Year-round tires for my 991?
01-03-2018, 04:12 PM
#46
Rennlist Member
My buddy just asked me how well my 996 works in these -10F temps with all seasons. To be honest, shockingly well. Now, to be fair, it hasn't snowed that much yet. But on cold, dry pavement, the Michelin AS3+ stick way better at -10F than the stock summer tires at 45F on a recent 991.2 I drove last month.
My buddy just bought a 2018 M2, and he is deciding between All Seasons and dedicated winters. I think he should go dedicated winters, since his summer tires are brand new today. But there's another reason: I suspect - and I could be wrong - that all seasons on 911s work better than all seasons on other cars, such as the M2...
I ended up doing a lot of math, but essentially, the added weight on the 911 versus the M2 equates to about 220 lbs of additional rear tire static weight, which is equivalent to 7.3 30 lb sandbags that would have to be added to the rear tires of the M2 to match the weight advantage of the 911. And if you add in weight transfer under acceleration, it's about the same benefits (the 911 is over 220 lb more weight).
I didn't account for turning or braking, just acceleration, but still - the old adage of adding sandbags might have been dis-proven in same case where the additional weight isn't actually over the tires directly, but when it comes to acceleration and weight transfer, it absolutely does.
And this math probably explains why my M5 needed Blizzacks, but my Boxster S and 911s could get by with all seasons in the winter.
My buddy just bought a 2018 M2, and he is deciding between All Seasons and dedicated winters. I think he should go dedicated winters, since his summer tires are brand new today. But there's another reason: I suspect - and I could be wrong - that all seasons on 911s work better than all seasons on other cars, such as the M2...
I ended up doing a lot of math, but essentially, the added weight on the 911 versus the M2 equates to about 220 lbs of additional rear tire static weight, which is equivalent to 7.3 30 lb sandbags that would have to be added to the rear tires of the M2 to match the weight advantage of the 911. And if you add in weight transfer under acceleration, it's about the same benefits (the 911 is over 220 lb more weight).
I didn't account for turning or braking, just acceleration, but still - the old adage of adding sandbags might have been dis-proven in same case where the additional weight isn't actually over the tires directly, but when it comes to acceleration and weight transfer, it absolutely does.
And this math probably explains why my M5 needed Blizzacks, but my Boxster S and 911s could get by with all seasons in the winter.
01-04-2018, 07:28 AM
#49
01-04-2018, 08:07 AM
#51
Instructor
Yeah for the last decade I used to think that too, however...
I never actually drove on winter tires during the summer (like you said why would you) so had no real point of reference.
I did have that point of reference with summer tires during winter... very very bad, would not recommend that to anyone whom loves his car!
This year I just didn't have the time to make the switch to summer rubber until 2 months before winter so I kept my winters on.
I have to say that the only time I wished I had my summers on was when we were playing halogens with a group of Ferrari's, Lambo's R8's etc.
great day, did a bit of track too and THAT is when I wished I had made the time to put summers on.
Outside of this one time I honestly can't say that the car performed less to such an extent that it bothered me.
We do a early morning run through the mountains with our PCA every other Sunday.
In those conditions I even had a bit of an advantage to other 911's with summer rubber.
I'd say I got about 85/90% performance compared to summer tires in warmer temps.
The real kicker is that these are Pirelli's lol
Always hated them on my other cars but the oem 991 NO's have changed my mind, absolutely love 'm (I know I'm in the minority).
Not saying I'm planning to do it again this year, but I'm considering it... especially now that Pirelli has them in 305's
01-04-2018, 08:47 AM
#52
Rennlist Member
To be fair, those 991 summers were Perellis - known for being hockey pucks - and I’m sure Michelin’s would have been way better.
I can also say that my same all seasons attained a 3:01 lap time track event (Autobahn Full Course) compared to PSS4s that hit 3:00 on the same track.
01-04-2018, 08:53 AM
#53
Personally where I live all seasons would be a great option for the winter. We rarely get snow (ironic I type that in the first blizzard we've had in 30+ years)...and our temps drop below 40 for less than 8 weeks of the year. All seasons would be reasonable IMO as an alternative to winter tires as our temps are often high enough (even during winter) that they would accelerate wear of winter tires. Also I believe the more aggressive all seasons perform better in the dry than winter tires. Unfortunately there are no all seasons available in OEM 20" 991 sizes.
Cheers,
NF
Cheers,
NF
01-04-2018, 11:15 AM
#54
Three Wheelin'
01-03-2020, 09:19 PM
#55
Instructor
Toyo Proxes 4 Plus is an option. You'll have to search a bit but there is fitment for 20" wheel and the 295 rears. Put them on my base 2013 C2 and they were fine. Seattle is pretty much an in between weather area for either summer or winter tires. However, I'm using dedicated summer and winter tires on my C2S now and couldn't be happier with that choice.
Few of us drive our cars close to its full potential so I really don't see a downside to running AS tires in some places (Seattle being one of them).
Few of us drive our cars close to its full potential so I really don't see a downside to running AS tires in some places (Seattle being one of them).
01-03-2020, 10:13 PM
#56
Rennlist Member
I bought a set of mounted snow tires on cup wheels.
19 inch Sottozeros. Using them on my 2013 C2 S here in NH. Work great in cold temps. Quieter than my Michelin PS4s.
They grip great and have less road noise than the PS4s.
They grip great and have less road noise than the PS4s.
Last edited by cpbmd; 01-03-2020 at 11:06 PM.