rxtrom

Hey everyone, so I am a longtime lurker as you can see. I originally registered to get info on a 993 C2 I was going to buy as my first Porsche but never did. I regret that as those prices have only gone up. Fast forward to now and I am really going to buy my first Porsche, a 991.

I know many here just buy what they want without regard for resale or depreciation but I cannot think that way despite probably keeping this car for a long time. I am geared to think of everything as an investment and like to have the option to "get out" without losing my shirt.

From reading other threads on 991 depreciation it seems I am looking at a 20% drop in the first year of ownership and 800-1k per month after that but depending on the upgrades it could depr faster.

I can comfortably afford both cars I just don't know if the GTS which is essentially a highly upgraded 991s will depr faster nor if the powerkit, wide body and black bits are worth the prem over the CPO listed below. The car will be a weekend car but I would like to bring it to a track for a DE event in the future.

I have a deposit on a 2016 GTS for 8.5% off the MSRP of 133
PDK
leather interior
Prem plus
18way seats
sport design package
Bose
sunroof in glass

I worked hard on this deal and I think it is a good one. My color and "must haves" without the wait for the build, which i know there are no more allocations for.

Then there is a 2014 S CPO 7k miles 11/2013 build that I saw locally, MRSP 119 asking 90 (I am sure there is room to negotiate.)
White - non metallic - my third choice color
Standard interior
PDK
prem pkg - not plus which I wanted the vent seats and entry and drive
14 way
PSE
Sport Chrono
Bi-xenon with PDLS
Bose
Sport design wheel

Not exactly sure what I am looking for from you guys, just figured I would see what kind of feedback you provide

Can I drive around in the CPO with 25k in my pocket and be happy? Probably, Can I drive the GTS with 25k less in my pocket and be happy? Probably

Thanks in advance and Happy New Year!

beaverlake

If your plan is long term ownership of a depreciating asset then in my opinion get what you really want. That $25K difference will disappear if/when you realize you bought "not quite the right car" and you end up trading/selling your original purchase.

In your example I think the CPO S is significantly overpriced. The GTS will probably depreciate a bit less on an annual % basis over time. Check used GTS listings to get some idea about what's already taken place.

Or wait until you find the right Used/CPO GTS. It might take several months, but then you'd have the right car with the first depreciation hit already taken. I know that we benefited to the tune of 29% off MSRP for a very nicely optioned 13-month old 2014 C4s cab w/4600 miles. That number doesn't include the $800 ceramic window tint, $4,500 escort 9500, and the two remaining prepaid Porsche services (about $1,600 where we live). If I add in all that the depreciation jumps to 32% for what is essentially a new car! Subscribe to STGs Hot For Sale thread!

Good hunting!

Gordon

Mlbraptor

I bought the 911S that I was looking for. I have owned it about 6 months. Just out of curiosity; I asked a dealer what it is worth now. He said about $25K less than I paid. OUCH !!!!

X2Board

If you could be happy with either car, then buy the cheaper one. I decided to get back into the Porsche fold, when I found out about the GT4, just a couple of months ago. Don't ask how it slipped by my radar for so long, that I missed out on ordering one at MSRP.

I refuse to over pay for anything, so I started looking for a 991 GTS, or S. I missed out on a Speed Yellow GTS for 99.9K, that was snatched up by another dealer, and can now be had for 112K.

During my search, I found a '14 S, non CPO car, that I initially passed on because the low price raised red flags, but after the GTS was gone, I decided to check it out, and got myself a hell of a bargain, 12K miles, lots of options, and extended maintenance plan for the next two years. The car is immaculate, in and out, and while it's not a GTS, I will be happy with it for years to come. The 23K I saved, will be invested elsewhere, and with a good return, I'll pick up another toy in the future.

90K is kind of high for a '14, even with CPO. I got my car for 77.5K

drcollie

One of the hardest things to figure out is how much your Porsche is going to be worth down the road. The marque has a collector's following in certain models. So for maximum preservation of value, right now the smart money would be to buy a GT3 or GT3RS in a 991. Those will retain their value the best, by far.

A GTS will generally depreciate less than a Carrera S. But not significantly.

The big thing is "what will the collector's want?" You can buy a 1999 996 unit for not much more than a Toyota, but go back just one year earlier to the 993 and prices have sky-rocketed because its air-cooled. I sold my 1996 C4S 993 for $ 50,000 with just 14K on the clock ten years ago. Now that car would be worth almost double that.

The 991 Question will be (in years to come - grab your crystal ball).

1) Will the Porsche collector pay more for a manual transmission car? Especially if Porsche discontinues making a stick like Ferrari has.

2) Will the naturally aspirated 991's become desirable because they are not turbocharged?

No one knows the answers to those right now. Only time will tell. But for capital retention, the GT3 has the best shot at the least depreciation and likely will for years to come.

NoGaBiker

Also, everybody's answer is going to be different based on their needs, their financial situation, their history, etc. So where do you stop on the sliding scale of "used equals better value than new?"

For instance, the used 991S you're looking at is 20% or more off of the price of a new one. But why stop there? A 997.2 with under 20,000 miles is probably 20% or more off of the used 991S price. But a 997.1 with 20,000 miles is even less. And a 996 with 20,000 (plenty of them still around) is probably $26,000 or less. Hell, a pristine 20,000-mile one-fanatical-enthusiast-owner 986S with all maintenance done and new tires will cost you $20-22,000. 1/4 of the cost of your used 991, and 1/6 the cost of a new GTS. But is it only 1/4 or 1/6 the fun/speed/handling/interior/prestige or whatever? As always, the answer is "of course not." Diminishing returns hits you all the way down the ladder.

Chris C.

No easy choice here IMO, depends on what makes you sleep better.

- CPO car - amazing value (find what you really want though) for 911 performance and peace of mind of not losing $45K in first 3 years
- New GTS - all the car you want, great price (you won't see that 8.5% many places) and the "new" experience.

None of the cars is an investment near term, if it regains value it will likely be in the 10-15 year range and even then only if the car is seen as a classic like the 993.

I was looking at exactly these 2 options myself these last few months as I made my purchase - If I had found exactly the GTS I wanted at that discount I would have jumped on it. Absent that (I didn't find the car I wanted and refused to eat the extra 20K depreciation for those goofy over-specced dealer ordered cars) - I sleep really well now with my lightly used C2s.

NoGaBiker

Let's not forget, you could buy run-of-the-mill '95 993C2s with decent mileage in the thirties all day long and twice on Sundays by the early-2000s. It took a pretty long time for them to even get back to 1995 MSRP, and because of mileage and condition I imagine that most '95 993s still sell for less than MSRP adjusted to 2015 dollars.

titleistaddict87

+1 here. Having just got a '14 S, I can echo what others have posted here. Find the right car like we did at the right price, and that's where the value is today. Big depreciation gone, just enjoy and accept 800-1k/mo as the price to play in a basically brand-new car. Negative here is finding the car you want at the right price. Took me 6 months and I almost gave up several times but finally found what I wanted (and locally at that!) and couldn't be happier.

If you want a car to appreciate and drive for "free" like some people I know, you're going to have to spend a lot more than either of those cars above to get something with limited production. You're also going to have to keep it in pristine condition and keep the miles down for that 10-15 year horizon mentioned above. During that time, the car will be out of warranty, it could have mechanical problems = $$ to fix, and in the end you could still lose. If you want to invest in something, cars are not it IMO. I buy my cars to enjoy and drive and while I have another DD that splits time with my S to keep the miles reasonable on both, I'm not going to not drive the car when I want for the sake of some theoretical appreciation down the road.

rxtrom

All good points thanks for the feedback. I am not really looking for the next 993TT but rather just do not want to end up with a car that I would need a deep discount to resell to keep up with the prices and values in the other models.

Already based on the vehicles most of you all chose, the 991s, it seems to be the more desired and perceived value, perception is everything. That may be skewed of course since the GTS is fairly new and fewer produced.

I also agree that 90k was steep on that CPO, but that is list, I would definitely have to negotiate that down.

Fasttoys1

Buying new even with a 8 to 10% discount you will still have a nice hit in Depreciation after the first year. The only new Porsches retaining values are GT cars. Best time to buy is mid Jan through Feb. Plus with the new 911 models coming out you have a window were many will wait to see how it compares to the NA version. If you are looking for the least depreciation out of your two choices buy a CPO car. Remember offer low you can always move up.

STG

Some good advice here ...

Well .... Like mentioned, these cars are not investments. Even the $$ spent on 993 invested in real estate or the market will have returned much more than even their current bubble!

I think either doing new or used is a personal choice. I don't think negatively for the guys buying new one bit. Something special about building, buying, and taking delivery of a custom spec car. Quite the experience. I can understand the appeal.

I started the "hot for sale" thread on a whim from my personal experience not wanting to spend over $100K on a "fun car". I wanted the $120-130K car for $90K. I guess always looking for a deal. After research, found out that with patience one could find 80-99% of ones "wish list" at a significant savings. Even then though, the car is still depreciating, but has taken the first initial hit. Got my car with 2,500 miles and a CPO at $30K off sticker.

I did look for a year, as many other guys are currently doing. It can be fun and frustrating. There is a sense of satisfaction of making that score though!

So .... No right/wrong answer. Wish I could offer more ...

The whole concept of having a $100K +/- fun car to most would be idiotic. Who am I to talk?? I still love it and am happy. All that matters. Life is too short

c_Gio

You lost me when both options were PDK

fastdiablo

10% of 911s sold are manual, so put no more than 10% weight on comments like this. These are your dad's friends who would vote for a guy like Trump and use rotary phones to call the cops when those "hooligans" down the street are playing their "rock and roll music". If manual was so great these days it would be in the 918 and. GT3 variants. It's not. Because technology has moved on.
Since you place emphasis on the car holding value, the 16 GTS would be the rarer, much more "special" car. Last year of the NA. 8.5% is a steal, assuming it's a color you want. Lastly, just look at the 997 GTS for guidance on pricing. I've seen 997 GTS used selling for higher than 991 c2s examples. To me, that's a very interesting and compelling data point. Also, the X51 motor and sport exhaust are sought after options in the used market today, both of which command a premium and are included at a much reduced cost in the GTS. Good luck with your search.

c_Gio

Funny post. I'm 38 but if your dad knows good scotch, sure we can hang. If MT = Trump.... PDK = Hilary?