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So, by your definition, Lewis Hamilton isn't an enthusiast because his LaFerrari isn't a manual...
I usually try to stay away from OT arguments like hand crank starters or spark advance,but it's too funny you mention Lewis Hamilton : he special ordered what is probably the only Pagani Zonda with a manual transmission.
Dual clutches are being marketed just like luxury car technology as something you mindlessly put in "D" so you can concentrate on the radio or texting. With the automatic you can't go from 2nd to 5th yourself or pick what gear you want to downshift directly too. You're constantly dependent on what the computer programming wants to do. The paddles there are a complete joke since the car generally picks a more efficient gear than you and they provide no driver enjoyment. Flapping away at the paddles multiple times feels pretty dumb and is boring.
Again, will you be cheering when the steering wheel and remaining 2 pedals are removed in the name of "performance"? If not than why do you want to turn a wheel when the programming and sensors can get a better line than you? Do you want to be like a little kid with the wheel at the grocery store shopping cart? If you really want to improve the performance of the sports car get out of the car and let a professional drive it until computers can take over.
The whole idea of a sports car and driving for fun is becoming a dinosaur and buying an automatic ruins the enjoyment of the car. The government regulators are telling you the things you must value are fuel efficiency and low emissions and driving a computer controlled automatic lets helps them control your gears.
Your whole arguement is baseless and subjective. Please stop trolling.
Dual clutches are being marketed just like luxury car technology as something you mindlessly put in "D" so you can concentrate on the radio or texting. .
Yeah, that's why there in Formula 1 cars, the 919, GT Cup cars, the GT3 RS, etc. Must be the marketing.
I was just sitting in my dentist's office reading a Motor Trend article in which Randy Pobst is being effusive in his praise of the 991 Turbo S, including raving about the transmission and how it does everything he wants perfectly. That would be the PDK he's talking about...so I wonder, is he really an enthusiast(tm)?
I don't see how you can enjoy driving a sports car and then spend $4,000 for an automatic that takes away such a huge part of the driving enjoyment and control. Will you also enjoy handing the steering, braking, and throttle over to automation?
I think a lot of it comes down to engineering geekery. I don't care if PDK is faster on a track. I've never been on a track. I would probably be escorted out by security or transported out by paramedics if I ever did venture onto a track. But I have immense respect for the engineers who built and programmed that transmission. I'd feel bad if I punished them by insisting on buying a 3-pedal manual. They put in the hard work, they solved the problem of how to make an automatic that didn't suck, and they got my money.
I could see putting up a fight like you and neanicu do in these threads if we were talking about the disappearance of the last of the gated Ferrari shifters, or if we were talking about eliminating the manual gearbox in an S2000 or even a Miata. Those gearboxes, in conjunction with the cars they were installed in, were/are greater than the sum of their parts. They were better driving experiences than they had any right to be, and their wonderful transmissions were a big part of that. No automatic will ever offer a comparable experience in those cars... and yes, terms like "engagement" and "immersion" are exactly the right ones to use.
Porsche's manuals, on the other hand, have always been tools for getting the car moving and keeping it moving, nothing more. (Yes, I recognize that this is a matter of opinion, but having driven more than my share of manuals in numerous makes and models, I reserve the right to that opinion.) They have ranged from good to excellent over the years. They have never hit "Transcendent" or "Heavenly" or even "F'ing awesome." Porsche's manuals were always a thing that could be surpassed... and the PDK engineers have done what was necessary to surpass them.
The cars themselves don't *need* to rely on individual components like gated shifters or perfect clutches to provide a sublime driving experience. That's why I own one, after having driven nearly everything else.
Someone like the OP who thinks that swapping out the PDK for a manual (read: removing some computers and actuators from his existing 7-speed transmission and installing a stick and pedal) will turn his car from a "mistake" into his dream car has misidentified what's really going wrong in his life. Spending a ton of money and butchering a nice car isn't going to fix whatever that is, hence my sarcastic reply earlier.
Call that another opinion, if you will, but it's right.
NoahFect,I believe you haven't driven the 997 GT3 Getrag 6 speed or the new box in the Cayman GT4. I haven't driven the GT4 either...yet. People that did are calling it 9 out of 10 in history,right after the box found in the famous S2000.
NoahFect,I believe you haven't driven the 997 GT3 Getrag 6 speed or the new box in the Cayman GT4. I haven't driven the GT4 either...yet. People that did are calling it 9 out of 10 in history,right after the box found in the famous S2000.
I haven't driven a GT3, but I did try the 6-speed in the normal 981 cars, and it was indeed a great transmission. No argument there. I'm surprised they put a different gearbox in the GT4 or Spyder, though -- is it really a new piece of hardware?
I haven't driven a GT3, but I did try the 6-speed in the normal 981 cars, and it was indeed a great transmission. No argument there. I'm surprised they put a different gearbox in the GT4 or Spyder, though -- is it really a new piece of hardware?
It's a modified and beefed up 981 GTS box. The only downside of it is that they've kept the GTS's gear ratios which are too long for the GT4 in the name of emissions,but the feel is out of this World according to owners.
It's a modified and beefed up 981 GTS box. The only downside of it is that they've kept the GTS's gear ratios which are too long for the GT4 in the name of emissions,but the feel is out of this World according to owners.
Yeah, that's a big problem with the PDK as well. It might as well be a three-speed. First gear, second gear, and jail.
enthusiast .a person who is highly interested in a particular activity or subject:
"a sports car enthusiast"
^I think someone preferring manual versus PDK does not reinforce or negate them being a Porsche/car enthusiast. That is insanity.
Point is PDK is a faster gear switch time. On track or going to Publix. If you need to down shift from 5th to 2nd ... you triple tap the down shift paddle like you are trying to get Chun Li to do her lightening kick. It is faster than a human and the computer will only intervene to prevent a jackass from hurting the car.
But some people just enjoy manuals (like I did on my 997 and 986), old habits die hard.
Originally Posted by maxpowers
Dual clutches are being marketed just like luxury car technology as something you mindlessly put in "D" so you can concentrate on the radio or texting. With the automatic you can't go from 2nd to 5th yourself or pick what gear you want to downshift directly too. You're constantly dependent on what the computer programming wants to do. The paddles there are a complete joke since the car generally picks a more efficient gear than you and they provide no driver enjoyment. Flapping away at the paddles multiple times feels pretty dumb and is boring.
I test drove a $280,000 Ferrari - that had paddle shifters. No clutch.
So to make sure I understand, the 919 and 918 are both jokes with their "lux" paddle shifters? MT is dead and Porsche has been trying to tell their customers that but old schoolers refuse to let it go and Porsche has to cater to their customers. Look what happened with the GT3s.
On that note, I am cancelling my Xfinity internet service and getting my old 56K modem up back up and running because I am an internet enthusiast and the dialup experience is where its at.
as defined by my bing search... enthusiast .a person who is highly interested in a particular activity or subject: "a sports car enthusiast" ^I think someone preferring manual versus PDK does not reinforce or negate them being a Porsche/car enthusiast. That is insanity. Point is PDK is a faster gear switch time. On track or going to Publix. If you need to down shift from 5th to 2nd ... you triple tap the down shift paddle like you are trying to get Chun Li to do her lightening kick. It is faster than a human and the computer will only intervene to prevent a jackass from hurting the car. But some people just enjoy manuals (like I did on my 997 and 986), old habits die hard. I test drove a $280,000 Ferrari - that had paddle shifters. No clutch. So to make sure I understand, the 919 and 918 are both jokes with their "lux" paddle shifters? MT is dead and Porsche has been trying to tell their customers that but old schoolers refuse to let it go and Porsche has to cater to their customers. Look what happened with the GT3s. On that note, I am cancelling my Xfinity internet service and getting my old 56K modem up back up and running because I am an internet enthusiast and the dialup experience is where its at. -Mike
Lol! Mike,at least you keep it funny,but you are late to the party with the cable analogy. Many have tried and it just doesn't work that way. Some things can't be compared. Do you prefer a real handmade timepiece made in Switzerland or an Apple watch? See...I can play that game.
Lol! Mike,at least you keep it funny,but you are late to the party with the cable analogy. Many have tried and it just doesn't work that way. Some things can't be compared. Do you prefer a real handmade timepiece made in Switzerland or an Apple watch? See...I can play that game.
Yeah, the internet analogy was 150000000% a freaking joke lol
I still love a manual gear box. It is fun and in my blood. I've driven MT since 1999 in my college days.
Your whole arguement is baseless and subjective. Please stop trolling.
I was just sitting in my dentist's office reading a Motor Trend article in which Randy Pobst is being effusive in his praise of the 991 Turbo S, including raving about the transmission and how it does everything he wants perfectly. That would be the PDK he's talking about...so I wonder, is he really an enthusiast(tm)?
I could say the same to you about baseless, subjective, and trolling. I based my opinion on real world driving under numerous conditions with both the manual and automatic so it's nothing your claiming.
Randy Pobst also beams whenever he drives a high performance car with a manual transmission and says that's what he prefers. If you put him in an autonomous car he'd probably rave about the technology, but wouldn't buy a car with it for fun
09-30-2015, 05:39 PM
Yeah, that's why there in Formula 1 cars, the 919, GT Cup cars, the GT3 RS, etc. Must be the marketing.
Many have tried and it just doesn't work that way. Some things can't be compared. Do you prefer a real handmade timepiece made in Switzerland or an Apple watch? See...I can play that game.
