AutoCrossed the 991.2 Today
05-06-2016, 08:22 AM
#17
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Chicagoland Area
Posts: 26,142
Likes: 0
Received 5,388 Likes
on
2,509 Posts
05-06-2016, 08:49 AM
#18
Rennlist Member
It's the Sports Response Button, new to the 911.2 with Sport Chrono Package. From the Porsche web site: "The third function – SPORT Response – is brand new to the 911. Pressing the button in the centre of the mode switch primes the engine and transmission for the fastest possible unleashing of power. In other words, maximum responsiveness – for a period of approximately 20 seconds. A timer graphic in the instrument cluster tells you how long is left."
Not much detail here but it looks like it adjusts throttle mapping, suspension and boost from other articles I have read.
05-06-2016, 09:17 AM
#19
It's the Sports Response Button, new to the 911.2 with Sport Chrono Package. From the Porsche web site: "The third function – SPORT Response – is brand new to the 911. Pressing the button in the centre of the mode switch primes the engine and transmission for the fastest possible unleashing of power. In other words, maximum responsiveness – for a period of approximately 20 seconds. A timer graphic in the instrument cluster tells you how long is left."
Not much detail here but it looks like it adjusts throttle mapping, suspension and boost from other articles I have read.
Not much detail here but it looks like it adjusts throttle mapping, suspension and boost from other articles I have read.
05-06-2016, 09:23 AM
#20
4th Gear
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
tuning for some extra power and bolting on every go fast part I could find was all well and good when I had an Evo or a Focus ST, but now that I'm driving the dream, I'm not going to try to improve a masterpiece. If I really think I'm maximizing my C2S at the track I'll trade it in for a GT3.
05-06-2016, 10:00 AM
#21
Banned
Well, Not exactly. Official time for the GT4 was 7:42 not 7:40. Plus the advantage it has in the form of rubber. Add that same rubber to the 991 and the difference will be much greater.
05-06-2016, 10:30 AM
#22
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
I'm sorry I don't know of any. Prestige is going to have a Launch Party in June but I think this is just a "come look at the cars in the showroom party."
05-06-2016, 10:47 AM
#23
I am convinced that the ratio of the number of Base to S sold is going to go way up.
Many reviews are stating that the Base is the better car. $14k for not much more capability for the S model with the same displacement engine just doesn't seem worth it.
Those who do get the S are going to be giving Porsche a huge profit margin on those cars.
Many reviews are stating that the Base is the better car. $14k for not much more capability for the S model with the same displacement engine just doesn't seem worth it.
Those who do get the S are going to be giving Porsche a huge profit margin on those cars.
Don't forget that PTV and 4-wheel steering are not available on the base.
For the folks that say: just buy a GT3; I very well may someday find myself in a GT3/GT4, but it's just not a suitable car for how much I get to the track today. I need a DD that can pull some light track duty. Plus the whole process for getting a GT-car allocation and matching it to PTS is entirely distasteful to me.
05-06-2016, 10:48 AM
#24
I always thought that I was missing something. I could never understand how tuning was so easy and that so much extra power could be milked out of an engine that Porsche had nearly unlimited resources to optimize. I'm glad someone who appears to know more than me made this statement.
05-06-2016, 11:27 AM
#25
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by zirrah
But that's just it, they don't completely optimize it. They have a model lineup to think about, so they fit the HP/torque figures in line with what the higher models up will have (GTS, GT3, Turbo, etc). That's where tuners come in, they don't have such restraints to worry about.
05-06-2016, 11:27 AM
#26
It's the Sports Response Button, new to the 911.2 with Sport Chrono Package. From the Porsche web site: "The third function – SPORT Response – is brand new to the 911. Pressing the button in the centre of the mode switch primes the engine and transmission for the fastest possible unleashing of power. In other words, maximum responsiveness – for a period of approximately 20 seconds. A timer graphic in the instrument cluster tells you how long is left."
Not much detail here but it looks like it adjusts throttle mapping, suspension and boost from other articles I have read.
Not much detail here but it looks like it adjusts throttle mapping, suspension and boost from other articles I have read.
05-06-2016, 11:37 AM
#27
Fair enough, but I don't completely agree. If the base and S had the exact same hardware and only differed electronically, that would be true. But they don't. Different size turbochargers. I would argue that they optimized the base engine, then they optimized the S engine given the differing hardware. Let's assume that they aimed for 370 and 420 hp for slotting purposes. If they could have gotten there comfortably using let's say, a 2.8 liter turbocharged engine, it would have given them the power they needed and even better fuel economy. But they didn't. After zillions of hours of testing and zillions of dollars in R&D, they felt that the 3L engine at that level of tune was the optimal combination of power, fuel consumption, reliability, drivability and cost. I'm going to trust their judgement.
05-06-2016, 11:49 AM
#28
05-06-2016, 04:14 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
I think at least a fair number of 991/911 guys use their cars at least to some degree on the track. Perhaps, like me, they do not have a dedicated track car, so needs must carry the day. Before my PDK GTS2 coupe I had a '12 Cayman R 6MT. Within the limits of my very limited abilities, it was simply an outrageous tool to drive anywhere, but particularly on a track. I still also have a "too nice" fairly low mileage '96 993 C2 6MT coupe which I actually drive a lot and fairly hard (my damn estate can worry about it having too many miles, I live to drive. period.).
The reasons I went from the 987 Cayman to the 991 911 are many, but three significant factors are:
1. I just can't help it, the number 911 sends chills down my spine if I even see that number on some bank's outdoor clock. It was hard-wired into my brain from about 1967 when I was stuck with a POS '59 A-H 100/6- chicken wire instead of a grill, staples holding the top together, had to hold at least one hand over my b*lls every time I drove through a cold puddle, Lucas non-electrics, you get the idea.
2. While the Cayman had two storage areas, which was nice, you can get a lot more stuffed behind the front seats in a 911, including two small people if necessary. And, though I'm not that tall at 5'11" I did feel space-constricted by the mid-rear engine location. The driver's seat tilts and slides back only so far. Also, right-side rear visibility was challenging for me in certain situations, despite mirror adjustments.
3. However, for me, the most important reason for the change to the 991 GTS was making the decision to go from the MT to PDK, which of course I could have done with a new 981 Cayman. I don't know about the brakes in the 981 Caymans, but there was a very real issue with the 987. As far as I know, Porsche never admitted to any brake issues with any 987 model. Yet I know I'm not alone in feeling that there was in fact a very serious problem, which I primarily noticed only under extreme braking for corners at tracks. For instance, as an example, the back straight at Watkins Glen is reasonably long, in spite of being shortened by the "bus-stop" chicane. Driving the 987 Cayman R there, if I was able to have a good run up-hill through the so-called "esses" leading to the back straight, the car would easily hit the rev-limiter in 4th gear, well before it was time to brake for the chicane (and bear in mind at this point, if I were a better driver the need to shift to 5th gear would have happened even earlier on the back straight). Being a natural case of needing to shift up to 5th gear to gain some speed, before having to brake hard to enter the chicane, two things happen very, very quickly. I need to heal/toe shift from 5th gear to 3rd gear while braking extremely hard to shed speed to be able to get a clean transition (or for that matter, any transition other than sideways) through the chicane. I think I'm quite comfortable with heal/toe shifting after so many years of always doing it in road cars anyway, so that should not be difficult. With the throttle/brake set-up in the 987, heel/toe downshifting was very easy (unlike, say, the stock set-up in my 993), particularly with the Rennline pedal and extension. Even with the 5th to 3rd gear downshift not being the easiest, at least 3rd is in the natural spring-loaded 3-4 location. Yet, what happened every single time I would get on the brakes to shed speed for the chicane transition the brake pedal would go down much closer to full pedal travel than normal. This extreme pedal travel took the brake pedal well beyond the parallel plane with the throttle, causing two immediate problems. The first few times this happened it really scared me- I thought I'd lost the brakes and would have to drive straight through on the remaining closed-off part of the original straight. But, in spite of this increased travel, the brakes did finally function great, just lower in the pedal travel. After a few laps I realized the brakes actually worked very well, but my natural style of heel/toe involves throttle with outside of right foot and rolling the ball of the right foot onto the brake pedal. Having right leg/ankle mobility limitations from old wounds, I had difficulty with the needed angles and contortions to get this done quickly. Remember, when this whole process begins I'm traveling at least 140 mph heading into a 55-60 mph chicane. Remember also, that I'm okay as a driver, but nothing to write home about! So, every time I have to brake from a high speed, especially from 5th to 3rd gear, in my mind I'm anticipating difficulty rolling my foot onto the brake pedal because it goes down too far. There is a solution to this, but it means I have to tap the brake pedal ahead of time, which can both unsettle the car, as well as drive anyone right behind me nuts, trying to figure out what I'm doing so that they don't run up my back end. I would also get a momentary hitch in my mental flow/process, when the thought of a braking problem arose, just when I need to focus not only on slowing down, but also slotting the car correctly into 3rd gear. Whoops, there are now two nearly simultaneous flashes to my ancient brain: get the brake pedal securely engaged, and for Chri*ts sake don't miss the shift into 3rd or bye, bye very expensive 3.4L Porsche motor. As you can see, I'm not Senna or Clark, or even a club racer. I'm a 70 year old cantankerous slow-brained old guy whose body was totally trashed by the time it was twenty-six years old. As much as I love MT cars, and I do adore shifting for myself, after the experience with the Cayman R I decided the next Porsche that would have any track use would have to be PDK. And, it has absolutely nothing to do with lap times, faster shifts, etc. Really, it is about having fewer things to think and worry about. I could care less about my lap times; I am just out there for the total Adrenalin thrills of giving the car all the "stick" I dare. (My experience is that PCA DE events are run really well and very safely; drivers pay rapt attention to the other cars around them, especially the ones filling both the front and rear glass; the cars are all going in the same direction trying to stay on the best racing line, and most of all, passing is by permission in limited areas for the lower run groups, and guys/gals have been unfailingly polite. Nobody wants to hit anybody else; I have never seen a lapse in attention.
4. Oh yes, I remember now, there was one really uppity driver at a Watkins Glen PCA DE event. I was beginning to feel that I was improving little by little, in spite of my braking/shifting issues, getting into something resembling a smooth flow, when suddenly there was a car I had not noticed, completely filling my rear view mirror. I had just passed a couple other slower cars, which tends to feel good, even though they just let me do it, when out of nowhere some guy is right up my a** pushing hard. It was a GD old type Honda Civic. A Civic! WTF. I'm driving a '12 Porsche Cayman R and this little pecker is acting very cheeky. And, thinking that maybe I had slacked off a bit, I got on the gas a little more aggressively. The little bugger was still right there with me, so at the first passing area I waved him by. Off he went! At the end of the session I just had to know what that little car had for upgrades, so I went looking. I finally found it near the end of the garage, and the guy showed me everything. Very impressive, very light, running race rubber. But he had not been driving. It was his gorgeous, very young wife who blew by me. It is a very good thing that I leave my ego at home when I go to try to drive at the track.
While my 991 is not my daily driver (right now that's a '91 BMW E30 325i sedan with some fantastic mods, but that looks very much the POS) I believe many of you guys, and girls, could safely have some serious fun occasionally taking in DE's. While there are certainly places on open public roads where it is possible to go faster than you can on most actual tracks, it's a lot safer to find out how well these cars handle in a closed environment.
All of the above is just my thinking and opinions. Please feel free to add, subtract, or plain disagree. As long as nobody shoots at me, I consider every day a really good one, and just keep driving.
One last thing: My former wife, God Bless Her, thought that my love of cars and driving was rather juvenile, and that someday I would have to actually grow up. Well, as somebody has already said amd done, I've been scouring calendars for quite a while now, and I cannot seem to find "Someday" on any of them. Works for me so far.
The reasons I went from the 987 Cayman to the 991 911 are many, but three significant factors are:
1. I just can't help it, the number 911 sends chills down my spine if I even see that number on some bank's outdoor clock. It was hard-wired into my brain from about 1967 when I was stuck with a POS '59 A-H 100/6- chicken wire instead of a grill, staples holding the top together, had to hold at least one hand over my b*lls every time I drove through a cold puddle, Lucas non-electrics, you get the idea.
2. While the Cayman had two storage areas, which was nice, you can get a lot more stuffed behind the front seats in a 911, including two small people if necessary. And, though I'm not that tall at 5'11" I did feel space-constricted by the mid-rear engine location. The driver's seat tilts and slides back only so far. Also, right-side rear visibility was challenging for me in certain situations, despite mirror adjustments.
3. However, for me, the most important reason for the change to the 991 GTS was making the decision to go from the MT to PDK, which of course I could have done with a new 981 Cayman. I don't know about the brakes in the 981 Caymans, but there was a very real issue with the 987. As far as I know, Porsche never admitted to any brake issues with any 987 model. Yet I know I'm not alone in feeling that there was in fact a very serious problem, which I primarily noticed only under extreme braking for corners at tracks. For instance, as an example, the back straight at Watkins Glen is reasonably long, in spite of being shortened by the "bus-stop" chicane. Driving the 987 Cayman R there, if I was able to have a good run up-hill through the so-called "esses" leading to the back straight, the car would easily hit the rev-limiter in 4th gear, well before it was time to brake for the chicane (and bear in mind at this point, if I were a better driver the need to shift to 5th gear would have happened even earlier on the back straight). Being a natural case of needing to shift up to 5th gear to gain some speed, before having to brake hard to enter the chicane, two things happen very, very quickly. I need to heal/toe shift from 5th gear to 3rd gear while braking extremely hard to shed speed to be able to get a clean transition (or for that matter, any transition other than sideways) through the chicane. I think I'm quite comfortable with heal/toe shifting after so many years of always doing it in road cars anyway, so that should not be difficult. With the throttle/brake set-up in the 987, heel/toe downshifting was very easy (unlike, say, the stock set-up in my 993), particularly with the Rennline pedal and extension. Even with the 5th to 3rd gear downshift not being the easiest, at least 3rd is in the natural spring-loaded 3-4 location. Yet, what happened every single time I would get on the brakes to shed speed for the chicane transition the brake pedal would go down much closer to full pedal travel than normal. This extreme pedal travel took the brake pedal well beyond the parallel plane with the throttle, causing two immediate problems. The first few times this happened it really scared me- I thought I'd lost the brakes and would have to drive straight through on the remaining closed-off part of the original straight. But, in spite of this increased travel, the brakes did finally function great, just lower in the pedal travel. After a few laps I realized the brakes actually worked very well, but my natural style of heel/toe involves throttle with outside of right foot and rolling the ball of the right foot onto the brake pedal. Having right leg/ankle mobility limitations from old wounds, I had difficulty with the needed angles and contortions to get this done quickly. Remember, when this whole process begins I'm traveling at least 140 mph heading into a 55-60 mph chicane. Remember also, that I'm okay as a driver, but nothing to write home about! So, every time I have to brake from a high speed, especially from 5th to 3rd gear, in my mind I'm anticipating difficulty rolling my foot onto the brake pedal because it goes down too far. There is a solution to this, but it means I have to tap the brake pedal ahead of time, which can both unsettle the car, as well as drive anyone right behind me nuts, trying to figure out what I'm doing so that they don't run up my back end. I would also get a momentary hitch in my mental flow/process, when the thought of a braking problem arose, just when I need to focus not only on slowing down, but also slotting the car correctly into 3rd gear. Whoops, there are now two nearly simultaneous flashes to my ancient brain: get the brake pedal securely engaged, and for Chri*ts sake don't miss the shift into 3rd or bye, bye very expensive 3.4L Porsche motor. As you can see, I'm not Senna or Clark, or even a club racer. I'm a 70 year old cantankerous slow-brained old guy whose body was totally trashed by the time it was twenty-six years old. As much as I love MT cars, and I do adore shifting for myself, after the experience with the Cayman R I decided the next Porsche that would have any track use would have to be PDK. And, it has absolutely nothing to do with lap times, faster shifts, etc. Really, it is about having fewer things to think and worry about. I could care less about my lap times; I am just out there for the total Adrenalin thrills of giving the car all the "stick" I dare. (My experience is that PCA DE events are run really well and very safely; drivers pay rapt attention to the other cars around them, especially the ones filling both the front and rear glass; the cars are all going in the same direction trying to stay on the best racing line, and most of all, passing is by permission in limited areas for the lower run groups, and guys/gals have been unfailingly polite. Nobody wants to hit anybody else; I have never seen a lapse in attention.
4. Oh yes, I remember now, there was one really uppity driver at a Watkins Glen PCA DE event. I was beginning to feel that I was improving little by little, in spite of my braking/shifting issues, getting into something resembling a smooth flow, when suddenly there was a car I had not noticed, completely filling my rear view mirror. I had just passed a couple other slower cars, which tends to feel good, even though they just let me do it, when out of nowhere some guy is right up my a** pushing hard. It was a GD old type Honda Civic. A Civic! WTF. I'm driving a '12 Porsche Cayman R and this little pecker is acting very cheeky. And, thinking that maybe I had slacked off a bit, I got on the gas a little more aggressively. The little bugger was still right there with me, so at the first passing area I waved him by. Off he went! At the end of the session I just had to know what that little car had for upgrades, so I went looking. I finally found it near the end of the garage, and the guy showed me everything. Very impressive, very light, running race rubber. But he had not been driving. It was his gorgeous, very young wife who blew by me. It is a very good thing that I leave my ego at home when I go to try to drive at the track.
While my 991 is not my daily driver (right now that's a '91 BMW E30 325i sedan with some fantastic mods, but that looks very much the POS) I believe many of you guys, and girls, could safely have some serious fun occasionally taking in DE's. While there are certainly places on open public roads where it is possible to go faster than you can on most actual tracks, it's a lot safer to find out how well these cars handle in a closed environment.
All of the above is just my thinking and opinions. Please feel free to add, subtract, or plain disagree. As long as nobody shoots at me, I consider every day a really good one, and just keep driving.
One last thing: My former wife, God Bless Her, thought that my love of cars and driving was rather juvenile, and that someday I would have to actually grow up. Well, as somebody has already said amd done, I've been scouring calendars for quite a while now, and I cannot seem to find "Someday" on any of them. Works for me so far.
05-07-2016, 01:19 AM
#30
Rennlist Member
