daveo4porsche

I've done the PCCB thing for a bit now - my thinking in no particular order is below - YMMV - this is just my $0.02

• PCCB's are highly desirable as a factory option - this is good for resale and the overall "gestalt" of the vehicle
• the $9-10k factory option is the cheapest way you'll get these excellent brakes onto your vehicle - if you are even remotely considering them I'd suggest pull the tigger
• taking off PCCB's and running something else is easily accomplished and has few if any downsides
• pristine/street only PCCB's should be fine on the used market - just document when they were removed from the vehicle for future generations/suckers/buyers
• I love my PCCB's on track - with my 991.2 GT3 I easily achieved 2+ years of 20+ track days a year with nothing more than pad swaps - actual physical rotor wear measurement showed the rotor wear was manageable - and even with high cost of replacement factored across several pad swaps (6+ or more) the rotors longevity for the 991.2 is acceptable
• PCCB rotor replacement is a bitter pill to swallow when that day finally does come - but you have to remember all the money "saved" for deferred costs on other types of rotors for heavy track use
• PCCB's are effectively life time rotors for street use
• pad wear affects PCCB wear - no letting pad materials drop below 40% of original thickness should/may dramatically extend PCCB's rotor life - I was not vigilant with this on my 991.2 GT3 and right rear rotor wear was accelerated due to this fact - future I'm going to always have a set of PCCB pads with me and the car at every track event - and pad swaps will happen at the drop of a hat
• I have no particular love or hate for PCCB brake feel - seems ok to me - but I'm not deeply in tune with brake modulation to the degree others represent - YMMV
• PCCB's always offered stiff/consistent/firm feel - even during 30+ minute track sessions at COTA and Laguna and Sonoma - brake fade on PCCB's is very very very hard to accomplish vs. my iron gryo-disc rotors on the same car at the same tracks - 20+ minutes and some brake fade was beginning to present itself - 35+ minutes brake pedal feel has some confidence issues - never an issue with PCCB's
• limited track use w/PCCB's and excellent pad thickness should lead to limited/negligible PCCB rotor wear suich that it's not an issue (less than 10 days a year should be no issue but be generous with brake pad budget - new pads WILL extend your PCCB rotor life)
• cool down cycles after track are essential - easy slow loops in the paddock after coming off track to cool the brakes is best practice - I use the oil/water temps as a guide - I look for 15F drop in temps fluid temps from the dash data coming off track to know I've cooled the car enough to "park" it.
• PCCB's only wear if you get them hot - getting them "hot" depends on how quick a driver you are - the faster you are the harder your are on the brakes - if you don't get the PCCB's really really hot they don't wear that much - so if you are like most drivers you are not actually fast enough to aggressively wear PCCB's - which means you'll be fine (see above recommendations)
  • as an example when I was sharing a Cupcar with a "semi-pro driver" (has won at least two porsche series annual championships 2016 & 2023) - he was "onlly" 2-3 seconds faster than I was at laguna seca - but pads/rotors on the cup car would only last him a day - vs. me in the same car pads/rotors would last me an entire 3 day weekend - same car - same brakes - same pad compounds - same tires - but the difference between a pro-level lap pace and advanced amateur lap pace was 3x brake wear

my considers for replacing the factory PCCB's are as follows:

• their replacment costs are well understood when that day comes - and it's a big number - no doubt - but you also have to factor in how many pad swaps you achieved in that period of time.
• there is no downside to swapping brakes for track use - just extra costs of the 2nd set - but you're preserving a "pristine" set for when the car eventually gets sold.
  • even a dedicated set of PCCB rotors for track use is not a bad plan - take off factory set- and use "replacement" PCCB's for your track duty knowing you have an lightly used/pristine set back at home.
  • brembo 99.9% identical to porsche part numbers can be ordered from europe for significantly less than the Porsche factory rotors
    • brembo makes the rotors for porsche and they have the same porsche part numbers - I tracked bembo PCCB rotors - they are indistinguishable from Porsche factory set.
• when/if it comes time to sell the car I really really like the story of: these are the factory rotors that I took off the car after break in miles - they have no track miles on them - this is good for the seller, this is good for the buyer, and removes any concerns when selling the vehicle to avoid any nasty blow back.
  • depending on the buyer - i either sell the car w/track brakes on it - and sell the original rotors separately - or I put the factory rotors back on the vehicle and proceed from there.

my $0.02 - all of Porsche's brakes are excellent - but it all depends on your track use, your on track pace, and your tolerance for apparent costs as to what is best - YMMV

mthreat

Is there a thread or video showing a 992 GT3 (or GT3 RS) pad swap with stock brakes? I've done it many times with StopTech ST40 calipers on a previous car (not a Porsche), and that was pretty easy. But I think the stock 992 brakes may be harder.

GrantG

Very similar to Stop Tech process, but you have to dismount the caliper from the upright to swap pads (many Stop Techs don’t require this) and insert them from inside (rather than sliding in from outside).

GrantG

Very similar to Stop Tech process, but you have to dismount the caliper from the upright to swap pads (many Stop Techs don’t require this) and insert them from inside (rather than sliding in from outside).

If you’re going to be doing this somewhat frequently, good to replace caliper bolts with Girodisc studs and nuts to prevent thread damage to the fragile aluminum uprights.

ipse dixit

Post of the month.

AbsolutelyNobody

Thanks for the reply, these sound amazing and I'm very tempted!

JRitt@essex

Gents,

I'd ask you to also please don't forget about our AP Racing by Essex options. We offer both OEM-sized iron disc replacements as well as complete brake kits that also replace the OEM calipers. We literally now have hundreds of satisfied 991 and 992 GT3/RS clients running our systems. Most of them tell us it's one of the best mods they've ever done to their car, and most immediately set new personal best lap times after installing our systems. You can see lots of their feedback here: https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog
Our offerings for the 992 GT3 can be found here: https://www.essexparts.com/my-vehicl...T3/Iron%20Disc

Some key points to consider about our AP Racing by Essex Radi-CAL Competition Brake Kits:

• Complete replacement of the OEM brake system, including the calipers, allows the OEM brake system to be preserved and protects the car's resale value. You don't have to worry about the OEM caliper paint getting chipped, faded, turning different colors, the pistons being damaged, etc.
• Our complete brake system saves about 35 lbs. of unsprung weight vs. the OEM iron system. You gain most of the unsprung weight benefits of OEM or aftermarket carbon ceramic, without all the headaches (carbon ceramic discs that oxidize at high track temps, lack of pad options, poor feel, run hotter, huge replacement cost, prone to damage from track debris, limited wheel fitment, etc.)
• The initial purchase price of our complete brake system including the AP Racing Radi-CAL calipers is about the same as buying aftermarket carbon ceramic 2-piece Discs, and about half of what a set of OEM PCCB replacement discs costs ($30k-ish). You get a setup that saves a ton of unsprung weight (which is the primary benefit of carbon ceramic), but also offers a whole bunch of additional benefits while preserving your OEM calipers. Again, this is all for the same price as just the discs from other suppliers...you're basically getting a free set of incredible AP Radi-CAL calipers!
• Spare discs for our system are $699 each, which I believe is cheaper than carbon ceramic disc refurbishment per disc when shipping is factored in.
• We've had customers run our AP J Hooks for 10,000+ track miles before replacing them (which is about double the durability of what others claim). On a track miles driven per dollar basis, I have yet to see anything close to our setup.
• Your car isn't put out of commission for extended periods of time while your discs are being serviced. You purchase the new iron discs and can have them the next day...no downtime and no delays when your mechanic realizes the weekend before your next event that your discs are toast.
• There's no limit to how many sets of discs can be run through our system. When OEM PCCB discs are toast, they're trash. Aftermarket carbon ceramic discs can be refurbished 3 times and then they're dead. With our system you can simply install new iron discs for as long as you own the system (and as long as the next owner owns the system, which increases the kit's value)...unlimited disc replacements.
• Our complete brake system retains a great deal of value over time. Many of our customers pound on our brake kit for several years and then sell it when they sell their car and move on to the next one. Our kits typically change hands for about 65% of their purchase price, and a good chunk of the value is in the AP Racing calipers. Used 2-piece discs of any sort (iron or carbon ceramic) don't hold anywhere near that value, and the more times you refurbish discs the less valuable they become. With our system you get thousands of dollars coming back to you when you sell your car. You pull your pristine stock calipers and discs off the shelf and install them. Then you're gaining thousands of dollars when you sell your car, not shelling out thousands of dollars to refresh the brakes...that's a big delta!
• Changing pads in our AP Racing calipers is the easiest option of anything on the market. The calipers don't need to be removed...just a couple hex head bolts and pads pop out. It takes longer to raise the car and remove the wheels. Our system is much faster and easier to service than OEM calipers. Many of our GT3 customers, particularly those who drive on both the road and track, tell us the cost of entry for our system is worth it for the quick and easy pad changes alone.
• We have an option that allows you to run 25mm thick pads (CP9669 calipers), which greatly enhances the number of track miles driven before pads need replacing. Consumable costs vs. using stock calipers go way, way down with 25mm thick pads.
• The footprint of our complete brake system is very compact and allows for a wide array of wheel fitment options.
• The AP Racing calipers have anti-knockback springs, which greatly mitigates pad knockback and soft pedal issues on track.
• With mild pads installed, our system can be just as pedestrian as the OEM setup when tooling around at low speeds...no additional noises, vibrations, or NVH issues.
• The ventilated stainless steel pistons in the AP calipers reduce the amount of heat going into the caliper body and brake fluid, reducing the frequency of brake fluid bleeding.
• The AP Racing calipers use a common pad shape that can be had in a wide variety of flavors from all major pad manufacturers, and the brakes can be tuned for specific driving conditions, whether that is road or track. You don't need to run a pad that is compromised in one type of driving environment.
• Many factory Porsche racecars use AP Racing Radi-CAL calipers, including the Le Mans-winning RSR in years past and the new GT3 R. Our system is as close as one can get to what they're using.
• Brembo owns AP Racing, both companies have been in business for a very long time, both are in excellent financial standing, and we don't anticipate any disruption in supply for the foreseeable future.
• Essex has also been in business since the early 1980s. We have a warehouse in North Carolina with stacks of spare parts, and a full staff available for technical assistance. Call us during business hours and you'll immediately get a human on the phone!

In summary, with our AP Racing by Essex Radi-CAL kits you get most of the unsprung weight savings of carbon ceramic discs with OEM calipers, a huge unsprung weight savings over the OEM iron brake package, the longest-lasting discs under heavy track use, discs that are immediately available and cheaper to replace than other options, more pad options, easier pad swaps, and complete preservation of your OEM calipers. You also get more retained value with our system than with anything else when it comes time to sell your car. When you calculate the total cost of ownership, our system is by far the best value and investment you can make in brakes for your Porsche GT car. You're also getting a system that is as close to what the top factory Porsche racears are running in international endurance racing, along with full support from Essex, a long-time sponsor of this forum and supporter of this community.

Finally, for those who only want OEM iron disc replacements to mate to the factory calipers, we offer those as well and they are widely considered the most durable discs on the market.

Here's a technical video breakdown of our complete kits vs. the OEM 991 GT3 brakes (which are nearly identical to those on the 992 GT3):

lockie

My Porsche Mechanic (15years) after installing my AP Racing Brake kit on my 992 GT3 stated that these were the best brakes he had ever put on a Porsche.
Where I track most of the serious drivers (...driving the Porsches ) in the advanced group are running the AP Brake Kit.
I bought the Manthey PCCB pads for my 3RS but will probably just go back to my AP's. They are addictive.

mthreat

Where did you order the Manthey GT3RS PCCB pads? (I'm in the USA)

lockie

I live in Canada and I had to buy direct from Germany. It was pretty straightforward however Manthey doesn't take any credit cards so you have to wire the money to them. Shipping was pretty reasonable. PM me and I will send you the contact and the part numbers .

mthreat

Thanks, PM sent.

If anyone knows of a US dealer for Manthey pads please post here. thanks

TRAKCAR

I got about 20 track days per refurb of ST at Sebring, that's about 5000 miles I estimate and that's at Sebring, I consider my brake wear as bad as one can have.
Refurbed one set 3x, one was still like new when I sold them with my cars in 2020. I see no negative at all to using ST and seems to split the cost between steel rotors and PCCB.

Hinz Motorsport

Another happy customer just installed his Surface Transforms on his 992 GT3RS. This car came with factory Iron discs (408F/380R). These new ST kits for the 992 GT3/RS now match OEM sizes (although we can offer PCCB sizes (410/390) for those who want larger discs as well. Weights for the front STs are 12.5lbs each and the rears are 11.5lbs each. The factory 34mm front discs are reportedly 25.9 lbs each and the rears are 24 lbs each. If this is accurate, the total weight savings by switching from factory iron to STs is nearly 52 lbs of unsprung rotating mass. There is no other braking solution on the market currently that comes close to that for these cars. We will also be developing a package for GT cars featuring ST Rotors and PFC calipers. You can run 19" wheels and still clear these 410mm PCCB-sized discs with ease. 991 GT3/RS and GT4/RS fitments are being developed first. The PFC calipers should save an additional 10+lbs for a total savings of 60+lbs over OE iron brakes. Lose weight, and eliminate brake dust and noise, while running the best and longest-lasting brake discs on the market perfect on both street and track.

992 GT3RS Surface Transforms Iron Upgrade Kit

daveo4porsche

thank you so much for this - this is excellent information - I deeply appreciate you taking time to share your experience.

Nine_thousand

Thanks very much to all the people that take the time to share their knowledge and experience on these forums.

I’m specing my GT3 RS and I was surprised to have a buddy who does a lot of track days recommend steel rotors. I thought PCCBs were primarily for track use.

So I came to the forums to learn more, and wow there is a lot of great info and ideas and experience shared here.

Thank you!

Sounds like PCCB are right for me, with great options for switching to steel or aftermarket carbon rotors if I do more track days then currently planned.