Only one reason to get a 4GTS over a Turbo. Similarly equipped the price deltas are not major at all.

 

then it must be true

seriously, this depends entirely on tires and grip conditions... let's use our common sense... all else equal one car has more weight and more front traction... so it just depends on whether the traction benefit can overcome the weight disadvantage

^^^ this ^^^

Unless they have redone the rws calibration (which they may well have done) i have found the system to be disconcerting in wider butt cars in hard charging tight radius turns... the system kicks in when you as driver are aiming the nose into the apex and then whoa! the system tightens the line further for you and you as driver need to readjust ... the added stance width of a 991 gt3 rs exacerbates this problem substantially over a nb regular 991 gt3... the effect on an rs is not subtle and it can be disconcerting... and you cannot turn off rws

 

For clarity I mean that I don't consider myself a very skilled driver, and I live in the pacific northwest, so for me the AWD option made the most sense. Daily use or even at the track, AWD will be safer and faster for me in any spirited situation. And I accept the minor penalty to steering/chassis feel that goes along with that.

I hope it didn't sound like I was putting down anyone who chose AWD. I just wanted to offer the perspective that isn't just about listed numbers, since on paper it seems ridiculous that anyone would choose the GTS 4. But there are good reasons for us mortals.

 

With all due respect, if given a choice between believing Porsche's data or your anecdotal "science", I'll stick with Porsche.
And yes I understand the traction vs. weight issue. It is not unreasonable to think that the new more powerful engines need the 4WD traction in all conditions to optimize acceleration. I'd like to see data to support your argument. I'm willing to listen and change my opinion if you can provide some facts.

 

2WD GTS. Summer = Summer Tires, Winter = Winter Tires (or garage it). I like the lightness of the front of a 2WD Porsche.

2WD = Cheaper, Lighter, More Fun, and Less Parts to Break

The only reason I would consider an AWD is if I'm comparing a 4S over a 2S. I prefer the widebody look. But since all GTS are wide bodies, no brainer to go 2WD unless you live in wayy north of the snowbelt and drives the 911 daily.

 

sorry bud... i have no facts, and i don't offer any ... just common sense... and i have even less interest in convincing you of anything ... this is just an internet discussion forum

we shd all believe what we want to be happy

 

I went from two 2Sa 4S. The 4S starts in RWD and only shifts to the front wheels as imperceptible slippage is detected. The grip and traction in this thing is insane - the car can pivot on its axis. If you want to slide a 4S - you can - remember the weight is out back and PTM has a mid range mode you can engage (the 2S does as well) to engage sliding. Personally I'm so stoked I got the 4S because the g's you're pulling in the car are ridiculous. Not saying the 2S isn't a ton of pudding - just a different flavor - indulge and enjoy.

PS
It's really hard on a test drive with the salesman next to you to explore what a 4S can do - just to give some perspective on the limits...

 

To me, it's interesting that Porsche engineers, who presumably are some of the brightest, best educated and best trained individuals in the world chose to put 4WD systems in the two most powerful cars that Porsche has produced in the last 10 years. (918 and Turbo S). Apparently it wasn't "common sense" to them that a 2WD version would have been faster. But what do they know?
BTW, I don't believe in what makes me happy. I believe in science, mathematics and physics, even if it makes me unhappy. When I'm presented with data (which I can't test myself) from a reputable source, I tend to favor that information rather than that from a different source, who can't produce anything other than the "common sense" argument.

 

Curious, where does the GT2 and GT2RS fall in this science scenario of yours?

 

We drive a 911, the engine has been in the incorrect position (hanging behind the rear wheel) since its inception. That's why we all love it, the driver has to learn to drive a car with this engineering flaw. You have to learn how to respect a 911's ability to kill you before you could drive it quickly (with 2WD).

And Turbo 911s are considered "touring" car and 918 is considered a "hyper" car which has electric motors assist in front, the P1 (hyper car category) is RWD and has proven to be just as fast (if not faster) as the AWD 918 on the track. Plus, Turbos and 918 have way too much torque to be logical RWD. Our Base, S, and GTS don't make enough torque to break traction when the rear end squats during acceleration as our weight distribution of a 911 is 40/60.

Cup Racing, F1, Indy, Nascar, etc. are RWD. Only AWD motorports that I know of are WRC, Baja racing, and Rock Crawling?

Also, AWD doesn't mean you don't need winter tires for the winter. Big misconception for people who like the convenience of an AWD.

But to each their own, some like manual over DCT, some like hardtop over verts, and others like 2WD over AWD. No right answer, but a 911 is a 911 so they're all great cars. I'm glad Porsche offer enough variety to match everyone's taste and need.

 

I stand corrected. As I said, I'm willing to listen to facts even if it proves me wrong. (or I could assert like someone else in this thread that just because it's listed on Porsche literature as 2WD doesn't mean that it's actually true).

 

I own a 991.1 GT3 (which of course has RWS). And I can report the steering on it is otherwordly good. I also have a GT4, which has the same front end as 991.1 GT3 but no RWS. Despite reviewer's reports that GT4 steering is great, I can report that in side by side driving of both cars on same twisty mountain roads at same time, GT3 steering feels even crisper and more responsive, thanks, I think, mostly to the RWS.

All else being equal, the GT4 ought to have a an advantage over the GT3 in steering feel due to lighter overall weight of car and mid-engine balance, but it does not.

When I bought the GT3, I test drive it side by side with a new 991.1 GTS (2wd) and a used 991.1 50th Anniversary model (same setup as the GTS, basically). While both those cars were very good, they had no way near the telepathic steering feel as the GT3. Of course some of that difference one can chaulk up to the inherent differences in front suspension setup or maybe a tighter steering ratio on GT3 vs regular series 911's, I am confident much of the difference in feel was due to the GT3's RWS.

I have never felt that the RWS on my GT3 was anything other than a positive benefit, and I would order it as an option on a new GTS without hesitation.

 

That's just what I wanted to hear. I'm glad I ticked the rear wheel steering option.

 

991 gt3 steering is indeed superb beyond other 991's, and that is because its software calibration is different than other 991's... rear steer is incorporated but it is not only that ... how the calibration compares to the new 991.2 GTS... i dunno, but i suspect pag won't deliver a 991.2 gts that turns in quite like a gt3... just my guess

versus a gt4 i would say that 991 gt3 steering sharpness can only be properly compared to gt4 steering when more camber (-2.5 degrees or more) is dialed in from factory settings on both cars... factory gt4 camber settings are very mild and does affects turn in, delivering more understeer than in the gt3... why they do that, i also don't know... i have both these cars, and took delivery of both of them new, so this i know first hand

my comment on the one minor negative area w.r.t. rws is only on very tight radius turns where the RWS goes into 'opposite steer' mode so to speak, and my point is that i find the issue more noticeable on the wider rear track cars... having driven the 1.1 gt3 vs rs back to back extensively on track and on road... over 30 mph or so the rws is in 'same direction steer' mode and in this mode it makes a HUGE difference in making the car feel nimble at speed... my 991 50th... which is mechanically a 2wd gts w/o rws as you know... feels much more reluctant to turn than the 1gt3

this isn't to say that IN GENERAL the steering on these cars aren't sublime...( of course they are)... it is not the point of my comment citing the issue i bring up

 

I've never had the pleasure to drive a GT3 RS, much less a GT3 and GT3 RS side by side on track, so I'll have to defer to you on that experience.

However, as I understand it from Porsche, RWS turns the rear wheels in the opposite direction as the front wheels at speeds up to 31 mph, mimicking the effect of a shorter wheelbase for crisper turn in. From 32-49 mph, it's neutral. And from 50 mph+, it turns the rear wheels in the same direction as the front wheels, mimicking the effect of a longer wheelbase for less twitchy more stable turns.

Long story short, its effects shouldn't be very noticeable in fast or medium speed turns. And in tight slow speed turns (I think) it only enhances steering feel.