Curious how many PDK owners would go back to a manual for the next one?
10-09-2016, 08:47 AM
#31
Rennlist Member
I'm a manual 991 owner and I'd possibly go to a PDK if traffic were a daily occurrence. The commute I have starts with some side streets followed by highway opposite traffic. Having a manual is bliss and even my wife loves it...
10-09-2016, 01:32 PM
#32
Burning Brakes
What? Your justification for "not really" is that a manual transmission is more limited? That's the silliest argument I've heard in a long time.
Your original statement was that "full manual control" was the best. That a PDK transmission can do full manual control and automatic doesn't turn the full manual control into a "dealer sales pitch."
"Not really" only makes sense if you're saying they don't feel the same. That's moving the goalposts. No one is arguing that pressing a button feels anything like working the clutch and moving a gearshift. That'd be silly, too. We were talking capabilities, not feel. I was quite explicit about that in my earlier reply.
Liking the feel of a manual makes sense. I know I sure do. It's not really "work" as you put it, except for left-leg fatigue in stop-and-go traffic. The arm movements aren't tiring, and the mental part is as reflexive as making a minor steering adjustment. But talking up the drawbacks as if they were virtues? Ridiculous.
Being a "rebel" seems like a non-sequitur. What's to rebel against? My wife strongly prefers the manual transmission in her Cayman S to the PDK in my 991.1 4S, and "rebellion" doesn't remotely enter into it. It's about the engagement of driving manual, not some imaginary us-vs-"them" power struggle.
Your original statement was that "full manual control" was the best. That a PDK transmission can do full manual control and automatic doesn't turn the full manual control into a "dealer sales pitch."
"Not really" only makes sense if you're saying they don't feel the same. That's moving the goalposts. No one is arguing that pressing a button feels anything like working the clutch and moving a gearshift. That'd be silly, too. We were talking capabilities, not feel. I was quite explicit about that in my earlier reply.
Liking the feel of a manual makes sense. I know I sure do. It's not really "work" as you put it, except for left-leg fatigue in stop-and-go traffic. The arm movements aren't tiring, and the mental part is as reflexive as making a minor steering adjustment. But talking up the drawbacks as if they were virtues? Ridiculous.
Being a "rebel" seems like a non-sequitur. What's to rebel against? My wife strongly prefers the manual transmission in her Cayman S to the PDK in my 991.1 4S, and "rebellion" doesn't remotely enter into it. It's about the engagement of driving manual, not some imaginary us-vs-"them" power struggle.
10-09-2016, 01:53 PM
#33
I'm 39 and after 21yrs of driving manuals I had enough! PDK is good in that I don't miss the actual clutch pedal but would love to see an auto gearbox that resembles the shifting patterns of the manual box. The up and down concept gets boring so i switch between that and the buttons on the MF steering wheel.
Once in a while I really crave a manual but with TONs of traffic where we live, I keep telling myself to stay away. Ideally I'll get to have one of each in the future
I drive a 2015 GTS, as a reference...
Once in a while I really crave a manual but with TONs of traffic where we live, I keep telling myself to stay away. Ideally I'll get to have one of each in the future
I drive a 2015 GTS, as a reference...
10-09-2016, 03:04 PM
#34
Instructor
I'd rather poke my eyes with a hot needle than drive a manual car in London traffic.
Not a hope in hell.
20 years ago I said the exact opposite. Way less traffic then, plus auto gearbox's were crap.
Most of todays DCT's operate like witchcraft!
The current PDK is sublime, what's not to like!
Not a hope in hell.
20 years ago I said the exact opposite. Way less traffic then, plus auto gearbox's were crap.
Most of todays DCT's operate like witchcraft!
The current PDK is sublime, what's not to like!
10-09-2016, 03:09 PM
#35
Drifting
I've been driving 911's since the mid 1980's. All were manuals until my 2015 991 GTS with PDK. I occasionally think back to my manual 911's, but have no plans to buy another one with manual.
10-09-2016, 03:39 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
I'd driven manuals for around 40 years and loved 'em. I'm now on my second PDK and would be unlikely to go back. However, I certainly understand the fun of a manual and have no criticism for those that prefer them.
But here's a comment I haven't seen in the this thread and it is what drove the bottom line choice for me:
The second consideration is that I do at times drive hard and there have been a few times over all those years I've missed shifts. There was never anything that blew the engine... but they've certainly revved enough to be worrisome. With a PDK I don't have to worry about that and repairs for catastrophic damage from a money shift. I like that a lot... and it allows me to concentrate more on all of the other dangers out there.
But here's a comment I haven't seen in the this thread and it is what drove the bottom line choice for me:
I like for my cars to be as fast as possible. I like to win.
I wasn't willing to throw away two-tenths of a second 0-60 for the sake of rowing a lever myself as opposed to tapping a paddle (how much money are many of us willing to spend to pick up that much time?!). And that isn't just about straight-line speed in a drag race. I'm certain I wouldn't have had my novice-class autocross win last year without the PDK; the times among the top few cars was very close.The second consideration is that I do at times drive hard and there have been a few times over all those years I've missed shifts. There was never anything that blew the engine... but they've certainly revved enough to be worrisome. With a PDK I don't have to worry about that and repairs for catastrophic damage from a money shift. I like that a lot... and it allows me to concentrate more on all of the other dangers out there.
10-09-2016, 03:55 PM
#37
I thought this was settled? 
It's the most personal thing in the world. You either like it, or not, and it even depends on the car of course. Not sure why people even discuss it really--what's true for one person doesn't affect another person.
Skiing is a terribly inefficient way to get down a mountain. I mean, who would do such a dumb manual thing? Why do we do anything "manual"? Some activities just feel satisfying for the human brain/body to be involved with. Rarely is the human as good as a computer version. But that shouldn't even be part of the consideration.
Manual vs automatic is a choice for a thousand things we do each day. Sometimes there is a cost or safety consideration. Many times it's just personal preference. If someone isn't putting your life in danger, why try to tell them what they should like?
Arguing about it just makes someone's insecurity obvious. Regretted choosing a manual? Argue how it's better for reasons X Y and Z. Jealous of those who enjoy manuals? Argue automatic is better for X Y and Z. The facts listed are usually all true, but none of them matter. It's what an individual wants. If someone asks, it's best to encourage them to drive the car they are considering and decide for themselves.
Those of us confident in our choices are just happy and content while everyone else tries to justify their choice and sooth their insecurities.
It's the most personal thing in the world. You either like it, or not, and it even depends on the car of course. Not sure why people even discuss it really--what's true for one person doesn't affect another person.
Skiing is a terribly inefficient way to get down a mountain. I mean, who would do such a dumb manual thing? Why do we do anything "manual"? Some activities just feel satisfying for the human brain/body to be involved with. Rarely is the human as good as a computer version. But that shouldn't even be part of the consideration.
Manual vs automatic is a choice for a thousand things we do each day. Sometimes there is a cost or safety consideration. Many times it's just personal preference. If someone isn't putting your life in danger, why try to tell them what they should like?
Arguing about it just makes someone's insecurity obvious. Regretted choosing a manual? Argue how it's better for reasons X Y and Z. Jealous of those who enjoy manuals? Argue automatic is better for X Y and Z. The facts listed are usually all true, but none of them matter. It's what an individual wants. If someone asks, it's best to encourage them to drive the car they are considering and decide for themselves.
Those of us confident in our choices are just happy and content while everyone else tries to justify their choice and sooth their insecurities.
10-09-2016, 04:10 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
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I am switching back to a manual for my daily driver moving from my 2008 Lexus IS350 to a 991.2 7MT. I wanted to like a PDK because it is faster and more efficient - I like that aspect. I've driven a PDK on a track and on the street. I just friggin hated it honestly. No disrespect intended, but a PDK is an old man's transmission and I am saying that as a 50 year old. I don't even think about it when I am shifting a manual. It's like riding a bike or walking for me. Traffic or no traffic. My only complaint is that the brake pedal is too high in my Boxster and the clutch pedal is too soft in a 991.2.
I am keeping my 2014 981 NA Boxster S with a 6MT, PSE and SC for when I really want to feel alive.
10-09-2016, 06:01 PM
#40
Amongst Porsche 911 owner’s, manual transmissions are typically favoured by the older drivers. These folk are not too concerned about getting beat to the highway on-ramp by Billy-bob in a trailer park Camaro. Younger (mid aged) Type Triple A personality owners who want to wring every ounce of performance out of their cars are embracing the excellent PDK and can mitigate the few faults.
I must admit I do like driving with the old codgers sometimes as they click the gears up and down. They never exceed the RPM of the meaty midrange of the torque band, but still give me an exhilarating ride.
I must admit I do like driving with the old codgers sometimes as they click the gears up and down. They never exceed the RPM of the meaty midrange of the torque band, but still give me an exhilarating ride.
10-09-2016, 06:04 PM
#41
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by jennifer911
Amongst Porsche 911 ownerÂ’s, manual transmissions are typically favoured by the older drivers. These folk are not too concerned about getting beat to the highway on-ramp by Billy-bob in a trailer park Camaro. Younger (mid aged) Type Triple A personality owners who want to wring every ounce of performance out of their cars are embracing the excellent PDK and can mitigate the few faults.
I must admit I do like driving with the old codgers sometimes as they click the gears up and down. They never exceed the RPM of the meaty midrange of the torque band, but still give me an exhilarating ride.
I must admit I do like driving with the old codgers sometimes as they click the gears up and down. They never exceed the RPM of the meaty midrange of the torque band, but still give me an exhilarating ride.
10-09-2016, 06:58 PM
#42
Amongst Porsche 911 owner’s, manual transmissions are typically favoured by the older drivers. These folk are not too concerned about getting beat to the highway on-ramp by Billy-bob in a trailer park Camaro. Younger (mid aged) Type Triple A personality owners who want to wring every ounce of performance out of their cars are embracing the excellent PDK and can mitigate the few faults.
I must admit I do like driving with the old codgers sometimes as they click the gears up and down. They never exceed the RPM of the meaty midrange of the torque band, but still give me an exhilarating ride.
I must admit I do like driving with the old codgers sometimes as they click the gears up and down. They never exceed the RPM of the meaty midrange of the torque band, but still give me an exhilarating ride.
I would only add that older drivers have both the time and the money to indulge their fantasies. Meaning that owning a manual in a sea of automatics provides a certain distinction.
With regard to Billy Bob and his Camero, I actually like the guy. And I hope he's driving a manual. And hope he'll get his kids to love it, too. So, I'd let him have the on ramp.
10-10-2016, 02:02 AM
#45
Instructor
Amongst Porsche 911 owner’s, manual transmissions are typically favoured by the older drivers. These folk are not too concerned about getting beat to the highway on-ramp by Billy-bob in a trailer park Camaro. Younger (mid aged) Type Triple A personality owners who want to wring every ounce of performance out of their cars are embracing the excellent PDK and can mitigate the few faults.
I must admit I do like driving with the old codgers sometimes as they click the gears up and down. They never exceed the RPM of the meaty midrange of the torque band, but still give me an exhilarating ride.
I must admit I do like driving with the old codgers sometimes as they click the gears up and down. They never exceed the RPM of the meaty midrange of the torque band, but still give me an exhilarating ride.
Wins the internet tonight.
