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I'm working with my local PCA track leadership to discuss this very issue.
in North America we run "windows down" for safety
in Europe they run "windows up" for safety
both parties can't be right
inducing heat stroke into driver's is not a "safe" practice
I'm hoping to work with PCA local leadership to escalate this issue so that we have an option - my local PCA club already allows "cupcars" testing during DE days to use blinkers for point by's and I don't believe it's good Aero or practice to run a GT3 RS with windows down for track driving.
In discussion this issue with Porsche engineers and instructors at Porsche Master's track day a the ring last year - I discussed wind buffeting with wikndows down and if Porsche had any idea as to if they were going fix it. All I got was blank stares as to why we run windows down, and why would anyone not want the windows up since the car at maximum performance trims is designed for the windows to be up…every porsche representative at that event expressed dismay and confusion as to why we run our track days with windows down, and that the vehicle's design center is not that configuration for high performance driving.
I believe it's time to work with North American track organization to review their "windows down" policies and see if they still make sense in the context of modern cars, race cars, and why was it done that way in the first place -and maybe vehicle's in general have moved on and now is a good time to update policies given changing product landscape.
at least that's my hope - but June/July @ Thunderhill in GT3 Rs - yeah I'm going to be discussing with my CDI/Track Chair to be given the same accomodation they give cupcars and GT4 Clubsports for my personal safety.
No, not all tracks or organizations in the US run windows up.
Certainly not private tracks. And many orgs outside of PCA do not have a "windows down" requirement. For example, Ron Fellows (Corvette) requires windows up. So go ahead and make fun of Corvettes all you want (you generically, not you specifically) but at least they have the window things down right.
Last edited by ipse dixit; 06-27-2023 at 12:58 AM.
I would think that if the side intakes are backed up with more flow in than the engine can suck up, that extra air would just keep flowing past without any drag penalty. There is also the ram air effect as speed increases. The intakes just take a bit of the air away from the flow down the side of the car. Being as the air intake on the RS is at the engine lid with flow over the roof, is the ram air effect far greater this way than in the side intakes?Let's not forget that HP is the same from 991 to 992 with exhaust restricted with the particulate filters, so does this extra flow help overcome that restriction?
You have to take into account emissions laws and noise buffering. The world's going mad and the designers are having to be more creative on internal engine design and efficiency to overcome these variables. At the end of the day this is a small displacement (imo) flat 6 that's truly been designed to the best of its ability based on tweaks and design flaws discovered in prior generations. The ram air effect is likely a factor aswell to aid in better performance in lower RPM aswell.
Have driven mine 200 miles so far and the ride on the road is fantastic. Of course it’s an RS but even in sport mode I don’t find the ride uncomfortable. I have been pleasantly surprised.
There is no sign of the wing in the rearview mirror which is helpful.
one interesting thing is because there is no frunk, there is no glovebox. The tools for the tires are stuffed into the glove box rendering it useless. Not a huge deal, I expected the storage to be comically bad given there is no
luggage compartment.
The one big surprise is the hot air being evacuated from the radiators. In hot weather there is no way you can drive with the windows open at speed. A lot of hot air is sucked into the cabin. This will be an issue at at hot weather track events where windows open is required. It is very noticeable.
Does turning on the AC help with the heat with the windows open? If not, looks like it would be best to track this thing in colder weather where windows down are required.
Yes, it’s time for US track events to get onboard with the Euro standard and allow windows up. I’m sure that aside from annoying wind buffeting and cooking the occupants, that a significant part of the potential downforce is lost (and drag increased) with the windows down.
Do you believe that on a 2.5 mile track it would actually make a noticeable difference on downforce?
Does turning on the AC help with the heat with the windows open? If not, looks like it would be best to track this thing in colder weather where windows down are required.
The heat coming in to the cabin overwhelms the A/C easily.
None of this really bothers me. I do think the general momentum is towards windows up anyways. Personally, I don’t really like sweltering hot track days anyway. Tires get greasy, paddock is brutally hot.
PCA FL allows windows up running every once in a while.
Counter take... tried it, didn't like it. Felt insulated and loss of (audible) feedback from car. Sure I'd get used to it, but after a track lifetime exclusively windows down it was unsettling, actually. Don't think it'd be an issue in a Cup car etc. with carbon doors, poly windows, no sound deadening.
Wonder if RS radiator heat is an issue at track speeds where there's so much air flow coming in, swirling around cabin
Does turning on the AC help with the heat with the windows open? If not, looks like it would be best to track this thing in colder weather where windows down are required.
I believe the AC compressor is switched off when at full throttle in the GT3. So, the AC may not be doing all that much on track anyway.
From: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
Originally Posted by sgroer
The heat coming in to the cabin overwhelms the A/C easily.
None of this really bothers me. I do think the general momentum is towards windows up anyways. Personally, I don’t really like sweltering hot track days anyway. Tires get greasy, paddock is brutally hot.
Problem is that, in much of the country, much of the track season is pretty hot.
I would definitely try a sizable wind deflector next to the side mirror. The hot air coming out of the hood vents mostly stays near the hood and it looks like a deflector could push a meaningful percentage of that hot air away from the side window. Could do a custom deflector for this car which reaches up higher along the A pillar; might look goofy, but it might solve the problem.
3RS guys are going to need to do some experimenting to solve this problem. Hoping and waiting for DE organizations to allow windows up, or avoiding the track during warmer weather, aren't good solutions.
Surprised by the concern about cabin temp. I mean, how long is the average session - 20 minutes? Are open face helmets and t-shirts allowed? A little bit of suffering builds character.
From: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
Originally Posted by Scrappy1972
Surprised by the concern about cabin temp. I mean, how long is the average session - 20 minutes? Are open face helmets and t-shirts allowed? A little bit of suffering builds character.
When you start out hot in the paddock, expending energy in the car with hot air blowing in can indeed be a problem. Many of us are not that young and not that tolerant of heat. Factor in the higher G forces with this car because of the downforce and the demands on the driver are even greater.
06-27-2023 | 12:55 AM
