Why doesn't Porsche make a smaller 911?
11-04-2020, 12:52 PM
#121
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The seat has manual fore/aft and about 1 degree of tilt. Everything else requires a wrench. You also need a crazy specialized funnel to add washer fluid, because the hood is bolted on. Character in spades!
11-04-2020, 07:01 PM
#122
Yes a 911 will lose a chunk of value in the first few years, but the residual values Porsche uses don’t reflect at all the retail market value of a used car. On my last leased 911 (I typically lease cars for a period and buy them outright at lease end) the difference between my lease buyout and what I sold it for privately was $38k. On a Cayman S, the difference between buyout and sale price was $14k...but after buyout we drove it another 3 years before selling it.
I don’t see anyone here knocking the 993; it’s recognized as an icon, but it’s not the only ‘90s and early-noughts era sports car with “feel” and “soul.” As discussed in the thread there are other cars from marques as storied as Porsche that are just as analog...many of them considerably cheaper to buy and some much less expensive to maintain. Like the 993, excellent examples of the early NSXs and e30 M3s are also appreciating, and might have more financial upside left in them than a 993. Heck, even low mileage bone stock first-year (1997) Type Rs have been trading at crazy prices, with one recently on BaT going for about 3x its original new price.
I don’t see anyone here knocking the 993; it’s recognized as an icon, but it’s not the only ‘90s and early-noughts era sports car with “feel” and “soul.” As discussed in the thread there are other cars from marques as storied as Porsche that are just as analog...many of them considerably cheaper to buy and some much less expensive to maintain. Like the 993, excellent examples of the early NSXs and e30 M3s are also appreciating, and might have more financial upside left in them than a 993. Heck, even low mileage bone stock first-year (1997) Type Rs have been trading at crazy prices, with one recently on BaT going for about 3x its original new price.
11-05-2020, 09:06 AM
#123
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That's interesting. I lease a steady stream of BMW's. They tend to lease very well because BMW financial sets strong residuals which in turn results in a lower monthly payment. I could never buy a BMW off lease for the residual amount and turn around and make money on the car. I have watched year after year, model after model the little things fall victim to cost cutting. I think back to an E39 5 series, straight 6 with a manual transmission and sport suspension being just an extraordinary car, along with some of the earlier M3's. The 993 doesn't have all that much financial upside, lol. It may appreciate a little, but there is that 5 to 10 grand a year 'habit' of tweaking, modding etc that just seems to go on even when I think there is nothing left to do.
I am a former BMW owner and former BMWCCA member. IMHO, they’ve lost their way. The best car that they make right now is probably the Toyota Supra.
11-05-2020, 10:02 AM
#124
I wouldn't be surprised if they go this direction in 5+ 10+ years. They can't keep getting bigger and more luxurious. I bet there is either a rebranding of the "911" or there will be other similar models like the cayman and taycan getting sportier. I bet the alot of the cost is tooling a factory over. Anything they call 911 will sell. It's a novelty just by name alone.The Z was the first comparison I thought of. Maybe the gt3 and rs stuff spins off as a separate type of car. I could see it at some point. The cars aren't getting too big but they are getting to luxurious. But I feel they're starting to get real far away from simple. That's where all the history is, 911s were simple at heart.
11-05-2020, 10:06 AM
#125
Burning Brakes
BMW is a rental car company with approximately 80% of the new cars rolling off of the lot as leases. The cost-cutting and decreased quality is a function of a car being designed for a 36 month lease. A friend of mine noted a couple of years ago that “enthusiasts” no longer buy/lease BMWs — he’s not wrong. If you want what BMW once was, the Alfa Romeo Giulia is a better BMW 3 series than anything BMW has made in years.
I am a former BMW owner and former BMWCCA member. IMHO, they’ve lost their way. The best car that they make right now is probably the Toyota Supra.
I am a former BMW owner and former BMWCCA member. IMHO, they’ve lost their way. The best car that they make right now is probably the Toyota Supra.
11-05-2020, 11:16 AM
#126
BMW is a rental car company with approximately 80% of the new cars rolling off of the lot as leases. The cost-cutting and decreased quality is a function of a car being designed for a 36 month lease. A friend of mine noted a couple of years ago that “enthusiasts” no longer buy/lease BMWs — he’s not wrong. If you want what BMW once was, the Alfa Romeo Giulia is a better BMW 3 series than anything BMW has made in years.
I am a former BMW owner and former BMWCCA member. IMHO, they’ve lost their way. The best car that they make right now is probably the Toyota Supra.
I am a former BMW owner and former BMWCCA member. IMHO, they’ve lost their way. The best car that they make right now is probably the Toyota Supra.
Each successive generation got a little heavier and a little less interesting. F90 M5 is a rocket, but it's no sports car.
e90 had an awesome engine and exceptional steering feel. But it was too heavy. That was probably the last "real" M car with a bespoke engine.
In hindsight, my favorite was the e36. Basic, small, lightweight and tossable.
11-06-2020, 08:33 AM
#127
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I don't necessarily want a smaller, less expensive 911 - just one that isn't so porky - which it is. Get back into the 3k lbs even range and it would be much more enjoyable to drive.
A base Carerra is ~3,400 lbs now, that's shameful IMO. I'd like to see just the basic tech needed - don't much care about PDCC, wet mode, sport chrono add ons, even 4 wheel steer,
big screens and on. Just give me a nice, light weight, powerful 911 that is fun to drive and toss around. Don't give me a compromised "T" - give me a T with the S engine and other
light weight options. I'm getting to the timeframe I'm normally thinking about a new 911 purchase - sadly there is not much in the lineup that is even moving me towards one now.
A base Carerra is ~3,400 lbs now, that's shameful IMO. I'd like to see just the basic tech needed - don't much care about PDCC, wet mode, sport chrono add ons, even 4 wheel steer,
big screens and on. Just give me a nice, light weight, powerful 911 that is fun to drive and toss around. Don't give me a compromised "T" - give me a T with the S engine and other
light weight options. I'm getting to the timeframe I'm normally thinking about a new 911 purchase - sadly there is not much in the lineup that is even moving me towards one now.
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11-06-2020, 08:49 AM
#128
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Mark Dreyer (11-06-2020)
11-06-2020, 12:00 PM
#129
Burning Brakes
Porsche as a brand doesn't want to go any further down market. They had considered an entry model below the Cayman/Boxster, but decided a used Porsche is as cheap as they'll go. However, a 2+2 Panamera coupe (physically smaller, but not necessarily cheaper) would be interesting although the market is moving away from such vehicles.
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detansinn (11-06-2020)
11-06-2020, 02:35 PM
#130
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Porsche as a brand doesn't want to go any further down market. They had considered an entry model below the Cayman/Boxster, but decided a used Porsche is as cheap as they'll go. However, a 2+2 Panamera coupe (physically smaller, but not necessarily cheaper) would be interesting although the market is moving away from such vehicles.