casaforte9

Spasm is not available in cab

I would like to drive a car with pdcc, I only sat in one and around corners it did not lean much

jimbo1111

I though PDCC was an option that offered decoupling of the swaybars in order to give more of a compliant ride when driving normally. I don't believe it would outperform a spasm suspension. It might be on par with the spasm swaybars if ordered with spasm as well though. I always thought of it as a luxury item personally.

Archimedes

That's not correct. The softer sway bar benefit is an ancillary, nice to have minor thing. The primary purpose of PDCC is to eliminate body roll. A PDCC Carrera S has 1% body roll, the lowest amount of body roll of any production car save for a couple supercars. The car corners like its on rails; dead flat. It's a bit disconcerting at first, then awesome once you get used to it. Coupled with the loads of grip these cars have, it makes driving the mountain roads a real treat.

Archimedes

And you'd lose your money, at least if by average 911 driver you're focused on enthusiasts and not housewives driving them to the country club. Again, have you spent much time in different variants of the 991 Carrera? Either you haven't of you have no feel for the car. Anyone who can't tell the difference between a base suspension, PASM and SPASM car really should just buy a Lexus. They ride noticeably different.

And PDCC rides so differently from a SPASM only car, again, if you can't tell it you're not paying attention. It's almost shockingly different the first time you take a corner quickly. Honestly, you'll even notice it in the parking lot as PDCC will often crab strangely in slow tight turns.

PTV is also noticeable if you drive two cars back to back, especially on the street, though honestly I noticed it more in RS5 than I do on my Porsches because the Porsches already corner so much better.

While I may not spec PDCC again, SPASM and PTV would be absolute musts on any Carrera I ordered.

jimbo1111

Good to know. I've never driven a PDCC car in a performance type setting so I didn't know how it was intended to perform. This may be a silly question but why do they offer spasm in conjunction with PDCC? I'm bringing this up because an spasm equipt car with out PDCC also has upgraded swaybars. I may be answering my own question but wouldn't that mean that the PDCC cars spasm is only a spring upgrade.

Penn4S

I have PASM and PDCC on my 4S. I do appreciate the PDCC very much. I don't find it odd at all. I like the car flat and stable in the turns. I also disagree that it is not noticeable in daily driving. My drive in the am is through horse country winding twisty beautiful roads. When I'm out early I can take he car "briskly" through those roads and it is noticeable how planted the car feels. I've had 12 other Pcars so I know what to compare it to. I would get it again.

I would love to drive a car with rear wheel steering to see if I really like it and how much it might improve handling. If getting an S doesn't break the bank for you I would say get it.

casaforte9

Thanks Penn 4s for your reply

My heart say S for the added torque, and with only S , one can spec pdcc and rws

worf928

Which is why I responded with observations pertinent to daily-driving.

You gonna ride this all the way to the ground?

PDCC consists of hydraulic sway bar links, computer programming, and associated bits to move the hydraulic fluid. It uses one of the stock sway bars.

There is a nice overview article on PDCC in the 991 technical information sticky thread.. It is, essentially, an active suspension.

The Purpose of PDCC is to reduce body roll to a minimum without resulting in a bone crushing ride. The result is better grip on all road surfaces, more-even tire wear, and the best of both worlds handling.

In a mildy-inaccurate nutshell: On crappy streets in a straight line the ride is just a bit softer than the normal suspension while on smooth twisties it is firmer that SPASM.

jimbo1111

Thank you for the resources. Here is there description of operation.

Operating principle
The variable anti-roll bar system resolves the conflict between the objectives of a minimal tendency to roll in dynamic driving situations (sportiness) and extensive decoupling of the anti-roll bar when driving straight ahead and on occasionally
uneven road surfaces (comfort).

This description still doesn't prove or disprove the possibility of out preforming the standard sway-bar at the limit. It provides a dynamic difference between the two extremes. Allowing for a better ride quality under the same stresses.

worf928

You may need to read further.

Active suspension is banned in Motorsports. Obviously because passive suspensions are better?

I'm going to give up at this point. You've worded your response in such a way that suggests you've made up your mind and that nothing will change it.

jimbo1111

Not true. I'm open to empirical data.

Archimedes

Porsche has a video out there comparing each level of suspension performance from standard to PDCC/SPASM, in terms of cornering and lap times. Each is successively better and faster, with a PDCC/SPASM car turning the fastest lap time, I believe by a full second over the next suspension down, though I can't recall the track length. Note, the blistering 7:38 Ring time a 991 C2S turned was supposedly done in a SPASM/PDCC car.

But again, lap times aren't street driving. On the street I notice PDCC primarily in dead flat cornering and a feeling that the car is glued to the road, from turn in, to mid corner, to exit. The car feels more planted that standard suspended cars I've driven, and the turn in feels more immediate. That's what takes some getting used to. You expect the car to roll slightly and load up as you turn in, but it doesn't, it just stays flat, turns in and goes.

fbroen

I just test drove a base 991.2 with PASM. My first feedback words upon return were -- could use Sport PASM, or PDCC, or both. Very noticeable on public roads. In fact so noticeable that only after mentioning this, did I get to the turbocharged part....

(I have both in my 991.1 S -- and like the tauter ride (or softer, depending on what you're doing), and lower look as bonus courtesy of SPASM. I may or may not spec PDCC again. For sure will spec Sport PASM).

jimbo1111

I was on the fence about ordering PDCC. I decided not to because of its complexity and having the ability to upgrade in the future if better sway-bars become available.

I'm happy to hear that you are enjoying its experience but Im not easily convinced that its actually better in performance. I would like to see some empirical evidence as that becomes available.

I did come across a MT video that I saved a while back. Where the main contributor preferred the standard sway-bars over the PDCC. Have a look at 8:20 if you don't want to view the whole thing. Cheers!

Archimedes

I'm not arguing for or against PDCC. I probably wouldn't spec it again. But there is empirical evidence out there that it offers slightly better performance than a non-PDCC car. Search out Porsche's video comparing all their suspensions and you'll find it. It's linked in one of the older PDCC threads on here.