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Help with Euro Delivery plans - Italy, not track focused!

 
Old 04-24-2016, 11:40 AM
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Dalema
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Default Help with Euro Delivery plans - Italy, not track focused!

Hi all - cross posting this from the ED forum as I know a lot of you 991ers have done European a Delivery. https://rennlist.com/forums/european...k-focused.html

I'm soon to embark on ED to Zuffenhausen to pick up my Spyder - super excited!

I really need some help with planning the driving route and where to stay. My wife is coming with me, so this will unfortunately not be a track focused trip - rather an Italian focused trip.

I would love to get input / feedback on:
- Places to stay at our main stopping points: Lake Como, around Stelvio Pass, Tuscany, Parma and maybe Innsbruck
- Roads / passes to drive along our general way
- Have we bitten off too much in the time we have?

Here's what the trip currently looks like: [EDIT: see NEW route in post below]

Day 1 – Leave US to FRA
Day 2 – Arrive FRA, train to Stuttgart
Day 3 – Zuffenhausen pick up 8:30am; tour and lunch
Day 4 – Stuttgart to Stelvio Pass – 5 hr drive
• Where should we stay?
Day 5 – Stelvio Pass to Lake Como – 3 hr drive
• Where should we stay?
Day 6 – Lake Como
Day 7 – Lake Como to Borgo Argenina (Tuscany) – 5 hr drive
Day 8 - Borgo Argenina (Tuscany)
Day 9 - Borgo Argenina (Tuscany)
Day 10 - Borgo Argenina to Parma – 3 hr drive
• Where should we stay - any cool little towns with good food around Parma?
Day 11 – Parma
Day 12 – Parma to Innsbruck – 3 hr drive
• Where should we stay?
• Where might be a better alternative to Innsbruck as a stopping point on the way back to Stuttgart?
Day 13 – Innsbruck to Stuttgart – 3.5 hr drive; drop off car at ZF by 5pm; train to FRA
Day 14 – Leave FRA to US

https://goo.gl/maps/fCnDf2goQv72

Last edited by Dalema; 04-25-2016 at 12:02 AM.
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Old 04-24-2016, 12:24 PM
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I recommend booking 1st on the ICE from FRA to Stuttgart, its well worth the
extra cost, and you can book it online ... the station is literally "steps" away
from the baggage claim (10-15 min walk) and of course at the other end
the two Porsche hotels are literally just across the street from the Hauptbahnhof

As for Como, think about catching the car ferry to Belaggio from Menaggio and
stay at the Grand Hotel Villa Serballoni ... I could recommend a couple of
other hotels if you dont want to go to Bellaggio... but honestly its a unique
little town and a great hotel!

(Grand Hotel Tremezzo or Villa D'este)

I'd also recommend stopping in Portofino and stay at the belmond Splendido (or mare in the town itself)

p.s
no mention of museum tour?
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Old 04-24-2016, 12:37 PM
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Be aware of the gypsies in Italy. ****** purses while you're stopped in traffic .... fake car accidents.... keep an eye on your car when you stop to eat, etc. A good friend of mine experienced all this on his last trip to Italy.
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Old 04-24-2016, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by n2cars View Post
Be aware of the gypsies in Italy. ****** purses while you're stopped in traffic .... fake car accidents.... keep an eye on your car when you stop to eat, etc. A good friend of mine experienced all this on his last trip to Italy.
didnt someone report that they had their headlights stolen from their car???
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Old 04-24-2016, 05:00 PM
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I took my RS back in 08 to Tuscany and back through Switzerland and then up to NR.
If you are coming back from Parma instead of Innsbruck you could go to Buchen - 20 mins west from Innsbruck - to the interalpen hotel - on top of the mountain. Gorgeous place, built by Liebherr.
If you want to be closer to Stuttgart you could go further to Garmisch which is just over Austrian/German border.
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Old 04-24-2016, 05:42 PM
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I have a couple thoughts about your route. I did a ED in 2013 and I planning another next year.


Stelvio pass: I did it and it was awesome....but it is a huge tourist trap. Seriously. You need to hit it as early as possible before all the campers get on the road and block you. When I got there, it was closed for a bike race. I waited and was the third in line to get on it and had a blast. See my video here:


Fussen: I see you are going past Fussen. Why not stop at Neuschwanstein? Its right along the way.





Check out my ED video here of a Boxster S 981.


Furka pass:
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Old 04-24-2016, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by n2cars View Post
Be aware of the gypsies in Italy. ****** purses while you're stopped in traffic .... fake car accidents.... keep an eye on your car when you stop to eat, etc. A good friend of mine experienced all this on his last trip to Italy.
Yes, be careful where you go and where you park. A friend of mine disturbed a couple of guys trying to steal his headlights. He thought they were ok, until one fell out the first time he stopped at the next set pf traffic lights.

Although looking at your itinerary, Lake Como and where you are staying in Tuscany should be fine. Just be careful where you park in Firenze and Sienna if you visit there. I can recommend the large underground secure car park at the Firenze train station. Have parked there a number of times with no problem. Can't comment on Parma though.
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Old 04-24-2016, 06:19 PM
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I think the Stelvio pass is overrated. Its just one hair pin after another so its incredibly repetitive and, ever since Top Gear knighted it as the best driving road in Europe, it is always incredibly busy with cars and bike.

My strong preference is the Gotthard pass. It's faster, wider with just as spectacular scenery. Most bypass the road and take the tunnel so its generally quieter.

Although, if you are going in July or August, every road, everywhere will probably be busy. If you can, especially avoid driving on both the last Saturday of July and the first Saturday of August as these are designated as Black Saturdays...the worst traffic days in Europe as these weekends co-incide with the holiday period. The problem is mainly in France, but the French hit the roads in Switzerland and Italy too.

Last edited by Chris3963; 04-24-2016 at 07:40 PM.
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Old 04-24-2016, 07:01 PM
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Thanks everyone for the great input - please keep it coming!! I'm checking out all the suggestions as we speak.

Juniordrums just pointed out to me that Stelvio isn't open until June. We're going to be there end of May so may need some work arounds.

Advice of what to see along the way is also appreciated.

Last edited by Dalema; 04-24-2016 at 08:21 PM.
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Old 04-24-2016, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Larry Cable View Post
I recommend booking 1st on the ICE from FRA to Stuttgart, its well worth the
extra cost, and you can book it online ... the station is literally "steps" away
from the baggage claim (10-15 min walk) and of course at the other end
the two Porsche hotels are literally just across the street from the Hauptbahnhof

As for Como, think about catching the car ferry to Belaggio from Menaggio and
stay at the Grand Hotel Villa Serballoni ... I could recommend a couple of
other hotels if you dont want to go to Bellaggio... but honestly its a unique
little town and a great hotel!

(Grand Hotel Tremezzo or Villa D'este)

I'd also recommend stopping in Portofino and stay at the belmond Splendido (or mare in the town itself)

p.s
no mention of museum tour?
Thanks Larry. We plan to take the train - thanks for the tip on booking online. Definitely will do the museum! Thanks for the Como recommendations. Given my procrastination in organizing this and that we are going late May, I think we may be challenged with booking - so any more recommendations would be great.

Originally Posted by n2cars View Post
Be aware of the gypsies in Italy. ****** purses while you're stopped in traffic .... fake car accidents.... keep an eye on your car when you stop to eat, etc. A good friend of mine experienced all this on his last trip to Italy.
Yikes - purse will remain in the t/frunk!

Originally Posted by RR View Post
I took my RS back in 08 to Tuscany and back through Switzerland and then up to NR.
If you are coming back from Parma instead of Innsbruck you could go to Buchen - 20 mins west from Innsbruck - to the interalpen hotel - on top of the mountain. Gorgeous place, built by Liebherr.
If you want to be closer to Stuttgart you could go further to Garmisch which is just over Austrian/German border.
Thanks - wife looked at the Interalpen and likes it.

Originally Posted by subshooter View Post
I have a couple thoughts about your route. I did a ED in 2013 and I planning another next year.


Stelvio pass: I did it and it was awesome....but it is a huge tourist trap. Seriously.

Fussen: I see you are going past Fussen. Why not stop at Neuschwanstein? Its right along the way.

Furka pass:
Thanks. Those videos are awesome - super excited now!

Will definitely add Neuschwanstein - my wife is a total Disney fan The trip right now is more of an outline - so please send your recommendations of things to see along the way - very helpful.

Originally Posted by Chris3963 View Post
My strong preference is the Gotthard pass. It's faster, wider with just as spectacular scenery. Most bypass the road and take the tunnel so its generally quieter.
Thanks - Gotthard looks like it opens May 20th, so may be the way to go for us - given we will be there late May. With some of the passes being closed it will be another wrench in the works to figure out.
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Old 04-24-2016, 11:51 PM
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Hi all. So some amendments to the trip based on feedback so far - keep it coming.

We will head south via the Gotthard Pass, take a day less in Como and add a stop in Cinque Terra.

Question 1: On our first day of driving, should we stop somewhere around the Gotthard Pass or just push on down to Como in 1 day. If we do the latter, we can get back the day in Como - I'm just a bit concerned it's too far in one day.

Question 2: Does anyone here work at Google and know how fast Google Maps assumes you drive on the Autobahn - hahaha ?

Latest route: https://goo.gl/maps/rDvMUwjvneF2

Day 1 – Leave US to FRA
Day 2 – Arrive FRA, train to Stuttgart
Day 3 – Zuffenhausen pick up 8:30am; tour, lunch and museum
Day 4 – Stuttgart to Grindewald – 4 hr drive
• Where should we stay?
Day 5 – Oberalp Pass / Gotthard Pass to Lugano / Lake Como – 2 hr drive
• Now deciding where to stay.
Day 6 – Lugano / Lake Como to Monterosso al Mare – 4 hr
Day 7 – Monterosso al Mare to Borgo Argenina (Tuscany) – 3.5 hr drive
Day 8 - Borgo Argenina (Tuscany)
Day 9 - Borgo Argenina (Tuscany)
Day 10 - Borgo Argenina to Parma – 3 hr drive
• Where should we stay?
Day 11 – Parma
Day 12 – Parma to Interalpen-Hotel Tyrol – 4.5 hr drive
Day 13 – Interlapen to Stuttgart – 4 hr drive; drop off car at ZF by 5pm; train to FRA
• Via Neuschwanstein Castle
Day 14 – Leave FRA to US

Last edited by Dalema; 04-27-2016 at 07:33 PM.
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Old 04-25-2016, 04:35 AM
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Nice itinerary. A few thoughts based on my ED three years ago:

Give yourself time to visit the mercedes museum in Stuttgart. Even more fun, interesting than the porsche museum

When are you going? The Swiss mountain passes can be closed through late may and early June. They may be open one day and closed the next . Be prepared to call an audible if the passes you are driving are closed

I usually booked hotels a day in advance or even same day to give myself a chance to spend more or less time in a given city...I also booked a few hotels in advance for those cities I knew I would camp out for w few days.

Allow yourself the opportunity to get off the main highways and explore the smaller roads -- especially in the Dolomites. I found them to be more entertaining than most highways.

Lake Como is terrifying to drive around -- I parked the car in Como and took buses and ferries across the water.

You will be passing the Ferrari and Lamborghini factories -- try to visit both. Great fun -- even if just looking through the fence to watch cars on the test track. Damn, those engine really scream.

My experience through stelvio was awesome -- I echo sentiments of others that other mountain passes are "better" but if it's on your list don't think twice and just go! You'll grin from ear to ear driving the switchbacks and meeting others along the way that went just because of top gear. time your driving for early morning or late afternoon to avoid biggest crowds

Innsbrook was one of my favorite cities. Great yoga studios. Terrific restaurants. Check out the bergisol ski jump and walk the old town.

Plan your itinerary as you are currently doing, then stay flexible and be prepared to change along the way as you take in the experience.

One restaurant suggestion for Florence: la giostra. Have been a half dozen times in last 15 years. Friends have gone may more times. Easily my personal favorite.

Please take and share a lot of pictures for the rest of us :-) if you want to see pix and notes from my trip, search this forum and/or check out alanjcook.wordpress.com. Look specifically at may 2013 and June 2013. Happy to share suggestions for any place I visited along the way.

Most important: Enjoy! You are gonna have a great time.

Alan
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Old 04-25-2016, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Dalema View Post

Question 2: Does anyone here work at Google and know how fast Google Maps assumes you drive on the Autobahn - hahaha ?

I don't work at google but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.... LOL


Seriously, just put in two points on google maps along the autobahn. Divide the km by the estimated time....and bing....you have the assumed speed from google.
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Old 04-25-2016, 08:24 AM
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Here are some thoughts for Day 4-5:

- Stuttgart to Bern/Interlaken/Grindewald (Romantik Hotel Schweizerhof) - take train up to Jungfraujoch
- Interlaken to Lugano/Como: Take SustenStrasse (11) over to Andermatt to the Oberalp Pass to town of Disentis then south on Lukmanier Pass to the E35 to Lugano to the SS340 Menaggio. Ferry to Bellagio or drive to Como.

The Gotthard pass is nice, but the Oberalp/Lukmanier pass is nicer. I much prefer Lugano over Como and it will be safer for your car. Day trip it to Como. Like Larry states, if you're want to stay in the Como area, choose Bellagio - much nicer than Como.

Last edited by p987yow; 04-25-2016 at 08:56 PM.
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Old 04-25-2016, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Dalema View Post
Hi all. So some amendments to the trip based on feedback so far - keep it coming.

We will head south via the Gotthard Pass, take a day less in Como and add a stop in Cinque Terra.

Question 1: On our first day of driving, should we stop somewhere around the Gotthard Pass or just push on down to Como in 1 day. If we do the latter, we can get back the day in Como - I'm just a bit concerned it's too far in one day.

Question 2: Does anyone here work at Google and know how fast Google Maps assumes you drive on the Autobahn - hahaha ?

Latest route: https://goo.gl/maps/3wL1ZXojKu52

Day 1 – Leave US to FRA
Day 2 – Arrive FRA, train to Stuttgart
Day 3 – Zuffenhausen pick up 8:30am; tour, lunch and museum
Day 4 – Stuttgart to Gotthard Pass – 4 hr drive
• Where should we stay?
Day 5 – Gotthard Pass to Lake Como – 2 hr drive
• Now deciding where to stay.
Day 6 – Lake Como to Monterosso al Mare – 4 hr
Day 7 – Monterosso al Mare to Borgo Argenina (Tuscany) – 3.5 hr drive
Day 8 - Borgo Argenina (Tuscany)
Day 9 - Borgo Argenina (Tuscany)
Day 10 - Borgo Argenina to Parma – 3 hr drive
• Where should we stay?
Day 11 – Parma
Day 12 – Parma to Interalpen-Hotel Tyrol – 4.5 hr drive
Day 13 – Interlapen to Stuttgart – 4 hr drive; drop off car at ZF by 5pm; train to FRA
• Via Neuschwanstein Castle
Day 14 – Leave FRA to US
personally I think trying Stuttgart to Como in one day is too much, it wont be as much fun, and you will be tired of sitting in the car after 6 hours... also
do not forget to factor in the fact that once you leave an autobahn/strada
you will be on much slower and busier roads ...
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