Cancel Order? Because of Corona Virus Fallout?
03-19-2020, 07:56 PM
#106
3/19/2020 News Conference....Covid-19
11:47: *TRUMP SAYS FDA HAS APPROVED CHLOROQUINE FOR USE IN COVID-19
11:48: *TRUMP SAYS STILL COLLECTING EVIDENCE OF CHLOROQUINE EFFICACY
11:48: *TRUMP SAYS CHLOROQUINE RISKS LOW AND ARE WELL-KNOWN
12:12: *FDA SAYS IT HAS NOT APPROVED CHLOROQUINE FOR COVID-19 USE
_________________________________________________________________
'15 Jet Black 991TT
11:47: *TRUMP SAYS FDA HAS APPROVED CHLOROQUINE FOR USE IN COVID-19
11:48: *TRUMP SAYS STILL COLLECTING EVIDENCE OF CHLOROQUINE EFFICACY
11:48: *TRUMP SAYS CHLOROQUINE RISKS LOW AND ARE WELL-KNOWN
12:12: *FDA SAYS IT HAS NOT APPROVED CHLOROQUINE FOR COVID-19 USE
_________________________________________________________________
'15 Jet Black 991TT
HCQ is available over the counter in most countries without an MD prescription, and has been used off label in the US for arthritis and other autoimmune conditions for over 60 years. If given proper guidance as to dose and length of treatment by our health authorities, similar to the South Korean and Belgian guidelines, MDs in the US could start prescribing it tomorrow, with the understanding that if the larger trials prove negative, the prescribing could stop. We do this all the time with anti-cancer drugs, as Steve Hahn (the radiation therapist currently running the FDA) knows quite well. This could start literally tomorrow. What do we have to lose? That is what Trump was trying to say, but he's a politician, not a doctor.
03-19-2020, 09:49 PM
#107
Simply put they have much more control over their population than countries like the US. When they went into lockdown, it was a full lockdown and it has not been fully released yet. There were videos circulating showing them physically chaining doors shut in apartment complexes. As soon as they release their population their numbers will begin to spike again. I
03-19-2020, 10:14 PM
#108
Last posting on Covid19
1. Small study highlighted, trial design was not terribly good (lot of holes in the design) and the compound appears to be more effective at preventing viral shedding than it does at actually treating the virus. Larger study certainly needed to see if the drug actually works against the virus. Also, important to note that the French study that has been discussed (most recently on Hannity last night) was not as euphoric as some make it seen. Nearly 25% drop out rate, 1 person died, 3 sent to ICU. So… a lot of questions still to be answered. Hard to trust Wuhan study as they tried everything along HQC
2. Fedex CEO is trying to prop up their ****ty stock as China is not back to full capacity yet. Diesel/Gas demand is 48% of Pre Corona levels, Jet Fuel 7% for Pre Covid19, Air pollution still abnormally low (implies activity is still slow), 90% of large factories are open (ex Hubei) and SMB around 60% (ex Hubei), Migration by cell phone trackers show slow activity. Overall, barring secondary wave of infection, Chinese economy would well in second half of the year. Internet stocks such as e-com and gaming are having a great time.
3. USA had more # of cases of SARS than South Korea. Also, the crisis was in 2003 not 2008 as per your post. Yet South Korea saw what was happening in China and they decided to prepare for it. USA and CDC are considered top notch and they had 2 month heads up to prepare for it. WSJ had a good story on botch by the government https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-was...d=hp_lead_pos5). It also doesn't help when President says it is milder than flu and it is going to disappear one day like a miracle. Please send me the link to WHO transcript as I do not see in this one (https://www.who.int/docs/default-sou...rsn=1f444736_4)
4. Feel free to try anything (not on me). We shall see the data in a month and perhaps do a private chat (do not post anymore just send me PM)
I am not negative on every possible advance as globally some very smart people are working together as a team and may figure out something as it would be a mild depression but would bounce very quickly if something sticks. In the meantime, I would not surprised by another 20% stock market correction, 2Q GDP -12%, Boeing will require government bailout and unemployment at 9%-12% by summer.
Again, this is a Porshce 992 forum, but with those caveats:
(1) What exactly are the issues with the French study, if you could explain in more detail? Do you also have issues with the preclinical rationale of the study? Do you have issues with reports of a 100 patient experience in Wuhan where CHLQ reduced hospital stay times for COVID pneumonias and resulted in viral clearance? Why is CHLQ and HCQ part of the current COVID treatment guidelines for China, South Korea, and Belgium, where individuals with COVID 19 mild to moderate symptoms are being prescribed the drug for a week? Are they somehow wrong?
(2) I agree China is not completely back to normal, but apparently the chair of Fedex was on today saying that Chinese service is nearly back to pre-epidemic levels. What do you make of that? The models also suggest that 100% compliance with social distancing is not needed, but 80% may be enough, especially if the families of affected people stay home. Thoughts on that?
(3) Can you name another developed country (other than South Korea, Japan, Singapore, HK, and Taiwan which were burned by SARS a decade ago) where testing is widespread and available? Perhaps you should read a transcript of today's WHO briefing, which suggests that just about nobody else has the capacity for widespread automated testing other than some East Asian countries burned by SARS in 2008.
(4) Kalera (an antiviral AIDS med combo) was a bust in a New England Journal of Medicine article out tonight. The Gilead antiviral drug is interesting, but it is toxic, expensive, hard to administer, and in very limited quantities. It is also not FDA approved.
(5) HCQ is available over the counter in most countries without an MD prescription, and has been used off label in the US for arthritis and other autoimmune conditions for over 60 years. If given proper guidance as to dose and length of treatment by our health authorities, similar to the South Korean and Belgian guidelines, MDs in the US could start prescribing it tomorrow, with the understanding that if the larger trials prove negative, the prescribing could stop. We do this all the time with anti-cancer drugs, as Steve Hahn (the radiation therapist currently running the FDA) knows quite well. This could start literally tomorrow. What do we have to lose? That is what Trump was trying to say, but he's a politician, not a doctor.
In a time like this, one could crawl down in a hole, think negatively about every possible advance, and panic as if the world is about to end. Alternatively, one can take a hard look at the existing data, take a calculated risk with the ability to pull back if it doesn't work, and have hope.
I choose the latter.
(1) What exactly are the issues with the French study, if you could explain in more detail? Do you also have issues with the preclinical rationale of the study? Do you have issues with reports of a 100 patient experience in Wuhan where CHLQ reduced hospital stay times for COVID pneumonias and resulted in viral clearance? Why is CHLQ and HCQ part of the current COVID treatment guidelines for China, South Korea, and Belgium, where individuals with COVID 19 mild to moderate symptoms are being prescribed the drug for a week? Are they somehow wrong?
(2) I agree China is not completely back to normal, but apparently the chair of Fedex was on today saying that Chinese service is nearly back to pre-epidemic levels. What do you make of that? The models also suggest that 100% compliance with social distancing is not needed, but 80% may be enough, especially if the families of affected people stay home. Thoughts on that?
(3) Can you name another developed country (other than South Korea, Japan, Singapore, HK, and Taiwan which were burned by SARS a decade ago) where testing is widespread and available? Perhaps you should read a transcript of today's WHO briefing, which suggests that just about nobody else has the capacity for widespread automated testing other than some East Asian countries burned by SARS in 2008.
(4) Kalera (an antiviral AIDS med combo) was a bust in a New England Journal of Medicine article out tonight. The Gilead antiviral drug is interesting, but it is toxic, expensive, hard to administer, and in very limited quantities. It is also not FDA approved.
(5) HCQ is available over the counter in most countries without an MD prescription, and has been used off label in the US for arthritis and other autoimmune conditions for over 60 years. If given proper guidance as to dose and length of treatment by our health authorities, similar to the South Korean and Belgian guidelines, MDs in the US could start prescribing it tomorrow, with the understanding that if the larger trials prove negative, the prescribing could stop. We do this all the time with anti-cancer drugs, as Steve Hahn (the radiation therapist currently running the FDA) knows quite well. This could start literally tomorrow. What do we have to lose? That is what Trump was trying to say, but he's a politician, not a doctor.
In a time like this, one could crawl down in a hole, think negatively about every possible advance, and panic as if the world is about to end. Alternatively, one can take a hard look at the existing data, take a calculated risk with the ability to pull back if it doesn't work, and have hope.
I choose the latter.
2. Fedex CEO is trying to prop up their ****ty stock as China is not back to full capacity yet. Diesel/Gas demand is 48% of Pre Corona levels, Jet Fuel 7% for Pre Covid19, Air pollution still abnormally low (implies activity is still slow), 90% of large factories are open (ex Hubei) and SMB around 60% (ex Hubei), Migration by cell phone trackers show slow activity. Overall, barring secondary wave of infection, Chinese economy would well in second half of the year. Internet stocks such as e-com and gaming are having a great time.
3. USA had more # of cases of SARS than South Korea. Also, the crisis was in 2003 not 2008 as per your post. Yet South Korea saw what was happening in China and they decided to prepare for it. USA and CDC are considered top notch and they had 2 month heads up to prepare for it. WSJ had a good story on botch by the government https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-was...d=hp_lead_pos5). It also doesn't help when President says it is milder than flu and it is going to disappear one day like a miracle. Please send me the link to WHO transcript as I do not see in this one (https://www.who.int/docs/default-sou...rsn=1f444736_4)
4. Feel free to try anything (not on me). We shall see the data in a month and perhaps do a private chat (do not post anymore just send me PM)
I am not negative on every possible advance as globally some very smart people are working together as a team and may figure out something as it would be a mild depression but would bounce very quickly if something sticks. In the meantime, I would not surprised by another 20% stock market correction, 2Q GDP -12%, Boeing will require government bailout and unemployment at 9%-12% by summer.
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AlexCeres (03-20-2020)
03-20-2020, 12:29 AM
#109
That said, I am glad there is a positive signal here and I agree with the plan to use it in confirmed COVID-19
I've come to the conclusion that this virus will run its course. We cannot indefinitely protect an immunologically naive population from a novel virus. Quarantines work, but you can't quarantine forever. Eventually some degree of herd immunity occurs as the virus cycles through the population. We hope to extend that process to make it tolerable, but short of a breakthrough treatment - I suspect most will get infected, some unknowingly.
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eyedoc (03-20-2020)
03-20-2020, 01:27 AM
#110
Three Wheelin'
We just need to wait for more test results from the latest treatments that are being tried. Making broad predictions at this point are kind of pointless, I think.
03-20-2020, 01:34 AM
#111
Not quite. The theory is that the virus uses the ACE2 protein in the cells of the lung to attach and invade. ACE inhibitors like lisinopril theoretically increase these receptors in the lung, making it more likely that the COVID 19 virus can attach and grow. Thus, if you replace it with another anti-hypertensive drug, you may be less suspectible. Mind you, this is only a theory. Thus the confusion.
However, there are currently trials ongoing in China and South Korea of an old anti-malarial drug (hydroxychloroquine) that blocks ACE2 expression in the lung. Early rumors are that this may work as treatment of COVID 19 pneumonia, and we can only hope that when these results are released in a few weeks we can have some hope here for those affected.
However, there are currently trials ongoing in China and South Korea of an old anti-malarial drug (hydroxychloroquine) that blocks ACE2 expression in the lung. Early rumors are that this may work as treatment of COVID 19 pneumonia, and we can only hope that when these results are released in a few weeks we can have some hope here for those affected.
Interesting bit of physiology with hydroxychloroquines and Covid19. But like most drugs, hydroxychloroquines as a drug class have their own issues, unfortunately. Risk vs benefit dilemma. But it has proven itself with malaria treatment-may have a place here. We could all use some good news.
03-20-2020, 01:50 AM
#112
I am an engineer, not a doctor. I just want to thank all the doctors for the information and opinions they are sharing & discussing, I trust it more than the media.
03-20-2020, 02:03 AM
#113
My experience with Plaquenil follows its use for Lupus or RA. Ideally a retinal scan would be done before it was used to establish a baseline of macular health & anatomy; then in 30 days repeated, in case there was an early macular edema change-if so with Lupus or RA treatment , it would be discontinued because this would be long term therapy for those autoimmune conditions.
In Covid19 application, the use of Plaquenil would be short term, and there would be no opportunity to perform pre chloroquine retinal scanning, (but the retina would be reviewed carefully with more basic techniques, and scanning wouldn't be necessary or practical. It was rare to see retinal changes within 1 month, but I did see that in a handful of cases ( they were subtle); -we didn't check for changes in 2 weeks. If Plaquenil proves effective for short term use for Covid19, the visual changes would be moot, from the drug itself- if there were any, would likely be secondary to the virus, and/or other coexisting medical conditions the patient had. Back to Porsche topic of thread- I promise.
In Covid19 application, the use of Plaquenil would be short term, and there would be no opportunity to perform pre chloroquine retinal scanning, (but the retina would be reviewed carefully with more basic techniques, and scanning wouldn't be necessary or practical. It was rare to see retinal changes within 1 month, but I did see that in a handful of cases ( they were subtle); -we didn't check for changes in 2 weeks. If Plaquenil proves effective for short term use for Covid19, the visual changes would be moot, from the drug itself- if there were any, would likely be secondary to the virus, and/or other coexisting medical conditions the patient had. Back to Porsche topic of thread- I promise.
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Underblu (03-21-2020)
03-20-2020, 07:21 AM
#114
most of the information in the world are either false or rumors started by people who have no idea what they are talking about. I like this thread because its real information good or bad. So if this thread never goes back to a Porsche topic i'm ok with it.. call it COVID 101 if you want but the information is greatly appreciated.
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Thinc2 (03-20-2020)
03-20-2020, 09:32 AM
#115
Rennlist Member
03-20-2020, 10:23 AM
#116
My experience with Plaquenil follows its use for Lupus or RA. Ideally a retinal scan would be done before it was used to establish a baseline of macular health & anatomy; then in 30 days repeated, in case there was an early macular edema change-if so with Lupus or RA treatment , it would be discontinued because this would be long term therapy for those autoimmune conditions.
In Covid19 application, the use of Plaquenil would be short term, and there would be no opportunity to perform pre chloroquine retinal scanning, (but the retina would be reviewed carefully with more basic techniques, and scanning wouldn't be necessary or practical. It was rare to see retinal changes within 1 month, but I did see that in a handful of cases ( they were subtle); -we didn't check for changes in 2 weeks. If Plaquenil proves effective for short term use for Covid19, the visual changes would be moot, from the drug itself- if there were any, would likely be secondary to the virus, and/or other coexisting medical conditions the patient had. Back to Porsche topic of thread- I promise.
In Covid19 application, the use of Plaquenil would be short term, and there would be no opportunity to perform pre chloroquine retinal scanning, (but the retina would be reviewed carefully with more basic techniques, and scanning wouldn't be necessary or practical. It was rare to see retinal changes within 1 month, but I did see that in a handful of cases ( they were subtle); -we didn't check for changes in 2 weeks. If Plaquenil proves effective for short term use for Covid19, the visual changes would be moot, from the drug itself- if there were any, would likely be secondary to the virus, and/or other coexisting medical conditions the patient had. Back to Porsche topic of thread- I promise.
I've heard either the AAO or the ABO is recommending outpatient Ophthalmology practices close. If that's true, I think it's a huge mistake. Most of us are utterly useless at a funduscopic exam -- and ironically all kinds of people are going to be put on plaquenil. The duration of tx is short, so risk if relatively low, but still. Good luck to those with acute angle closure glaucoma, retinal detachment and the laundry list of other ophthalmological emergencies.
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eyedoc (03-20-2020)
03-20-2020, 10:27 AM
#117
Pro
most of the information in the world are either false or rumors started by people who have no idea what they are talking about. I like this thread because its real information good or bad. So if this thread never goes back to a Porsche topic i'm ok with it.. call it COVID 101 if you want but the information is greatly appreciated.
03-20-2020, 10:33 AM
#118
Rennlist Member
03-20-2020, 11:13 AM
#119
My experience with Plaquenil follows its use for Lupus or RA. Ideally a retinal scan would be done before it was used to establish a baseline of macular health & anatomy; then in 30 days repeated, in case there was an early macular edema change-if so with Lupus or RA treatment , it would be discontinued because this would be long term therapy for those autoimmune conditions.
In Covid19 application, the use of Plaquenil would be short term, and there would be no opportunity to perform pre chloroquine retinal scanning, (but the retina would be reviewed carefully with more basic techniques, and scanning wouldn't be necessary or practical. It was rare to see retinal changes within 1 month, but I did see that in a handful of cases ( they were subtle); -we didn't check for changes in 2 weeks. If Plaquenil proves effective for short term use for Covid19, the visual changes would be moot, from the drug itself- if there were any, would likely be secondary to the virus, and/or other coexisting medical conditions the patient had. Back to Porsche topic of thread- I promise.
In Covid19 application, the use of Plaquenil would be short term, and there would be no opportunity to perform pre chloroquine retinal scanning, (but the retina would be reviewed carefully with more basic techniques, and scanning wouldn't be necessary or practical. It was rare to see retinal changes within 1 month, but I did see that in a handful of cases ( they were subtle); -we didn't check for changes in 2 weeks. If Plaquenil proves effective for short term use for Covid19, the visual changes would be moot, from the drug itself- if there were any, would likely be secondary to the virus, and/or other coexisting medical conditions the patient had. Back to Porsche topic of thread- I promise.
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