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Some good life philosophy discussion intertwined with the pure car stuff on this thread.
You're correct. A lot of careers are not sustainable physically if you value your health. I was an urban trauma surgeon and stopped full time practice at 56. I was up all night with zero sleep 1 - 2x per week with the other days being 12 - 15 hours including weekends. From early on, I watched the generation ahead of me develop poor health or die young and/or lose their skills and sadly persist. I had the foresight to develop business and administrative skills and phase into the C-suite full time by 56. Even though that was more sustainable physically, it was an unpleasant rat race requiring 24/7 connectivity. I quit/retired at 61 and am not looking back. I did well financially overall but there were lean times (residency, early career) and gravy years (senior surgeon and C-suite). This odd lifetime income distribution makes me relatively conservative with my discretionary spending (i.e. cheap). I'm still on my first Porsche purchased in 2018 at age 57 and it's only a 718 CS now heavily modified for track duty. But I am coming around to the YOLO philosophy. Now if there were only some MSRP 3RS allocations for schmucks like me:}
I am in the medical field , rheumatologist, I rarely if ever, seen a surgeon , keep going full code , after the age of 70 . Very few do part time schedule
vs non surgical specialties, can go into early eighties .One of my partners practiced till his mid eighties full schedule , and till 90 part time
obviously assuming good physical and brain powers
Well played sir, well played.
Parallel approach here, although in the air traffic control career (and consultant afterlife), although I am a few years behind you.
YOLO light is what I've turned towards...more gray than complete dark side.
My son is interested in Air Traffic Control. Any insight to the profession ? Do's and Don'ts ?
I am in the medical field , rheumatologist, I rarely if ever, seen a surgeon , keep going full code , after the age of 70 . Very few do part time schedule
vs non surgical specialties, can go into early eighties .One of my partners practiced till his mid eighties full schedule , and till 90 part time
obviously assuming good physical and brain powers
Got any good rheumatlogist referrals in Vegas? My dad's arthritis gets bad down the winter when the rain and winds come.
Being a realtor I can keep going for a while and just have to make sure that my knees and hips and hold up going up and down stairs when I show homes. My goal before I hang it up is to help my client's kids purchase their first homes.
My son is interested in Air Traffic Control. Any insight to the profession ? Do's and Don'ts ?
non professional pilot here but lots of ATC friends in the northeast. The highly desirable areas like the coasts are great but you will have to be staffed in the boonies to start. Good salary great pension/benefits.
some places are chronically understaffed and there is still a big hiring push
may be a side note
for the same level of income , I find people that physically work harder for that income , have harder time spending their money, even if they have it, as compared to people that their income requires much less physical activity .
one factor is related to the perception/realization of the limited time available to generate such income .
for example , a surgeon after 60 may be max 70 , will have diminished ability to do as much surgeries to generate a certain income. Standing long hours in operating room , do 14-15 hours a day
vs a banker/finance people , there is no such physical limitation
I would suggest that this is an overly simplistic view.
One doesn't have to have a "physically" demanding job (standing on their feet all day or digging ditches) to have a limited amount of time to generate earnings and/or harder time spending money. - - - Burnout occurs all throughout the finance industry, not too mention growth sectors.
100-hour weeks are quite typical in the investment banking world.
It's not real good on a marriage either.
Last edited by Diablo Dude; 03-10-2024 at 06:10 PM.
Some good life philosophy discussion intertwined with the pure car stuff on this thread.
You're correct. A lot of careers are not sustainable physically if you value your health. I was an urban trauma surgeon and stopped full time practice at 56. I was up all night with zero sleep 1 - 2x per week with the other days being 12 - 15 hours including weekends. From early on, I watched the generation ahead of me develop poor health or die young and/or lose their skills and sadly persist. I had the foresight to develop business and administrative skills and phase into the C-suite full time by 56. Even though that was more sustainable physically, it was an unpleasant rat race requiring 24/7 connectivity. I quit/retired at 61 and am not looking back. I did well financially overall but there were lean times (residency, early career) and gravy years (senior surgeon and C-suite). This odd lifetime income distribution makes me relatively conservative with my discretionary spending (i.e. cheap). I'm still on my first Porsche purchased in 2018 at age 57 and it's only a 718 CS now heavily modified for track duty. But I am coming around to the YOLO philosophy. Now if there were only some MSRP 3RS allocations for schmucks like me:}
Originally Posted by pitt911
I am in the medical field , rheumatologist, I rarely if ever, seen a surgeon , keep going full code , after the age of 70 . Very few do part time schedule
vs non surgical specialties, can go into early eighties .One of my partners practiced till his mid eighties full schedule , and till 90 part time
obviously assuming good physical and brain powers
Pitt911's earlier observation correlating physical "work" with financial conservatism I believe applies to most of us in medicine- we generally don't have business interests (ie ownership in surgery centers, imaging centers, labs, heart hospitals) and are increasingly "employed" by hospitals or multi-specialty groups- we don't have passive income and stop making $ the day we stop physically seeing patients- and a day off is a day without income- which does not apply as much to those in venture capital / private equity, financial advisory / wealth management, etc. Other friends who are partners in large consulting firms make significantly more $ and also have generous pensions. Combined with the grind of med school + residency / fellowship + lifetime of uncompensated night / weekend call makes it (I think) harder to part with 3RS money + ADMs psychologically- as I can't help but translate the cost into how many patients I had to see to earn that (yes, kind of a demoralizing way to think, ugh)
I would suggest that this is an overly simplistic view.
One doesn't have to have a "physically" demanding job (standing on their feet all day or digging ditches) to have a limited amount of time to generate earnings and/or harder time spending money.
Burnout occurs all throughout the finance industry. 100-hour weeks are quite typical in the investment banking world. It's not real good on a marriage either.
I think you and Pitt911 are saying the same thing- "physically demanding" meaning many hours continuously grinding away 100% committed- this could be standing in the operating room or crunching #'s in front a computer, or being on-site 12 hrs a day directly running a small business.
The difference (and this is a huge difference) between investment banking, consulting, law VS medicine is that it doesn't matter how good you are in medicine. You can be the top ranked rheumatologist or general surgeon in the country and medicare / insurance won't reimburse a dollar more than a crappy provider. Unless you are a pure fee-for-service physician (very rare), you are legally obligated to accept whatever the contracted payment is- we are NOT allowed to collect more than this (+ copay). The only way to make more $ is to see more patients- which a good MD is not willing to do at the expense of patient care.
In almost every other high-level profession- your compensation is tied to your ability. Yes, an investment banker can get burnt out with the 100 hr work weeks (which is frankly no different than our medical school / residency / training)- the difference is we're not getting paid during that 7-10 yr period
And like many people, I'm surprised that we've not yet seen a recession, drop in the stock market, and drop in demand for these cars.
Why have you been so surprised?
Did you think that higher interest rates would have sent the economy into a recession by now?
How would higher rates impact the average household when their biggest expense is a mortgage and over 90% of mortgages are fixed and were refinanced at a very low rate?
For as many times as you've claimed that the economy was heading for a Recession, you've never really said why other than to perhaps point to an inverted yield curve (like everyone and their brother in the financial media) which isn't all that accurate of a forecasting tool.
The dollar itself is losing value, the asset price bubble continues to inflate...this is by definition not a recession. a lot of economics LARPers online who don't really understand what the economy is, who benefits from which levers being pulled, and severe lack of foresight.
We have been in an upward asset price condition and will remain there for quite some time- wage inflation is the latest confirmed element of that.
Once people start getting fired because they can really be replaced by bots or cheaper labor...then things will start to even out.
Good surgeons and other hard to replace jobs will continue to experience super high demand (travel nurses best example) and they will continue to have money to spend on fun things like cars and watches. The total flip value might not be as high as if rates were 1.99% but guess what...captive lenders in the auto industry are advertising super low rates again...they're spreading out their spend/losses over 60 months instead of a huge rebate all at once to achieve the same monthly payment target effect.
Got any good rheumatlogist referrals in Vegas? My dad's arthritis gets bad down the winter when the rain and winds come.
Being a realtor I can keep going for a while and just have to make sure that my knees and hips and hold up going up and down stairs when I show homes. My goal before I hang it up is to help my client's kids purchase their first homes.
I would suggest that this is an overly simplistic view.
One doesn't have to have a "physically" demanding job (standing on their feet all day or digging ditches) to have a limited amount of time to generate earnings and/or harder time spending money. - - - Burnout occurs all throughout the finance industry, not too mention growth sectors.
100-hour weeks are quite typical in the investment banking world.
It's not real good on a marriage either.
In medicine the demand is both physical and mental so it is a double whammy
so in finance , you can get burnt out mentally , but sitting in front of a computer is not physically demanding
you have to come to WV and meet some of the miners that have physical jobs , underground , and wearing ventilators for long shifts or people that work in the drilling industry
I am sure you know Warren Buffett , and Charles Munger, they are/were productive into 90 plus
and I never said it is simple , but this is what I have observed as a factor , most likely among many other factors
I think you and Pitt911 are saying the same thing- "physically demanding" meaning many hours continuously grinding away 100% committed- this could be standing in the operating room or crunching #'s in front a computer, or being on-site 12 hrs a day directly running a small business.
The difference (and this is a huge difference) between investment banking, consulting, law VS medicine is that it doesn't matter how good you are in medicine. You can be the top ranked rheumatologist or general surgeon in the country and medicare / insurance won't reimburse a dollar more than a crappy provider. Unless you are a pure fee-for-service physician (very rare), you are legally obligated to accept whatever the contracted payment is- we are NOT allowed to collect more than this (+ copay). The only way to make more $ is to see more patients- which a good MD is not willing to do at the expense of patient care.
In almost every other high-level profession- your compensation is tied to your ability. Yes, an investment banker can get burnt out with the 100 hr work weeks (which is frankly no different than our medical school / residency / training)- the difference is we're not getting paid during that 7-10 yr period
sadly enough In medicine the worse you are , the more money you get
classic example
one doctor sees a patient , have no clue what is wrong , order million tests , several visits and still does not know the answer after 6-8 visits , but still gets paid per visit
on the other hand , smarter doctor with excellent clinical skills , can figure out problem in a visit or two , but get paid the same per visit
also our employers want you to be less smart . Why ? because traditionally you order more testing, and more testing is more down stream revenue for the system
and some people believe this is why hospital systems love NP and PA . Why ? in general less clinical skills compared to doctors , so more testing and more down streams revenues
sadly enough In medicine the worse you are , the more money you get
classic example
one doctor sees a patient , have no clue what is wrong , order million tests , several visits and still does not know the answer after 6-8 visits , but still gets paid per visit
on the other hand , smarter doctor with excellent clinical skills , can figure out problem in a visit or two , but get paid the same per visit
also our employers want you to be less smart . Why ? because traditionally you order more testing, and more testing is more down stream revenue for the system
and some people believe this is why hospital systems love NP and PA . Why ? in general less clinical skills compared to doctors , so more testing and more down streams revenues
That is bloody awful. Time is of the essence if you have a condition that requires proper diagnosis early for effective treatment. Could be life or death situation. I would imagine the doctors ordering useless tests will eventually get flagged by insurance company that have to pay for the needlessly expensive tests. Not to mention your patients eventually will seek out 2nd opinion and even litigation since it’s borderline malpractice.
Run not walk if you have such a doctor or practice.
03-10-2024, 04:28 PM
