randr

Chasing HP/TQE is a waste of time. Chasing performance driving skills is an investment that pays far greater dividends.

(1) HPD tuition
(2) tires

Job done

There are always consequences of "reflash" power upgrades - generally short term gain for long term pain. Worse still are the crooked owners who on sell their car after removing the "tune".

The advantage of the power kits is they are what Porsche engineers have designed to produce uprated power and torque reliably.

Churchill

I've always found the powerkit to be one of the most puzzling things a person could spend money on. An undetectable increase in power (30HP in a 400HP car) for what, $15K? To each his own, but it's always struck me as throwing your money away, or in this case, making the Porsche marketing department guys look like geniuses.

OKB

on the older cars you got the different internal mods like pistons, heads, etc. But on this turbo engine all they claim is bigger turbos. Not to say you couldnt retro fit them yourself. or buy aftermkt even bigger better turbos for $10k but ruin the warrantee. the potential to boost the power kit bigger turbos engine ecu to 100hp more is very probible

ipse dixit

Aftermarket ECU tunes will just about guarantee grounds for Porsche to void your OEM warranty.

Even with reflashes and what-not workarounds, all of the car's data is logged. So big brothers at Stuttgart know all.

NoGaBiker

Funny the earlier mention about "450hp being time for AWD" in a Porsche. I was thinking about this the other day. Porsche made that claim back in 1996, saying essentially the Turbo must be AWD now because with 400hp/400tq it's irresponsible to let the genpop loose without AWD.

My first Turbo was a 2002 996 with the X50 power kit; 450hp/460tq. Of course it was also AWD, and to get the same level of power without AWD, you had to go the GT2 route. (X50 was essentially the GT2 turbos and ECU in a standard Turbo.) And it was a beast, even by today's standards. I've driven one in the last year and nobody would accuse one of being passed on by technology as far as the power goes.

But back to the original premise: today Carrera drivers can get that same 450hp with what, 375tq? Now that's a long way from the 460tq my 996TT had, but it's not far from the 400 the 993TT had, when it was deemed imperative to have AWD.

Point being: I wonder if the C2S's days are numbered, and in the near future if you want a C2 it will have to be without the "S"?

Of course, Traction Control has advanced over the years, but the 996Turbo had PSM in 2000, which essentially soldiers on today.

R_Rated

All good thoughts and largely the reason for having a Porsche... last car was over 500/500 in a RWD and chassis not capable of fully keeping it down. A couple of things help in a 911... the weight of the engine over the back wheels is a huge advantage in getting the power to the road and a capable chassis is huge.

Also am AWD - hybrid 911... any predictions on the weight of that pig? You know the hybrid tech is coming and talk about a rush of torque....

kayjh

BMW is answering that question with the G30 series (2018 or 19) M5. With close to 600 hp expected the question everyone was asking was how do you get that power to the road through 2 rear tires? I test drove a 2015 model and the traction control kept intervening. I'm sure a 550 X Drive wouldn't be too far behind it in all but the best of road conditions.

I'm reading that BMW's answer will be an optional AWD system that is rear biased (like Porsche), but in addition can be defeated with a button, sending 100% of the power to the rear wheels. So, it can handle like a rear wheel drive car and have the traction of AWD when you want it.

Versatile. I went C4 to add versatility to my car for off season driving.

R_Rated

Corvette seems to be doing fine with 650hp and less weight and then there are stupid cars like the hellcat that have no chance of putting down 707hp. Tires are key here. Chevy got smart and picked the best street tire they could... Put the same michelins on a 911 and lap times will greatly improve in magazine comps.

George from MD

You nailed it. Using even 6/10ths of that power on the street you're endangering your life and plenty of others. I can't tell you how many people come to DEs without knowing how to drive. And those are the good ones- they want to learn and do.

That kind of money will pay for a lot of DEs or other forms of drivers ed.

kayjh

Tell me you wouldn't be more confident behind the wheel with all 4 wheels handling that power though. No doubt the traction control dials the power back to get off the line without excessive wheel spin.

MagicRat

Re the powerkit, I can totally see the appeal of saving the money and believing that one wouldn't feel a 7.5% increase in power. I also understand the satisfaction in driving around in a car that's completely unmodified and knowing one's warranty is definitely intact and all is as Stuttgart intended.

That said there are others who think 7.5% is a pretty solid gain on most metrics and who believe a reasonably sensitive driver would indeed be able to tell that difference. Also, there is a case to be made for modifying a car to make it exactly right for you, and taking on the bit of extra risk that that entails.

I've often planned to be in the first camp, but ended up enjoying life in the second. Have never had a car or bike I didn't 'personalise' in some way. And I know the best mod you can make is to become a better driver, but there sometimes feels to be an assumption of mutual exclusivity that l would like to question. Can only give my own example, but I have a RoSPA gold test pass on a bike and took said test on a remapped BMW with a full, catless Akrapovic exhaust. Best of both worlds, see?

R_Rated

yes and no. My last car had the high tq and RWD... it was fantastic to pass on the interstate with minimal effort. The N/A Porsches don't have the torque and have a great electronic differential. That combined with the weight over the rear wheels, my 991.1 C2S always feels planted unless its cold outside and the tires haven't warmed up.

That being said - Corvette puts a 335 on the rear with a good tire. That makes a HUGE difference. With a subpar tire and thinner then yes, AWD would be "better." It's more about the whole combination though.

The 991.1 is fine in RWD and completely planted and balanced. The 991.2 starts to make a case for AWD but more because of the way it makes power - specifically the new low range of torque. Completely different but ediff tech has gotten really good which compensates a lot.

Years ago I was at the track and Eurotuner was doing a feature on my Volvo that make 500awhp. There was some schmuck there with a twin turbo 350Z and a 1,200rwhp dyno sheet. He also had giant wheels with factory brakes and a really heavy stereo... but loved to talk trash about how fast he was.... We bet 100 bucks on lap times. I told him I could get faster lap times in my friend's spec miata making maybe 180bhp but gutted with the works on suspension and brakes. He laughed so I offered to raise the stakes to $500 but only the 3rd lap counted. My pitch was for me to get used to the car. We shook and it was glorious. After the first lap and a half his brakes were nill. My third lap time was almost 30 seconds faster. He never paid but shut his mouth and left early The moral of that story is that hp is only part of the equation to have fun and there is definitely such a thing as too much.

kayjh

Agreed (from a guy who ordered a base car)

trice9

I think the difference with the 991.2 powerkit vs 991.1 is the increase in torque. Will one notice the hp bump from 420 to 450? Not likely in most driving situations. But you will notice the torque increase of 37 lb-ft during moderate to hard acceleration. IIRC, the 991.1 powerkit/gts was mostly a HP improvement, not a torque improvement.

Dewinator

HP = Torque x RPM ÷ 5252 according to Google. To say that HP increases with no increase in torque is a misunderstanding, there simply isn't an increase in peak torque because the power increase doesn't happen at peak torque RPMs.