Cancel Order? Because of Corona Virus Fallout?
03-21-2020, 06:25 PM
#136
What is mind blowing to me is you have two potentially effective drugs Hydroxychloroquine and Remdesivir. Both of these drugs have acceptable safety profiles as they’ve been approved to treat other diseases. What is not known for certain is their efficacy with Covid-19. However, there have been many “anecdotal” cases where these drugs have saved people’s lives who were critically ill with Covid-19.
Why these drugs are not made available to every seriously ill Covid-19 sufferer is beyond me. How many more people have to die while data is parsed. That Italy and Spain, who have reached the limits of their hospital capacity, aren’t providing either of these drugs to those written off as terminal is criminal. When the choice is between life and death, any medication that may improve the odds for life is reason to hope. And if it were me or someone I loved who became ill, I’d be damn sure by whatever means necessary, to have one of these drugs as an option. False hope? There are truly some sick hateful people in the country.
Why these drugs are not made available to every seriously ill Covid-19 sufferer is beyond me. How many more people have to die while data is parsed. That Italy and Spain, who have reached the limits of their hospital capacity, aren’t providing either of these drugs to those written off as terminal is criminal. When the choice is between life and death, any medication that may improve the odds for life is reason to hope. And if it were me or someone I loved who became ill, I’d be damn sure by whatever means necessary, to have one of these drugs as an option. False hope? There are truly some sick hateful people in the country.
03-21-2020, 07:07 PM
#137
What is mind blowing to me is you have two potentially effective drugs Hydroxychloroquine and Remdesivir. Both of these drugs have acceptable safety profiles as they’ve been approved to treat other diseases. What is not known for certain is their efficacy with Covid-19. However, there have been many “anecdotal” cases where these drugs have saved people’s lives who were critically ill with Covid-19.
Why these drugs are not made available to every seriously ill Covid-19 sufferer is beyond me. How many more people have to die while data is parsed. That Italy and Spain, who have reached the limits of their hospital capacity, aren’t providing either of these drugs to those written off as terminal is criminal. When the choice is between life and death, any medication that may improve the odds for life is reason to hope. And if it were me or someone I loved who became ill, I’d be damn sure by whatever means necessary, to have one of these drugs as an option. False hope? There are truly some sick hateful people in the country.
Why these drugs are not made available to every seriously ill Covid-19 sufferer is beyond me. How many more people have to die while data is parsed. That Italy and Spain, who have reached the limits of their hospital capacity, aren’t providing either of these drugs to those written off as terminal is criminal. When the choice is between life and death, any medication that may improve the odds for life is reason to hope. And if it were me or someone I loved who became ill, I’d be damn sure by whatever means necessary, to have one of these drugs as an option. False hope? There are truly some sick hateful people in the country.
radical quarantine and a massive build up of medical supplies are the only currently effective actions.
you should spend less time on fox, and let actual experts work. “Why aren’t hundreds of thousands of people smarter than me doing X? They must be criminals!” No, in fact that’s not what’s happening.
a couple guys also claimed to invent cold fusion. Anecdotally.
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03-21-2020, 07:09 PM
#138
Rennlist Member
because you don’t understand what you’re talking about. Anecdotal is not evidence. Neither of these drugs have saved critically ill patients. There are some small poorly done experiments that purport to show it reduces the severity and length of illness if administered early in the course of the infection. Critically ill patients did not show improvement. And that was the best case. It’s possible more studies with different dosage turns up something useful. At the moment however neither of these drugs appear to alter the shape of the pandemic or the decision space. Their effects are too small.
radical quarantine and a massive build up of medical supplies are the only currently effective actions.
you should spend less time on fox, and let actual experts work. “Why aren’t hundreds of thousands of people smarter than me doing X? They must be criminals!” No, in fact that’s not what’s happening.
a couple guys also claimed to invent cold fusion. Anecdotally.
radical quarantine and a massive build up of medical supplies are the only currently effective actions.
you should spend less time on fox, and let actual experts work. “Why aren’t hundreds of thousands of people smarter than me doing X? They must be criminals!” No, in fact that’s not what’s happening.
a couple guys also claimed to invent cold fusion. Anecdotally.
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SantaFePorsche (03-22-2020)
03-21-2020, 07:18 PM
#139
Banned
because you don’t understand what you’re talking about. Anecdotal is not evidence. Neither of these drugs have saved critically ill patients. There are some small poorly done experiments that purport to show it reduces the severity and length of illness if administered early in the course of the infection. Critically ill patients did not show improvement. And that was the best case. It’s possible more studies with different dosage turns up something useful. At the moment however neither of these drugs appear to alter the shape of the pandemic or the decision space. Their effects are too small.
"This is our current COVID-19 treatment protocol for patients not in the critical care units... Plaquenil + Zinc + Zithromax + Vitamin C, Can other doctors and nurses share their treatment regimens? Thanks!"
He said patients on mechanical ventilation get Remdesivir, but to use that, "Gilead requires inclusion criteria to be met... positive SARS-CoV-2 test and mechanical ventilation."
03-21-2020, 07:37 PM
#140
It’s you who don’t clearly understand that if death is imminent, any possible treatment is better than nothing. Anecdotal evidence has been used as the basis for drug discoveries and in particular repurposing approved drugs. No one would argue full phase 3 trials are optimal but when people are drying by the thousands its worth taking a chance.
And please, given that we are talking about life and death here, don’t lie and say these drugs did not help serious or critical covid-19 victims. That is patently false.
DJ Experimental Drug Helps Some Americans Ride Out Coronavirus, NIH Doctor Says
By Suryatapa Bhattacharya
TOKYO--The antiviral drug remdesivir appeared to have an effect in American cruise passengers treated for the novel coronavirus in Japan, although data are limited, according to a doctor sent to Tokyo by the U.S. government.
Rear Adm. Richard Childs, an assistant surgeon general and lung specialist at the National Institutes of Health, said 14 Americans who contracted the virus on the Diamond Princess cruise ship and were treated at Japanese hospitals received the experimental drug from Gilead Sciences Inc.
Those 14 were "critically ill people and their average age is 75," he said. "Many of them were probably going to die in a short amount of time, and two weeks later nobody has died and more than half of them have recovered. It's just absolutely amazing." But he cautioned, "It's going to take us a while to figure out what the impact of the drug has been."
The drug is being tested in the U.S. and Asia by independent groups as well as Gilead, but no large-scale results are available.
I’ve watched someone I deeply loved die in the hospital when hope was taken away from us. Even a 5% chance is better than certain death.
by the way neither one of these sources is Fox News for those twisted people who seek to politicize even the most apolitical tragedy.
https://news.futunn.com/post/5397661
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41422-020-0282-0
And please, given that we are talking about life and death here, don’t lie and say these drugs did not help serious or critical covid-19 victims. That is patently false.
DJ Experimental Drug Helps Some Americans Ride Out Coronavirus, NIH Doctor Says
By Suryatapa Bhattacharya
TOKYO--The antiviral drug remdesivir appeared to have an effect in American cruise passengers treated for the novel coronavirus in Japan, although data are limited, according to a doctor sent to Tokyo by the U.S. government.
Rear Adm. Richard Childs, an assistant surgeon general and lung specialist at the National Institutes of Health, said 14 Americans who contracted the virus on the Diamond Princess cruise ship and were treated at Japanese hospitals received the experimental drug from Gilead Sciences Inc.
Those 14 were "critically ill people and their average age is 75," he said. "Many of them were probably going to die in a short amount of time, and two weeks later nobody has died and more than half of them have recovered. It's just absolutely amazing." But he cautioned, "It's going to take us a while to figure out what the impact of the drug has been."
The drug is being tested in the U.S. and Asia by independent groups as well as Gilead, but no large-scale results are available.
I’ve watched someone I deeply loved die in the hospital when hope was taken away from us. Even a 5% chance is better than certain death.
by the way neither one of these sources is Fox News for those twisted people who seek to politicize even the most apolitical tragedy.
https://news.futunn.com/post/5397661
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41422-020-0282-0
because you don’t understand what you’re talking about. Anecdotal is not evidence. Neither of these drugs have saved critically ill patients. There are some small poorly done experiments that purport to show it reduces the severity and length of illness if administered early in the course of the infection. Critically ill patients did not show improvement. And that was the best case. It’s possible more studies with different dosage turns up something useful. At the moment however neither of these drugs appear to alter the shape of the pandemic or the decision space. Their effects are too small.
radical quarantine and a massive build up of medical supplies are the only currently effective actions.
you should spend less time on fox, and let actual experts work. “Why aren’t hundreds of thousands of people smarter than me doing X? They must be criminals!” No, in fact that’s not what’s happening.
a couple guys also claimed to invent cold fusion. Anecdotally.
radical quarantine and a massive build up of medical supplies are the only currently effective actions.
you should spend less time on fox, and let actual experts work. “Why aren’t hundreds of thousands of people smarter than me doing X? They must be criminals!” No, in fact that’s not what’s happening.
a couple guys also claimed to invent cold fusion. Anecdotally.
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markchristenson (03-21-2020)
03-21-2020, 07:39 PM
#141
because you don’t understand what you’re talking about. Anecdotal is not evidence. Neither of these drugs have saved critically ill patients. There are some small poorly done experiments that purport to show it reduces the severity and length of illness if administered early in the course of the infection. Critically ill patients did not show improvement. And that was the best case. It’s possible more studies with different dosage turns up something useful. At the moment however neither of these drugs appear to alter the shape of the pandemic or the decision space. Their effects are too small.
radical quarantine and a massive build up of medical supplies are the only currently effective actions.
you should spend less time on fox, and let actual experts work. “Why aren’t hundreds of thousands of people smarter than me doing X? They must be criminals!” No, in fact that’s not what’s happening.
a couple guys also claimed to invent cold fusion. Anecdotally.
radical quarantine and a massive build up of medical supplies are the only currently effective actions.
you should spend less time on fox, and let actual experts work. “Why aren’t hundreds of thousands of people smarter than me doing X? They must be criminals!” No, in fact that’s not what’s happening.
a couple guys also claimed to invent cold fusion. Anecdotally.
Best case Covid19 mutates with warmer weather and becomes milder
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SantaFePorsche (03-22-2020)
03-21-2020, 07:42 PM
#142
Banned
It's cynical to feel this way, but I'm sure there are quite a few people out there who would be horrified if this pandemic and possibly future ones could be cured with $25 worth of generic drugs.
03-21-2020, 08:07 PM
#143
My point is simply to provide the study on which the current speculation is based.
Proviidng the original source instead of relying on solely rumor and speculation is a good thing, I think.
Oh,and I just got through a back-country route to drive off the cabin fever.It feels good.
Proviidng the original source instead of relying on solely rumor and speculation is a good thing, I think.
Oh,and I just got through a back-country route to drive off the cabin fever.It feels good.
Sorry for the "cabin fever" rant. I'm just sick of bad news, and would like to focus on the positive for a while. The source study is a good one to look at, and glad to have it here.
If things get bad here in the next two weeks (which I doubt) I may have to dust off my ER and ICU skills (I already round on our inpatient service 6 weeks a year) to help pitch in if needed. Might as well have my fun now.
Last edited by S4to911; 03-21-2020 at 08:28 PM.
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03-21-2020, 08:23 PM
#144
because you don’t understand what you’re talking about. Anecdotal is not evidence. Neither of these drugs have saved critically ill patients. There are some small poorly done experiments that purport to show it reduces the severity and length of illness if administered early in the course of the infection. Critically ill patients did not show improvement. And that was the best case. It’s possible more studies with different dosage turns up something useful. At the moment however neither of these drugs appear to alter the shape of the pandemic or the decision space. Their effects are too small.
radical quarantine and a massive build up of medical supplies are the only currently effective actions.
you should spend less time on fox, and let actual experts work. “Why aren’t hundreds of thousands of people smarter than me doing X? They must be criminals!” No, in fact that’s not what’s happening.
a couple guys also claimed to invent cold fusion. Anecdotally.
radical quarantine and a massive build up of medical supplies are the only currently effective actions.
you should spend less time on fox, and let actual experts work. “Why aren’t hundreds of thousands of people smarter than me doing X? They must be criminals!” No, in fact that’s not what’s happening.
a couple guys also claimed to invent cold fusion. Anecdotally.
"If your hospitalized COVID 19 patient has a fever of 102, is on low flow oxygen (say 2-3 liters/min), and could tip over that night into the ICU, what would you do? Try to call the FDA and get remdesivir by compassionate use, knowing it would take at least 24-48 hours possibly, and with supplies limited and likely next to impossible to get? Or give hydroxychloroquine 400 mg (2 pills) orally immediately, with 400-600 mg (2-3 pills daily for 3-4 days after that), for a total cost of $10 and low risk of any side effects (do an EKG do be sure of no long QT)? What is the downside risk? What do you have to lose, even if it in the end it may not work? At least you left nothing on the table--and that is what we owe our patients.
This is what docs right now are dealing with every hour right now in wards in downtown NYC. Guidelines in several countries suggest its use for exactly the patient above.
The trials will come out, hopefully shortly, and be either positive or negative, or in between (how's that for clarity
). This drug is so cheap and so relatively non-toxic it's a no brainer unless the trials are dead negative."This is a Porsche 992 forum, and perhaps the not the right venue for this, and I apologize. However, politics and comments about Fox News should stay out of it--we are all trying to do the best for people at the end of the day and give them hope.
OK--back to driving my 992...
03-21-2020, 08:25 PM
#145
Rennlist Member
03-21-2020, 08:29 PM
#146
03-21-2020, 09:50 PM
#147
03-21-2020, 10:07 PM
#148
There is a reason HCQ and CHLQ are part of the COVID treatment guidelines of a number of countries right now. If the trials fail, the drugs will be taken off these guidelines. Until then, it is reasonable to try them if the MD believes they have activity.
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03-21-2020, 10:40 PM
#149
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by S4to911
I'm an MD who happens to treat very sick patients quite frequently, and I think it may be of some value to repost something I wrote earlier in this thread (edited to remove cabin feverishness).
"If your hospitalized COVID 19 patient has a fever of 102, is on low flow oxygen (say 2-3 liters/min), and could tip over that night into the ICU, what would you do? Try to call the FDA and get remdesivir by compassionate use, knowing it would take at least 24-48 hours possibly, and with supplies limited and likely next to impossible to get? Or give hydroxychloroquine 400 mg (2 pills) orally immediately, with 400-600 mg (2-3 pills daily for 3-4 days after that), for a total cost of $10 and low risk of any side effects (do an EKG do be sure of no long QT)? What is the downside risk? What do you have to lose, even if it in the end it may not work? At least you left nothing on the table--and that is what we owe our patients.
This is what docs right now are dealing with every hour right now in wards in downtown NYC. Guidelines in several countries suggest its use for exactly the patient above.
The trials will come out, hopefully shortly, and be either positive or negative, or in between (how's that for clarity). This drug is so cheap and so relatively non-toxic it's a no brainer unless the trials are dead negative."
This is a Porsche 992 forum, and perhaps the not the right venue for this, and I apologize. However, politics and comments about Fox News should stay out of it--we are all trying to do the best for people at the end of the day and give them hope.
OK--back to driving my 992...
"If your hospitalized COVID 19 patient has a fever of 102, is on low flow oxygen (say 2-3 liters/min), and could tip over that night into the ICU, what would you do? Try to call the FDA and get remdesivir by compassionate use, knowing it would take at least 24-48 hours possibly, and with supplies limited and likely next to impossible to get? Or give hydroxychloroquine 400 mg (2 pills) orally immediately, with 400-600 mg (2-3 pills daily for 3-4 days after that), for a total cost of $10 and low risk of any side effects (do an EKG do be sure of no long QT)? What is the downside risk? What do you have to lose, even if it in the end it may not work? At least you left nothing on the table--and that is what we owe our patients.
This is what docs right now are dealing with every hour right now in wards in downtown NYC. Guidelines in several countries suggest its use for exactly the patient above.
The trials will come out, hopefully shortly, and be either positive or negative, or in between (how's that for clarity
). This drug is so cheap and so relatively non-toxic it's a no brainer unless the trials are dead negative."This is a Porsche 992 forum, and perhaps the not the right venue for this, and I apologize. However, politics and comments about Fox News should stay out of it--we are all trying to do the best for people at the end of the day and give them hope.
OK--back to driving my 992...
I also agree on the "no time to play the Fox News political games comment " that brings out the childlike infantile entitled behavior that exists on this forum at times when it's about cars and has no place with something as serious as the virus situation.
We are going to get through this but many people in the US and the world less fortunate than us are going to suffer greater than anyone here can imagine. And it will take time and patience and leadership to get us back to some kind of normalcy.
I appreciate and am thankful for all of the forum members from the medical community who are on the front lines and posting to help us understand what is really happening with this virus.
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03-21-2020, 11:38 PM
#150
Three Wheelin'
I'm an MD who happens to treat very sick patients quite frequently, and I think it may be of some value to repost something I wrote earlier in this thread (edited to remove cabin feverishness).
"If your hospitalized COVID 19 patient has a fever of 102, is on low flow oxygen (say 2-3 liters/min), and could tip over that night into the ICU, what would you do? Try to call the FDA and get remdesivir by compassionate use, knowing it would take at least 24-48 hours possibly, and with supplies limited and likely next to impossible to get? Or give hydroxychloroquine 400 mg (2 pills) orally immediately, with 400-600 mg (2-3 pills daily for 3-4 days after that), for a total cost of $10 and low risk of any side effects (do an EKG do be sure of no long QT)? What is the downside risk? What do you have to lose, even if it in the end it may not work? At least you left nothing on the table--and that is what we owe our patients.
This is what docs right now are dealing with every hour right now in wards in downtown NYC. Guidelines in several countries suggest its use for exactly the patient above.
The trials will come out, hopefully shortly, and be either positive or negative, or in between (how's that for clarity). This drug is so cheap and so relatively non-toxic it's a no brainer unless the trials are dead negative."
This is a Porsche 992 forum, and perhaps the not the right venue for this, and I apologize. However, politics and comments about Fox News should stay out of it--we are all trying to do the best for people at the end of the day and give them hope.
OK--back to driving my 992...
"If your hospitalized COVID 19 patient has a fever of 102, is on low flow oxygen (say 2-3 liters/min), and could tip over that night into the ICU, what would you do? Try to call the FDA and get remdesivir by compassionate use, knowing it would take at least 24-48 hours possibly, and with supplies limited and likely next to impossible to get? Or give hydroxychloroquine 400 mg (2 pills) orally immediately, with 400-600 mg (2-3 pills daily for 3-4 days after that), for a total cost of $10 and low risk of any side effects (do an EKG do be sure of no long QT)? What is the downside risk? What do you have to lose, even if it in the end it may not work? At least you left nothing on the table--and that is what we owe our patients.
This is what docs right now are dealing with every hour right now in wards in downtown NYC. Guidelines in several countries suggest its use for exactly the patient above.
The trials will come out, hopefully shortly, and be either positive or negative, or in between (how's that for clarity
). This drug is so cheap and so relatively non-toxic it's a no brainer unless the trials are dead negative."This is a Porsche 992 forum, and perhaps the not the right venue for this, and I apologize. However, politics and comments about Fox News should stay out of it--we are all trying to do the best for people at the end of the day and give them hope.
OK--back to driving my 992...
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