Miami Blue and PTS
10-25-2020, 02:23 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Miami Blue and PTS
Here’s the story to date: I began to realize in late July that the preferred color of my new C2S, Miami Blue, was being discontinued. I reached out to my local dealer and he claims to have spent a couple weeks trying for an allocation what would fit with the timeline of availability for the color (that specific availability timeline apparently shrouded in cluelessness).
After a couple of weeks of waiting for a concrete answer from the local dealer, I started reaching out to others and found a dealer who thought they could trade for an allocation that would allow the MB exterior. He got a trade from the east coast after about a month (now late September), got a commission number, and I even got a TYD invite with an actual car and timeline (mid October build).
By this time, I had also talked with PCNA and was told by them that the builds needed to occur before December 4.
The TYD invite came on Friday September 25. The car was still the originally specified configuration which the dealer obtained in trade. The SA told me they would be working on getting the configuration updated early the following week (lock date was October 8). On Tuesday, September 29 the SA reached out to me and said PAG/PCNA issued a V code stating not approved. They were told by PCNA that the last MB car got painted September 25. That day the TYD disappeared from my Porsche account.
With that background, we’re now looking at PTS. I’ve chosen a color and the SA tells me they now need to see if two special requests can be accommodated (mirrors painted body color and sport design package in gloss black). Once they get that figured out, they tell me they will need to attempt to get an allocation which includes PTS, which is, according to them, limited. They think they can get one within the next month or two and expect the car would be her late summer 2021.
Being OCD, I’ve been doing as much research on the PTS process as possible and on the GT3 forum, there’s some discussion and back in September they were talking about only four slots per month, I don’t know if that’s specific to those cars or what but certainly, based on how this has gone so far, I’m concerned this is even achievable.
This is a car I’ve worked hard to fund for a number of years, it’ll be my second Porsche (I’ve had a G body for fifteen years) and it’ll be my last car so I want what I want, though timing’s not that critical.
Thank you in advance for any insights or advice that you may be able to provide.
After a couple of weeks of waiting for a concrete answer from the local dealer, I started reaching out to others and found a dealer who thought they could trade for an allocation that would allow the MB exterior. He got a trade from the east coast after about a month (now late September), got a commission number, and I even got a TYD invite with an actual car and timeline (mid October build).
By this time, I had also talked with PCNA and was told by them that the builds needed to occur before December 4.
The TYD invite came on Friday September 25. The car was still the originally specified configuration which the dealer obtained in trade. The SA told me they would be working on getting the configuration updated early the following week (lock date was October 8). On Tuesday, September 29 the SA reached out to me and said PAG/PCNA issued a V code stating not approved. They were told by PCNA that the last MB car got painted September 25. That day the TYD disappeared from my Porsche account.
With that background, we’re now looking at PTS. I’ve chosen a color and the SA tells me they now need to see if two special requests can be accommodated (mirrors painted body color and sport design package in gloss black). Once they get that figured out, they tell me they will need to attempt to get an allocation which includes PTS, which is, according to them, limited. They think they can get one within the next month or two and expect the car would be her late summer 2021.
Being OCD, I’ve been doing as much research on the PTS process as possible and on the GT3 forum, there’s some discussion and back in September they were talking about only four slots per month, I don’t know if that’s specific to those cars or what but certainly, based on how this has gone so far, I’m concerned this is even achievable.
This is a car I’ve worked hard to fund for a number of years, it’ll be my second Porsche (I’ve had a G body for fifteen years) and it’ll be my last car so I want what I want, though timing’s not that critical.
Thank you in advance for any insights or advice that you may be able to provide.
10-25-2020, 03:07 PM
#2
Three Wheelin'
I have no insight or wisdom, just empathy for your situation as a fellow fan of Miami Blue.
My first Porsche, a Boxster in 1998, was a whole production because I wanted a green one and they wouldn't do it in green, even PTS. For the '99 model year they offered a color that worked for me (Forest Green Metallic) so all was well eventually. With the current car, MB is my choice and I'd consider canceling (the wait for EPA approval is absurd--my car, like those of many others, has been sitting at the port a short 45-minute drive from my house for nearly two months) except for the fact that I want MB and don't want to go through the machinations and seemingly opaque process of getting a PTS car. And that's even before one considers the absurd pricing.
Good luck--I hope it works out for you in the long run!
My first Porsche, a Boxster in 1998, was a whole production because I wanted a green one and they wouldn't do it in green, even PTS. For the '99 model year they offered a color that worked for me (Forest Green Metallic) so all was well eventually. With the current car, MB is my choice and I'd consider canceling (the wait for EPA approval is absurd--my car, like those of many others, has been sitting at the port a short 45-minute drive from my house for nearly two months) except for the fact that I want MB and don't want to go through the machinations and seemingly opaque process of getting a PTS car. And that's even before one considers the absurd pricing.
Good luck--I hope it works out for you in the long run!
10-25-2020, 04:12 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
Wow, that’s really a shame. You certainly held up your end. You could write a note to the head
of customer service and explain your situation. I have his email address if interested (PM me). It seems like your SA is also trying for you and hope it works out.
of customer service and explain your situation. I have his email address if interested (PM me). It seems like your SA is also trying for you and hope it works out.
10-25-2020, 10:11 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Mark and Dan,
Thank you both for the kind thoughts, most appreciated. Both the dealer and SA have been most helpful, I think they're also equally pretty frustrated with both PAG and PCNA for the confusion about the MB availability and timing as well as the inability to determine timing of the response to the CXX options and the availability of the PTS allocations.
Mark, I've been watching the ridiculous debacle of the EPA/CARB delays and completely empathize with the frustration there. I only presume once that's over and you've got your car (and others have theirs) the annoyance will fade with the enjoyment of such a great car (and killer color)!
Best,
Karl
Thank you both for the kind thoughts, most appreciated. Both the dealer and SA have been most helpful, I think they're also equally pretty frustrated with both PAG and PCNA for the confusion about the MB availability and timing as well as the inability to determine timing of the response to the CXX options and the availability of the PTS allocations.
Mark, I've been watching the ridiculous debacle of the EPA/CARB delays and completely empathize with the frustration there. I only presume once that's over and you've got your car (and others have theirs) the annoyance will fade with the enjoyment of such a great car (and killer color)!
Best,
Karl
10-25-2020, 11:04 PM
#5
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2020
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@svkarl Very sorry about your setbacks. I sincerely hope you'll end up with dream car sooner rather than later without any further ****-ups from Porsche.
One question: Is the pending approval for the "two special requests" related to the PTS itself? The reason why I'm asking is that shouldn't the sport design package in gloss black and the mirrors painted in body color be otherwise considered like any other option, as they are listed on the normal options list? I would assume, and according my understanding from the past, a CXX option to be something out of ordinary, a special wish that the customer requests outside of the normal offering of options. For instance, 992's inner roof material to be changed to perforated leather instead of alcantara or an interior item that is not mentioned on the options list to be painted in body color etc.. Is this indeed one of the quirks of the PTS (you'd think one wouldn't have to worry about such things, when willing to shell out the already outrageous price) or is something in the ordering process inherently different in the U.S compared to us Europeans? (In which case, I sincerely apologize for my ignorance.)
One question: Is the pending approval for the "two special requests" related to the PTS itself? The reason why I'm asking is that shouldn't the sport design package in gloss black and the mirrors painted in body color be otherwise considered like any other option, as they are listed on the normal options list? I would assume, and according my understanding from the past, a CXX option to be something out of ordinary, a special wish that the customer requests outside of the normal offering of options. For instance, 992's inner roof material to be changed to perforated leather instead of alcantara or an interior item that is not mentioned on the options list to be painted in body color etc.. Is this indeed one of the quirks of the PTS (you'd think one wouldn't have to worry about such things, when willing to shell out the already outrageous price) or is something in the ordering process inherently different in the U.S compared to us Europeans? (In which case, I sincerely apologize for my ignorance.)
Last edited by TheGreatJ; 10-25-2020 at 11:07 PM.
10-26-2020, 02:41 AM
#6
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
TheGreatJ, no ignorance at all. Here’s how it seems to be working: while you are correct that painted mirrors and SD in gloss black are indeed on the configuration, once PTS is selected up pops a dialog box indicating either those two options need to go away or a non PTS color needs to be selected. The GM and SA tell me that means they have to specially request these options via Exclusive Design, apparently then making them CXX. Makes no sense but that’s what I’m being told. That inquiry/request takes an unknown amount of time and if approved I’m told only would be available at a cost surcharge above those options listed cost, so there’s that too.
Karl
Karl
10-26-2020, 10:35 PM
#7
why not just order the car and have a body shop match the PTS color on the mirrors, skip the headache of telling the factory how to paint the car. Exclusive design is for fully custom work, like unusual finishes and materials.
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10-26-2020, 11:57 PM
#8
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
@svkarl Very sorry about your setbacks. I sincerely hope you'll end up with dream car sooner rather than later without any further ****-ups from Porsche.
One question: Is the pending approval for the "two special requests" related to the PTS itself? The reason why I'm asking is that shouldn't the sport design package in gloss black and the mirrors painted in body color be otherwise considered like any other option, as they are listed on the normal options list? I would assume, and according my understanding from the past, a CXX option to be something out of ordinary, a special wish that the customer requests outside of the normal offering of options. For instance, 992's inner roof material to be changed to perforated leather instead of alcantara or an interior item that is not mentioned on the options list to be painted in body color etc.. Is this indeed one of the quirks of the PTS (you'd think one wouldn't have to worry about such things, when willing to shell out the already outrageous price) or is something in the ordering process inherently different in the U.S compared to us Europeans? (In which case, I sincerely apologize for my ignorance.)
One question: Is the pending approval for the "two special requests" related to the PTS itself? The reason why I'm asking is that shouldn't the sport design package in gloss black and the mirrors painted in body color be otherwise considered like any other option, as they are listed on the normal options list? I would assume, and according my understanding from the past, a CXX option to be something out of ordinary, a special wish that the customer requests outside of the normal offering of options. For instance, 992's inner roof material to be changed to perforated leather instead of alcantara or an interior item that is not mentioned on the options list to be painted in body color etc.. Is this indeed one of the quirks of the PTS (you'd think one wouldn't have to worry about such things, when willing to shell out the already outrageous price) or is something in the ordering process inherently different in the U.S compared to us Europeans? (In which case, I sincerely apologize for my ignorance.)
If you go PTS, you can throw out anything on the normal configurator that is painted.
Normal Spyder has interior trim in exterior color at no charge. If you go PTS the dash trim was
around $3000 extra. Door trim was not available.
Another data point; roll bars in exterior are about $600 normally. PTS was still examining feasibility and no pricing was available.
I could go on, but I think you get the point.
PTS...if ever approved and allocated...was going to cost somewhere between $16-20K more.
Anyway, I bailed...my RY 2021 Spyder is now in Houston.
They ought to publish the costs, procedures, and limitations up front. Lots of emails between my SA and Porsche exclusive and flip flops.
Good luck!
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TheGreatJ (10-27-2020)
10-27-2020, 12:34 AM
#9
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I'm thinking I'll give it another week or so then have them pull the supposed CXX items and proceed with determination of whether they can get a PTS allocation. Black mirror bases and standard finish fascias are not a giant deal and I certainly can get them painted the way I want post delivery. Certainly the lack of available processes/costs is making what should be a pretty enjoyable experience somewhat annoying; it really does not need to be this difficult.
Karl
Karl
10-27-2020, 08:20 PM
#10
Racer
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TheGreatJ, no ignorance at all. Here’s how it seems to be working: while you are correct that painted mirrors and SD in gloss black are indeed on the configuration, once PTS is selected up pops a dialog box indicating either those two options need to go away or a non PTS color needs to be selected. The GM and SA tell me that means they have to specially request these options via Exclusive Design, apparently then making them CXX. Makes no sense but that’s what I’m being told. That inquiry/request takes an unknown amount of time and if approved I’m told only would be available at a cost surcharge above those options listed cost, so there’s that too.
Karl
Karl
Let me jump in here...I was working a PTS Spyder for a couple of months and eventually dropped out.
If you go PTS, you can throw out anything on the normal configurator that is painted.
....
I could go on, but I think you get the point.
....
They ought to publish the costs, procedures, and limitations up front. Lots of emails between my SA and Porsche exclusive and flip flops.
Good luck!
If you go PTS, you can throw out anything on the normal configurator that is painted.
....
I could go on, but I think you get the point.
....
They ought to publish the costs, procedures, and limitations up front. Lots of emails between my SA and Porsche exclusive and flip flops.
Good luck!
Last edited by TheGreatJ; 10-27-2020 at 08:21 PM.
10-30-2020, 07:39 AM
#11
Rennlist Member
Not knowing much about the process I think they may make PTS so exclusive and difficult to ensure efficient production maybe. If a PTS car required additional time in say mixing of paint and chemicals to match that specific color and additional expertise then it may take additional time on the production line which they wish to keep at a minimum maybe? Thus the added costs for their time and loss in production maybe since they are considering it a custom built car and are doing larger numbers than others which may more easily accomodate them like Rolls Royce or Ferrari maybe or Aston Martin or McLauren maybe. Just a thought.
10-31-2020, 03:41 AM
#12
Poseur
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I went with a PTS car several years ago (997S Cabriolet) and it was complicated by (1) it was a factory delivery and (2) it was still early in the 997 days so they were very hesitant to do a lot of colors in PTS. I had to wait over 9 months to get the car. Porsche can be a PITA but as you're an old Porsche guy, you already know that. Stick to your guns (which I did) and eventually it will work out. They are clearly pricing PTS ridiculously so as to keep the majority of buyers from considering it. I think it's really unfortunate as Porsche has some terrific colors and a great paint shop there in Zuffenhausen. Hang in there and good luck!
10-31-2020, 03:26 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Dan,
Thank you for the encouragement! While instant gratification is always nice, as this is the only time I'm doing this, I'm committed to holding out for what I want, which was Miami Blue and now since that's not available has to be PTS in something similar (probably Riviera) or something not so similar but which looks really good to me (Oslo). The fall back if this takes forever, is seeing what Shark looks like. The rumor mill (separate thread) seems to imply it is (or is similar to) VW's cornflower blue, which could work, if unlike most information on the interweb, there's any fact to it.
Best,
Karl
Thank you for the encouragement! While instant gratification is always nice, as this is the only time I'm doing this, I'm committed to holding out for what I want, which was Miami Blue and now since that's not available has to be PTS in something similar (probably Riviera) or something not so similar but which looks really good to me (Oslo). The fall back if this takes forever, is seeing what Shark looks like. The rumor mill (separate thread) seems to imply it is (or is similar to) VW's cornflower blue, which could work, if unlike most information on the interweb, there's any fact to it.
Best,
Karl
10-31-2020, 04:07 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
Dan,
Thank you for the encouragement! While instant gratification is always nice, as this is the only time I'm doing this, I'm committed to holding out for what I want, which was Miami Blue and now since that's not available has to be PTS in something similar (probably Riviera) or something not so similar but which looks really good to me (Oslo). The fall back if this takes forever, is seeing what Shark looks like. The rumor mill (separate thread) seems to imply it is (or is similar to) VW's cornflower blue, which could work, if unlike most information on the interweb, there's any fact to it.
Best,
Karl
Thank you for the encouragement! While instant gratification is always nice, as this is the only time I'm doing this, I'm committed to holding out for what I want, which was Miami Blue and now since that's not available has to be PTS in something similar (probably Riviera) or something not so similar but which looks really good to me (Oslo). The fall back if this takes forever, is seeing what Shark looks like. The rumor mill (separate thread) seems to imply it is (or is similar to) VW's cornflower blue, which could work, if unlike most information on the interweb, there's any fact to it.
Best,
Karl
10-31-2020, 04:13 PM
#15
Yeah, shark blue could be awesome. It should be introduced soon since Miami Blue is out of production. I was hot to do Miami Blue on this one as well, but I’ve had so many blue cars and my bimmer is blue, so after hours in the configurator, went with aventurine green. It’s great and love it, but the next one is going to be a bright color. I saw a 992 in yellow and looked awesome, but probably viper green or shark blue. PTS would be a stretch for me. I am a visual learner - need to see it first.