Cold feet -- Anyone regret their TT/S?
09-04-2021, 08:05 PM
#61
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=Steve 96C4S;17648349]Wait a minute, the seat back on the all black interior is BRIGHT silver? Bright? It doesn't look bright in the pics I've seen./QUOTE]
The seat backs are dark silver. The dash/door/center console trim are matching dark silver on the base trim (which is not available with the TTS). But bright silver for all the upgraded trims (CF, leather, aluminum). That bothers me and so I’m going to get the leather seat backs with CF inlay (to match the CF trim). It might not bother most people. But personally I think plastic seat backs have no business being in a $200K+ car, especially since in the TTS they don’t match anything else. Adding the leather seats adds 1% to the build, which isn’t even a rounding error in the scheme of life.
The seat backs are dark silver. The dash/door/center console trim are matching dark silver on the base trim (which is not available with the TTS). But bright silver for all the upgraded trims (CF, leather, aluminum). That bothers me and so I’m going to get the leather seat backs with CF inlay (to match the CF trim). It might not bother most people. But personally I think plastic seat backs have no business being in a $200K+ car, especially since in the TTS they don’t match anything else. Adding the leather seats adds 1% to the build, which isn’t even a rounding error in the scheme of life.
09-04-2021, 08:08 PM
#62
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
09-05-2021, 12:05 AM
#63
Thanks all for the advice. And you’re right RD-K I’m overthinking this (like usual).
I went for an extended test drive in the TTS. WHAT A MACHINE! Truly a wolf in sheep’s clothing. And if I take a big step back and am honest with myself, it’s the “right” car for me. It will make a safe and civilized daily with legal backseats for short trips with my kids, and will be able to slay backroad and infrequent track days.
I nearly went with a Targa 4S, but the backseats were so compromised (much narrower and they lean forward which looked miserable) and I prefer the classic shape of the coupe. If I want open top, I’ll get a Spyder which is IMO the most beautiful Porsche period and quite reasonably priced.
I want a GT3, but who are we kidding, on crappy New England roads and limited time for track days for the next couple years, what’s the point? And if I can’t bring my kids along safely, well that ruins half the fun and will cut opportunities for seat time in half.
A GTS would be a lateral move. And it’s a lot of money for a car that’s not nearly as special as the TTS. The slipper slope of “If I’m spending $170, I may as will spend $240 reigns supreme.”
Soooooo…. I spoke to my SA and we’re doing it. We’re going with the TTS. I’m sure I’ll ask for help with a few options here and there, but for now is my build code: PNAE3WX6
http://www.porsche-code.com/PNAE3WX6
I went for an extended test drive in the TTS. WHAT A MACHINE! Truly a wolf in sheep’s clothing. And if I take a big step back and am honest with myself, it’s the “right” car for me. It will make a safe and civilized daily with legal backseats for short trips with my kids, and will be able to slay backroad and infrequent track days.
I nearly went with a Targa 4S, but the backseats were so compromised (much narrower and they lean forward which looked miserable) and I prefer the classic shape of the coupe. If I want open top, I’ll get a Spyder which is IMO the most beautiful Porsche period and quite reasonably priced.
I want a GT3, but who are we kidding, on crappy New England roads and limited time for track days for the next couple years, what’s the point? And if I can’t bring my kids along safely, well that ruins half the fun and will cut opportunities for seat time in half.
A GTS would be a lateral move. And it’s a lot of money for a car that’s not nearly as special as the TTS. The slipper slope of “If I’m spending $170, I may as will spend $240 reigns supreme.”
Soooooo…. I spoke to my SA and we’re doing it. We’re going with the TTS. I’m sure I’ll ask for help with a few options here and there, but for now is my build code: PNAE3WX6
http://www.porsche-code.com/PNAE3WX6
I thought the Carrera is very civilized and too powerful & capable for the street already.
09-05-2021, 02:30 AM
#64
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
My 992 C4S is fast. Certainly faster than necessary on public roads. The power/torque of the TTS is just absolutely awe inspiring. The engine also just seems to rev and breathe more freely. The car chassis feels somehow more composed puttering around, yet alive when thrashing about. Visually, its road presence is also significantly magnified. The Carrera is a perfectly capable car, but there is really no comparing the two. The TTS is in a completely different league. I was very skeptical going into the test drive. But within 30 minutes behind the wheel, there was no question.... it truly is the ultimate DD.
The following 3 users liked this post by wintershade:
09-05-2021, 02:55 AM
#65
That said, need to realize Northeast US' 3rdWorld roads, speed enfcmt, weather, topography and ethos self-select for few such folks who actually like to drive such cars routinely: and any rare guys in Northeast US w/such interests and resources tend to have wkend houses in Malibu, etc to properly enjoy even a "mere" TTS
Tracks tend to be irrelevant for those who value their time/health vs tail scenarios and/or have interesting mtn roads in their backyards, which includes the many such guys in BH/Malibu and Atherton, etc
09-05-2021, 08:19 AM
#66
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Doubt anyone credible in US has really driven 992GT3 on mtn roads, suburban fwys, surface streets of BH, etc to compare to 992TTS in similar (likely) daily use by many US consumers who can drive such cars routinely
That said, need to realize Northeast US' 3rdWorld roads, speed enfcmt, weather, topography and ethos self-select for few such folks who actually like to drive such cars routinely: and any rare guys in Northeast US w/such interests and resources tend to have wkend houses in Malibu, etc to properly enjoy even a "mere" TTS
Tracks tend to be irrelevant for those who value their time/health vs tail scenarios and/or have interesting mtn roads in their backyards, which includes the many such guys in BH/Malibu and Atherton, etc
That said, need to realize Northeast US' 3rdWorld roads, speed enfcmt, weather, topography and ethos self-select for few such folks who actually like to drive such cars routinely: and any rare guys in Northeast US w/such interests and resources tend to have wkend houses in Malibu, etc to properly enjoy even a "mere" TTS
Tracks tend to be irrelevant for those who value their time/health vs tail scenarios and/or have interesting mtn roads in their backyards, which includes the many such guys in BH/Malibu and Atherton, etc
05-07-2024, 09:43 AM
#67
992 TTS regreat
After some years of anticipation, in the doubt of buying or not the turbo S, I can not finally say exactly why I did regret buying the car:
The positives sides of the car:
1 - Very efficient traction, particularly in the wet
2 - Quick launch control ( not vey emotional in my opinion )
3 - Good comfort and quality in general
4 - relatively good brakes ( but limited by the OEM tires )
5 - Looks good
6 - Can perform very well in terms of speed and time attack
The negatives:
1 - some turbo lag, that is noticeable.
2 - first and second gears too short. they were developed with the frantic idea of having very good 0-60 times but overall too short for any type of sport driving
3 - difficult to use first and second gear in manual mode, particularly in sporty driving because of the short range of real usable engine revs. basically only after 4000 rpms
4 - engine from 5000 to 6000 rpms seems very dull and boring in the way it accelerates, transmits acceleration in the drivetrain, and the way it responds to throttle response. If gets a bit better after 6000, but not much
5 - engine sound even with sport exhaust is super boring
6 - chassis a bit boring and with a tendency to understeer, in the typical situations we usually want to use power and turning angle to have fun
7 - In sporty driving the pdcc makes the feedback awful and difficult to read in the limit, car reactions seem strange
8 - rear suspension too soft and too much inverted pendulum effect in hard braking at high speed. Front suspension and front insertion not very agile and crisp.
9 - Steering a bit too heavy and in my opinion could have been much better calibrated to overcome the lack of hydraulic steering
10 - Accelerating the car from 3rs gear onward seems boring. And it is not necessarily if it accelerates more or less, it is the way it delivers the feeling of acceleration. many cars with less power are much more fun to accelerate in a straight line
11 - sport stability control setting still very conservative and understeering and not really for sporty driving.
12 - tires loose grip too early in most slow tight curves. Should have mounted some more sporty tires
13 - The car does not feel nimble, nor reactive. Feels heavy like a truck
14 - Quick steering at high speed shows the not so healthy softness of the default suspension, making the car oscillate too much in a counter reaction.
Overall, it is a car that is very efficient, that delivers what it promises, fast, comfortable, probably unmatched for this type of vehicle but as a driver's car, it is very very far away from being a nimble, reactive, predictable, emotional, and slightly fearful car to drive.
All these features are the features I wanted in a car, and unfortunately I was really far off with the 992 TTS. Important to say that the GT3 that I also tried as not my kind of car because of the lack of power.
So, I can clearly say that a 997 GT2 brings me hugely much more pleasure to drive, a 997.2 GT3 RS also, even if the engine is not really strong, an Alfa Romeu Giulia QV blows away the turbo S in terms of pleasure to drive, sportiness and overall man-machine connection ( even if the track times or acceleration times are obviously not as strong ) and unfortunatly we live in an era where people focus too much in the numbers of acceleration, power, etc..etc and care less about the driver's feel.
Driving slowly a Giulia QV gives me way more fun and feel than driving fast a turbo S.
All of this to say that I am not saying the the turbo S is a bad car, on the contrary, but overall, my real important features of a car are not really very aligned with the philosophy of development of the turbo S. Seeing it as the king of the 0-60 drag races does not tell the whole story of living with it.
btw, 997 GT2 RS might be peak 911 in my opinion, and maybe the 991 GT2 RS....Those are probably the cars.
The positives sides of the car:
1 - Very efficient traction, particularly in the wet
2 - Quick launch control ( not vey emotional in my opinion )
3 - Good comfort and quality in general
4 - relatively good brakes ( but limited by the OEM tires )
5 - Looks good
6 - Can perform very well in terms of speed and time attack
The negatives:
1 - some turbo lag, that is noticeable.
2 - first and second gears too short. they were developed with the frantic idea of having very good 0-60 times but overall too short for any type of sport driving
3 - difficult to use first and second gear in manual mode, particularly in sporty driving because of the short range of real usable engine revs. basically only after 4000 rpms
4 - engine from 5000 to 6000 rpms seems very dull and boring in the way it accelerates, transmits acceleration in the drivetrain, and the way it responds to throttle response. If gets a bit better after 6000, but not much
5 - engine sound even with sport exhaust is super boring
6 - chassis a bit boring and with a tendency to understeer, in the typical situations we usually want to use power and turning angle to have fun
7 - In sporty driving the pdcc makes the feedback awful and difficult to read in the limit, car reactions seem strange
8 - rear suspension too soft and too much inverted pendulum effect in hard braking at high speed. Front suspension and front insertion not very agile and crisp.
9 - Steering a bit too heavy and in my opinion could have been much better calibrated to overcome the lack of hydraulic steering
10 - Accelerating the car from 3rs gear onward seems boring. And it is not necessarily if it accelerates more or less, it is the way it delivers the feeling of acceleration. many cars with less power are much more fun to accelerate in a straight line
11 - sport stability control setting still very conservative and understeering and not really for sporty driving.
12 - tires loose grip too early in most slow tight curves. Should have mounted some more sporty tires
13 - The car does not feel nimble, nor reactive. Feels heavy like a truck
14 - Quick steering at high speed shows the not so healthy softness of the default suspension, making the car oscillate too much in a counter reaction.
Overall, it is a car that is very efficient, that delivers what it promises, fast, comfortable, probably unmatched for this type of vehicle but as a driver's car, it is very very far away from being a nimble, reactive, predictable, emotional, and slightly fearful car to drive.
All these features are the features I wanted in a car, and unfortunately I was really far off with the 992 TTS. Important to say that the GT3 that I also tried as not my kind of car because of the lack of power.
So, I can clearly say that a 997 GT2 brings me hugely much more pleasure to drive, a 997.2 GT3 RS also, even if the engine is not really strong, an Alfa Romeu Giulia QV blows away the turbo S in terms of pleasure to drive, sportiness and overall man-machine connection ( even if the track times or acceleration times are obviously not as strong ) and unfortunatly we live in an era where people focus too much in the numbers of acceleration, power, etc..etc and care less about the driver's feel.
Driving slowly a Giulia QV gives me way more fun and feel than driving fast a turbo S.
All of this to say that I am not saying the the turbo S is a bad car, on the contrary, but overall, my real important features of a car are not really very aligned with the philosophy of development of the turbo S. Seeing it as the king of the 0-60 drag races does not tell the whole story of living with it.
btw, 997 GT2 RS might be peak 911 in my opinion, and maybe the 991 GT2 RS....Those are probably the cars.
05-07-2024, 10:24 AM
#68
After some years of anticipation, in the doubt of buying or not the turbo S, I can not finally say exactly why I did regret buying the car:
The positives sides of the car:
1 - Very efficient traction, particularly in the wet
2 - Quick launch control ( not vey emotional in my opinion )
3 - Good comfort and quality in general
4 - relatively good brakes ( but limited by the OEM tires )
5 - Looks good
6 - Can perform very well in terms of speed and time attack
The negatives:
1 - some turbo lag, that is noticeable.
2 - first and second gears too short. they were developed with the frantic idea of having very good 0-60 times but overall too short for any type of sport driving
3 - difficult to use first and second gear in manual mode, particularly in sporty driving because of the short range of real usable engine revs. basically only after 4000 rpms
4 - engine from 5000 to 6000 rpms seems very dull and boring in the way it accelerates, transmits acceleration in the drivetrain, and the way it responds to throttle response. If gets a bit better after 6000, but not much
5 - engine sound even with sport exhaust is super boring
6 - chassis a bit boring and with a tendency to understeer, in the typical situations we usually want to use power and turning angle to have fun
7 - In sporty driving the pdcc makes the feedback awful and difficult to read in the limit, car reactions seem strange
8 - rear suspension too soft and too much inverted pendulum effect in hard braking at high speed. Front suspension and front insertion not very agile and crisp.
9 - Steering a bit too heavy and in my opinion could have been much better calibrated to overcome the lack of hydraulic steering
10 - Accelerating the car from 3rs gear onward seems boring. And it is not necessarily if it accelerates more or less, it is the way it delivers the feeling of acceleration. many cars with less power are much more fun to accelerate in a straight line
11 - sport stability control setting still very conservative and understeering and not really for sporty driving.
12 - tires loose grip too early in most slow tight curves. Should have mounted some more sporty tires
13 - The car does not feel nimble, nor reactive. Feels heavy like a truck
14 - Quick steering at high speed shows the not so healthy softness of the default suspension, making the car oscillate too much in a counter reaction.
Overall, it is a car that is very efficient, that delivers what it promises, fast, comfortable, probably unmatched for this type of vehicle but as a driver's car, it is very very far away from being a nimble, reactive, predictable, emotional, and slightly fearful car to drive.
All these features are the features I wanted in a car, and unfortunately I was really far off with the 992 TTS. Important to say that the GT3 that I also tried as not my kind of car because of the lack of power.
So, I can clearly say that a 997 GT2 brings me hugely much more pleasure to drive, a 997.2 GT3 RS also, even if the engine is not really strong, an Alfa Romeu Giulia QV blows away the turbo S in terms of pleasure to drive, sportiness and overall man-machine connection ( even if the track times or acceleration times are obviously not as strong ) and unfortunatly we live in an era where people focus too much in the numbers of acceleration, power, etc..etc and care less about the driver's feel.
Driving slowly a Giulia QV gives me way more fun and feel than driving fast a turbo S.
All of this to say that I am not saying the the turbo S is a bad car, on the contrary, but overall, my real important features of a car are not really very aligned with the philosophy of development of the turbo S. Seeing it as the king of the 0-60 drag races does not tell the whole story of living with it.
btw, 997 GT2 RS might be peak 911 in my opinion, and maybe the 991 GT2 RS....Those are probably the cars.
The positives sides of the car:
1 - Very efficient traction, particularly in the wet
2 - Quick launch control ( not vey emotional in my opinion )
3 - Good comfort and quality in general
4 - relatively good brakes ( but limited by the OEM tires )
5 - Looks good
6 - Can perform very well in terms of speed and time attack
The negatives:
1 - some turbo lag, that is noticeable.
2 - first and second gears too short. they were developed with the frantic idea of having very good 0-60 times but overall too short for any type of sport driving
3 - difficult to use first and second gear in manual mode, particularly in sporty driving because of the short range of real usable engine revs. basically only after 4000 rpms
4 - engine from 5000 to 6000 rpms seems very dull and boring in the way it accelerates, transmits acceleration in the drivetrain, and the way it responds to throttle response. If gets a bit better after 6000, but not much
5 - engine sound even with sport exhaust is super boring
6 - chassis a bit boring and with a tendency to understeer, in the typical situations we usually want to use power and turning angle to have fun
7 - In sporty driving the pdcc makes the feedback awful and difficult to read in the limit, car reactions seem strange
8 - rear suspension too soft and too much inverted pendulum effect in hard braking at high speed. Front suspension and front insertion not very agile and crisp.
9 - Steering a bit too heavy and in my opinion could have been much better calibrated to overcome the lack of hydraulic steering
10 - Accelerating the car from 3rs gear onward seems boring. And it is not necessarily if it accelerates more or less, it is the way it delivers the feeling of acceleration. many cars with less power are much more fun to accelerate in a straight line
11 - sport stability control setting still very conservative and understeering and not really for sporty driving.
12 - tires loose grip too early in most slow tight curves. Should have mounted some more sporty tires
13 - The car does not feel nimble, nor reactive. Feels heavy like a truck
14 - Quick steering at high speed shows the not so healthy softness of the default suspension, making the car oscillate too much in a counter reaction.
Overall, it is a car that is very efficient, that delivers what it promises, fast, comfortable, probably unmatched for this type of vehicle but as a driver's car, it is very very far away from being a nimble, reactive, predictable, emotional, and slightly fearful car to drive.
All these features are the features I wanted in a car, and unfortunately I was really far off with the 992 TTS. Important to say that the GT3 that I also tried as not my kind of car because of the lack of power.
So, I can clearly say that a 997 GT2 brings me hugely much more pleasure to drive, a 997.2 GT3 RS also, even if the engine is not really strong, an Alfa Romeu Giulia QV blows away the turbo S in terms of pleasure to drive, sportiness and overall man-machine connection ( even if the track times or acceleration times are obviously not as strong ) and unfortunatly we live in an era where people focus too much in the numbers of acceleration, power, etc..etc and care less about the driver's feel.
Driving slowly a Giulia QV gives me way more fun and feel than driving fast a turbo S.
All of this to say that I am not saying the the turbo S is a bad car, on the contrary, but overall, my real important features of a car are not really very aligned with the philosophy of development of the turbo S. Seeing it as the king of the 0-60 drag races does not tell the whole story of living with it.
btw, 997 GT2 RS might be peak 911 in my opinion, and maybe the 991 GT2 RS....Those are probably the cars.
Last edited by 997at; 05-07-2024 at 10:35 AM.
The following users liked this post:
mashoutposse (05-13-2024)
05-07-2024, 10:34 AM
#69
After some years of anticipation, in the doubt of buying or not the turbo S, I can not finally say exactly why I did regret buying the car:
The positives sides of the car:
1 - Very efficient traction, particularly in the wet
2 - Quick launch control ( not vey emotional in my opinion )
3 - Good comfort and quality in general
4 - relatively good brakes ( but limited by the OEM tires )
5 - Looks good
6 - Can perform very well in terms of speed and time attack
The negatives:
1 - some turbo lag, that is noticeable.
2 - first and second gears too short. they were developed with the frantic idea of having very good 0-60 times but overall too short for any type of sport driving
3 - difficult to use first and second gear in manual mode, particularly in sporty driving because of the short range of real usable engine revs. basically only after 4000 rpms
4 - engine from 5000 to 6000 rpms seems very dull and boring in the way it accelerates, transmits acceleration in the drivetrain, and the way it responds to throttle response. If gets a bit better after 6000, but not much
5 - engine sound even with sport exhaust is super boring
6 - chassis a bit boring and with a tendency to understeer, in the typical situations we usually want to use power and turning angle to have fun
7 - In sporty driving the pdcc makes the feedback awful and difficult to read in the limit, car reactions seem strange
8 - rear suspension too soft and too much inverted pendulum effect in hard braking at high speed. Front suspension and front insertion not very agile and crisp.
9 - Steering a bit too heavy and in my opinion could have been much better calibrated to overcome the lack of hydraulic steering
10 - Accelerating the car from 3rs gear onward seems boring. And it is not necessarily if it accelerates more or less, it is the way it delivers the feeling of acceleration. many cars with less power are much more fun to accelerate in a straight line
11 - sport stability control setting still very conservative and understeering and not really for sporty driving.
12 - tires loose grip too early in most slow tight curves. Should have mounted some more sporty tires
13 - The car does not feel nimble, nor reactive. Feels heavy like a truck
14 - Quick steering at high speed shows the not so healthy softness of the default suspension, making the car oscillate too much in a counter reaction.
Overall, it is a car that is very efficient, that delivers what it promises, fast, comfortable, probably unmatched for this type of vehicle but as a driver's car, it is very very far away from being a nimble, reactive, predictable, emotional, and slightly fearful car to drive.
All these features are the features I wanted in a car, and unfortunately I was really far off with the 992 TTS. Important to say that the GT3 that I also tried as not my kind of car because of the lack of power.
So, I can clearly say that a 997 GT2 brings me hugely much more pleasure to drive, a 997.2 GT3 RS also, even if the engine is not really strong, an Alfa Romeu Giulia QV blows away the turbo S in terms of pleasure to drive, sportiness and overall man-machine connection ( even if the track times or acceleration times are obviously not as strong ) and unfortunatly we live in an era where people focus too much in the numbers of acceleration, power, etc..etc and care less about the driver's feel.
Driving slowly a Giulia QV gives me way more fun and feel than driving fast a turbo S.
All of this to say that I am not saying the the turbo S is a bad car, on the contrary, but overall, my real important features of a car are not really very aligned with the philosophy of development of the turbo S. Seeing it as the king of the 0-60 drag races does not tell the whole story of living with it.
btw, 997 GT2 RS might be peak 911 in my opinion, and maybe the 991 GT2 RS....Those are probably the cars.
The positives sides of the car:
1 - Very efficient traction, particularly in the wet
2 - Quick launch control ( not vey emotional in my opinion )
3 - Good comfort and quality in general
4 - relatively good brakes ( but limited by the OEM tires )
5 - Looks good
6 - Can perform very well in terms of speed and time attack
The negatives:
1 - some turbo lag, that is noticeable.
2 - first and second gears too short. they were developed with the frantic idea of having very good 0-60 times but overall too short for any type of sport driving
3 - difficult to use first and second gear in manual mode, particularly in sporty driving because of the short range of real usable engine revs. basically only after 4000 rpms
4 - engine from 5000 to 6000 rpms seems very dull and boring in the way it accelerates, transmits acceleration in the drivetrain, and the way it responds to throttle response. If gets a bit better after 6000, but not much
5 - engine sound even with sport exhaust is super boring
6 - chassis a bit boring and with a tendency to understeer, in the typical situations we usually want to use power and turning angle to have fun
7 - In sporty driving the pdcc makes the feedback awful and difficult to read in the limit, car reactions seem strange
8 - rear suspension too soft and too much inverted pendulum effect in hard braking at high speed. Front suspension and front insertion not very agile and crisp.
9 - Steering a bit too heavy and in my opinion could have been much better calibrated to overcome the lack of hydraulic steering
10 - Accelerating the car from 3rs gear onward seems boring. And it is not necessarily if it accelerates more or less, it is the way it delivers the feeling of acceleration. many cars with less power are much more fun to accelerate in a straight line
11 - sport stability control setting still very conservative and understeering and not really for sporty driving.
12 - tires loose grip too early in most slow tight curves. Should have mounted some more sporty tires
13 - The car does not feel nimble, nor reactive. Feels heavy like a truck
14 - Quick steering at high speed shows the not so healthy softness of the default suspension, making the car oscillate too much in a counter reaction.
Overall, it is a car that is very efficient, that delivers what it promises, fast, comfortable, probably unmatched for this type of vehicle but as a driver's car, it is very very far away from being a nimble, reactive, predictable, emotional, and slightly fearful car to drive.
All these features are the features I wanted in a car, and unfortunately I was really far off with the 992 TTS. Important to say that the GT3 that I also tried as not my kind of car because of the lack of power.
So, I can clearly say that a 997 GT2 brings me hugely much more pleasure to drive, a 997.2 GT3 RS also, even if the engine is not really strong, an Alfa Romeu Giulia QV blows away the turbo S in terms of pleasure to drive, sportiness and overall man-machine connection ( even if the track times or acceleration times are obviously not as strong ) and unfortunatly we live in an era where people focus too much in the numbers of acceleration, power, etc..etc and care less about the driver's feel.
Driving slowly a Giulia QV gives me way more fun and feel than driving fast a turbo S.
All of this to say that I am not saying the the turbo S is a bad car, on the contrary, but overall, my real important features of a car are not really very aligned with the philosophy of development of the turbo S. Seeing it as the king of the 0-60 drag races does not tell the whole story of living with it.
btw, 997 GT2 RS might be peak 911 in my opinion, and maybe the 991 GT2 RS....Those are probably the cars.
05-07-2024, 10:34 AM
#70
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I feel similarly. I sold my TTS in Jan and picked up a manual T this weekend.
The 992 TTS blows your mind in a test drive. The acceleration and poise is mental. But the novelty wears off quickly and you soon realize the power isn’t really usable on roads. You’re always feather footing the car. It feels bored with you, heavy. The main thing I liked was that king of the road, top dog feeling that only a TTS or GT product can provide.
So far, the T is much more fun. Power feels usable. Car feels lighter, more nimble, more alive. Power band much more suitable to road use than a GT3/4 or 718 Spyder.
I think I was OP. So to answer my own question, after a few months I did regret the Turbo. But really there is no perfect 911 because you can’t get everything out of a single car. Each of the variants fills its own little niche and they’re all great at something.
The 992 TTS blows your mind in a test drive. The acceleration and poise is mental. But the novelty wears off quickly and you soon realize the power isn’t really usable on roads. You’re always feather footing the car. It feels bored with you, heavy. The main thing I liked was that king of the road, top dog feeling that only a TTS or GT product can provide.
So far, the T is much more fun. Power feels usable. Car feels lighter, more nimble, more alive. Power band much more suitable to road use than a GT3/4 or 718 Spyder.
I think I was OP. So to answer my own question, after a few months I did regret the Turbo. But really there is no perfect 911 because you can’t get everything out of a single car. Each of the variants fills its own little niche and they’re all great at something.
05-07-2024, 12:03 PM
#71
I feel similarly. I sold my TTS in Jan and picked up a manual T this weekend.
The 992 TTS blows your mind in a test drive. The acceleration and poise is mental. But the novelty wears off quickly and you soon realize the power isn’t really usable on roads. You’re always feather footing the car. It feels bored with you, heavy. The main thing I liked was that king of the road, top dog feeling that only a TTS or GT product can provide.
So far, the T is much more fun. Power feels usable. Car feels lighter, more nimble, more alive. Power band much more suitable to road use than a GT3/4 or 718 Spyder.
I think I was OP. So to answer my own question, after a few months I did regret the Turbo. But really there is no perfect 911 because you can’t get everything out of a single car. Each of the variants fills its own little niche and they’re all great at something.
The 992 TTS blows your mind in a test drive. The acceleration and poise is mental. But the novelty wears off quickly and you soon realize the power isn’t really usable on roads. You’re always feather footing the car. It feels bored with you, heavy. The main thing I liked was that king of the road, top dog feeling that only a TTS or GT product can provide.
So far, the T is much more fun. Power feels usable. Car feels lighter, more nimble, more alive. Power band much more suitable to road use than a GT3/4 or 718 Spyder.
I think I was OP. So to answer my own question, after a few months I did regret the Turbo. But really there is no perfect 911 because you can’t get everything out of a single car. Each of the variants fills its own little niche and they’re all great at something.
05-07-2024, 12:06 PM
#72
After some years of anticipation, in the doubt of buying or not the turbo S, I can not finally say exactly why I did regret buying the car:
The positives sides of the car:
1 - Very efficient traction, particularly in the wet
2 - Quick launch control ( not vey emotional in my opinion )
3 - Good comfort and quality in general
4 - relatively good brakes ( but limited by the OEM tires )
5 - Looks good
6 - Can perform very well in terms of speed and time attack
The negatives:
1 - some turbo lag, that is noticeable.
2 - first and second gears too short. they were developed with the frantic idea of having very good 0-60 times but overall too short for any type of sport driving
3 - difficult to use first and second gear in manual mode, particularly in sporty driving because of the short range of real usable engine revs. basically only after 4000 rpms
4 - engine from 5000 to 6000 rpms seems very dull and boring in the way it accelerates, transmits acceleration in the drivetrain, and the way it responds to throttle response. If gets a bit better after 6000, but not much
5 - engine sound even with sport exhaust is super boring
6 - chassis a bit boring and with a tendency to understeer, in the typical situations we usually want to use power and turning angle to have fun
7 - In sporty driving the pdcc makes the feedback awful and difficult to read in the limit, car reactions seem strange
8 - rear suspension too soft and too much inverted pendulum effect in hard braking at high speed. Front suspension and front insertion not very agile and crisp.
9 - Steering a bit too heavy and in my opinion could have been much better calibrated to overcome the lack of hydraulic steering
10 - Accelerating the car from 3rs gear onward seems boring. And it is not necessarily if it accelerates more or less, it is the way it delivers the feeling of acceleration. many cars with less power are much more fun to accelerate in a straight line
11 - sport stability control setting still very conservative and understeering and not really for sporty driving.
12 - tires loose grip too early in most slow tight curves. Should have mounted some more sporty tires
13 - The car does not feel nimble, nor reactive. Feels heavy like a truck
14 - Quick steering at high speed shows the not so healthy softness of the default suspension, making the car oscillate too much in a counter reaction.
Overall, it is a car that is very efficient, that delivers what it promises, fast, comfortable, probably unmatched for this type of vehicle but as a driver's car, it is very very far away from being a nimble, reactive, predictable, emotional, and slightly fearful car to drive.
All these features are the features I wanted in a car, and unfortunately I was really far off with the 992 TTS. Important to say that the GT3 that I also tried as not my kind of car because of the lack of power.
So, I can clearly say that a 997 GT2 brings me hugely much more pleasure to drive, a 997.2 GT3 RS also, even if the engine is not really strong, an Alfa Romeu Giulia QV blows away the turbo S in terms of pleasure to drive, sportiness and overall man-machine connection ( even if the track times or acceleration times are obviously not as strong ) and unfortunatly we live in an era where people focus too much in the numbers of acceleration, power, etc..etc and care less about the driver's feel.
Driving slowly a Giulia QV gives me way more fun and feel than driving fast a turbo S.
All of this to say that I am not saying the the turbo S is a bad car, on the contrary, but overall, my real important features of a car are not really very aligned with the philosophy of development of the turbo S. Seeing it as the king of the 0-60 drag races does not tell the whole story of living with it.
btw, 997 GT2 RS might be peak 911 in my opinion, and maybe the 991 GT2 RS....Those are probably the cars.
The positives sides of the car:
1 - Very efficient traction, particularly in the wet
2 - Quick launch control ( not vey emotional in my opinion )
3 - Good comfort and quality in general
4 - relatively good brakes ( but limited by the OEM tires )
5 - Looks good
6 - Can perform very well in terms of speed and time attack
The negatives:
1 - some turbo lag, that is noticeable.
2 - first and second gears too short. they were developed with the frantic idea of having very good 0-60 times but overall too short for any type of sport driving
3 - difficult to use first and second gear in manual mode, particularly in sporty driving because of the short range of real usable engine revs. basically only after 4000 rpms
4 - engine from 5000 to 6000 rpms seems very dull and boring in the way it accelerates, transmits acceleration in the drivetrain, and the way it responds to throttle response. If gets a bit better after 6000, but not much
5 - engine sound even with sport exhaust is super boring
6 - chassis a bit boring and with a tendency to understeer, in the typical situations we usually want to use power and turning angle to have fun
7 - In sporty driving the pdcc makes the feedback awful and difficult to read in the limit, car reactions seem strange
8 - rear suspension too soft and too much inverted pendulum effect in hard braking at high speed. Front suspension and front insertion not very agile and crisp.
9 - Steering a bit too heavy and in my opinion could have been much better calibrated to overcome the lack of hydraulic steering
10 - Accelerating the car from 3rs gear onward seems boring. And it is not necessarily if it accelerates more or less, it is the way it delivers the feeling of acceleration. many cars with less power are much more fun to accelerate in a straight line
11 - sport stability control setting still very conservative and understeering and not really for sporty driving.
12 - tires loose grip too early in most slow tight curves. Should have mounted some more sporty tires
13 - The car does not feel nimble, nor reactive. Feels heavy like a truck
14 - Quick steering at high speed shows the not so healthy softness of the default suspension, making the car oscillate too much in a counter reaction.
Overall, it is a car that is very efficient, that delivers what it promises, fast, comfortable, probably unmatched for this type of vehicle but as a driver's car, it is very very far away from being a nimble, reactive, predictable, emotional, and slightly fearful car to drive.
All these features are the features I wanted in a car, and unfortunately I was really far off with the 992 TTS. Important to say that the GT3 that I also tried as not my kind of car because of the lack of power.
So, I can clearly say that a 997 GT2 brings me hugely much more pleasure to drive, a 997.2 GT3 RS also, even if the engine is not really strong, an Alfa Romeu Giulia QV blows away the turbo S in terms of pleasure to drive, sportiness and overall man-machine connection ( even if the track times or acceleration times are obviously not as strong ) and unfortunatly we live in an era where people focus too much in the numbers of acceleration, power, etc..etc and care less about the driver's feel.
Driving slowly a Giulia QV gives me way more fun and feel than driving fast a turbo S.
All of this to say that I am not saying the the turbo S is a bad car, on the contrary, but overall, my real important features of a car are not really very aligned with the philosophy of development of the turbo S. Seeing it as the king of the 0-60 drag races does not tell the whole story of living with it.
btw, 997 GT2 RS might be peak 911 in my opinion, and maybe the 991 GT2 RS....Those are probably the cars.
Have you ever driven any Ferraris or McLarens? I haven't, but people who own these cars highlight alot of positives that you seem to be yearning for in the Porsche that you feel are missing: driver engagement, steering reponsiveness, nimble handling, etc.
I would love to hear your take on those types of cars, or even cars that you have driven that do provide all of those points you are looking for.
05-07-2024, 02:25 PM
#73
Rennlist Member
in my opinion, the dynamic duo is a tts and a gt3. no regrets on the tts for me and have a gt3t on the way. the tts does so much so well, it's incredible imo. nothing has worn off for me in terms of the love for the car because i didn't buy it for what it's not. seems some folks end up doing this inadvertently...buying it based on the hype, image, or what they think it is, etc. vs what it really is. if someone is looking for a visceral feel then the tts isn't for you.
The following users liked this post:
heshalosny (05-07-2024)
05-07-2024, 03:19 PM
#74
Burning Brakes
for those still wondering with questions - skip forward to the 23:00 24:00 minute mark if you wish
Last edited by RD16RR; 05-07-2024 at 03:20 PM.
