data, go ask any driver's ed school what their 16-year old students think about driving. I'll give you this one bit of salient news - the majority of kids in driver's ed today are there because their parents made them go, not because they wanted to be there
1. Thinking that the attitudes of Gen-Z can be ascertained by your experience at C&C and old E46 Beemers on the road is statistically irrelevant. If you want the data, go ask any driver's ed school what their 16-year old students think about driving. I'll give you this one bit of salient news - the majority of kids in driver's ed today are there because their parents made them go, not because they wanted to be there
In much of the USA outside of metros, you can't have an independent life without a car. It will be no different for Gen-Z
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detansinn (04-23-2021)
04-23-2021, 05:57 PM
#38
Burning Brakes
Since coffee is verboten behind the Zion Curtain, it’s more like Cars and Soda here.
I promise you they’ll be running ICE cars in Utah long after we’re gone. We still have an abundance of homes heated with coal and wood. If I’m wrong, there are really nice places in Russia, plenty of room for tracks too. Find something else to worry about.
I promise you they’ll be running ICE cars in Utah long after we’re gone. We still have an abundance of homes heated with coal and wood. If I’m wrong, there are really nice places in Russia, plenty of room for tracks too. Find something else to worry about.
04-23-2021, 07:37 PM
#39
Even in California, we're not going to ban anything before 2035. And even then, there will still be a long tail of classic / used cars and restomods for years to come. It's going to be okay.
04-23-2021, 10:33 PM
#40
Drifting
I'm sorry dude, but your post is so wrong and full of wishful thinking I could write a novel.
1. Thinking that the attitudes of Gen-Z can be ascertained by your experience at C&C and old E46 Beemers on the road is statistically irrelevant. If you want the data, go ask any driver's ed school what their 16-year old students think about driving. I'll give you this one bit of salient news - the majority of kids in driver's ed today are there because their parents made them go, not because they wanted to be there
2. The draft legislation to ban non-autonomous cars is already sitting on lobbyist desks. Look at how quickly the "ban all ICE sales after 2030" legislation is already gaining steam across the West. Banning the non-autonomous car outright will follow the same trajectory.
3. Thinking that your money will somehow insulate from annoyances like higher gas prices is unrealistic. The real hammer that government has here is registration fees. Suppose I told you that by year 202x, it will cost $1,000 to register your manned ICE car. Or $10,000. Or $50,000. They can make the number whatever they want, and sell it to the public as a "eat the rich supercar drivers that are killing the planet" initiative. What is your pain point for throwing in the towel and saying, "It just isn't worth it..."
4. eFuels, just lol. This technology is even further away than the oft-bandied, mythical "graphene battery" that every electric shill trots out to deflect criticism. Long before it's ready to come to market, the car will have become a third rail of politics, as divisive a topic as firearm ownership. They'll run stories every single night on the cable news networks about how some evil manned car driver killed somebody in yet another accident.
5. When we have to give up our ICE 911s in a government-mandated buyback scheme, remember this post from 2021.
1. Thinking that the attitudes of Gen-Z can be ascertained by your experience at C&C and old E46 Beemers on the road is statistically irrelevant. If you want the data, go ask any driver's ed school what their 16-year old students think about driving. I'll give you this one bit of salient news - the majority of kids in driver's ed today are there because their parents made them go, not because they wanted to be there
2. The draft legislation to ban non-autonomous cars is already sitting on lobbyist desks. Look at how quickly the "ban all ICE sales after 2030" legislation is already gaining steam across the West. Banning the non-autonomous car outright will follow the same trajectory.
3. Thinking that your money will somehow insulate from annoyances like higher gas prices is unrealistic. The real hammer that government has here is registration fees. Suppose I told you that by year 202x, it will cost $1,000 to register your manned ICE car. Or $10,000. Or $50,000. They can make the number whatever they want, and sell it to the public as a "eat the rich supercar drivers that are killing the planet" initiative. What is your pain point for throwing in the towel and saying, "It just isn't worth it..."
4. eFuels, just lol. This technology is even further away than the oft-bandied, mythical "graphene battery" that every electric shill trots out to deflect criticism. Long before it's ready to come to market, the car will have become a third rail of politics, as divisive a topic as firearm ownership. They'll run stories every single night on the cable news networks about how some evil manned car driver killed somebody in yet another accident.
5. When we have to give up our ICE 911s in a government-mandated buyback scheme, remember this post from 2021.
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Adr (04-28-2021)
04-27-2021, 07:10 PM
#41
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Donut did a nice eFuel rundown...
