Daekwan

Hell I'd like to see you do it just to see how much it would cost.

I'm guessing about $25-30,000 total.

neanicu

I can certainly agree with your last point.

My view of things is definitely personal. I am not into a " crusade " of telling people what's best for them and what represents an enthusiast and what does not. Modern age,modern sport cars customers have definitely changed and altered my version of enthusiast. Numbers don't lie,the majority has bought into PDK and modern double clutch transmissions. I am not one of them and probably never will be,unless I won't be able to shift anymore.

Archimedes

I totally agree with you and I totally agree that a MT car is more fun to drive (in most situations). I just don't believe that it puts the driver more in tune with the car overall as a driver. Personally, I've found that the PDK allows me to spend a lot more mental focus on other elements of my driving when I'm driving hard, and I think it makes me a better and safer driver. And in hard driving situations, I simply love the instaneous shifts.

BTW, I only have these feelings with regard to the latest and greatest dual clutch auto gearboxes out there, of which I think Porsche has one of the best. I would not feel this way about any of the prior generations of automatics/sequential manuals. I would never have bought an automatic in any car that offered a manual prior to these latest gen DCTs from the Germans. But the technology is now so good, that I think it merits consideration by anyone.

neanicu

" Better and safer " certainly! If you are driving competitively there is no doubt you'll be faster in a PDK car. Safer goes along the same line,because PDK combined with a good E-diff and nannies will keep you on the road and track and you will eliminate the chance of money shifts.
More fun? Never! And I'm in this game to have fun.

Bacura

Personal preference is the key. I have had 2 MT 911's and 2 with PDK. To be absolutely blunt I got totally sick of shifting. I soooo much prefer the PDK now. I don't care if it's faster or slower. I don't care what my left foot does anymore. I just like driving the PDK more. For ME it's more fun.

Winegums

I hope you're able to keep shifting for a long time, and enjoying your car.

I daily drive my SMG E46 M3 and it's quite raw compared to the DCT transmissions of today. You have to work the throttle and be aware of what your drive train is doing at all times to get a smooth ride. It's nothing like the lightning fast smooth shifts that you get from a PDK.

A lot of the guys on M3 forum complain that the DCT is boring on the E9X compared to SMG. It lacks the raw feeling of the single clutch and takes away the involvement required by the driver.

Even when I get a PDK car I'm not going to sell my M3, if anything I might love it even more because it has the older single clutch tech.

Porsche_nuts

Could have fooled me after having read many of your other posts. That aside, have you ever driven a PDK? Granted, it will not change your mind, but it is an impressive bit of technology.

neanicu

Yes,I can be over the top sometimes,I agree. I'm hoping that if I can turn 1 Rennlister towards a manual transmission,I'll be happy.


To your second point,I have driven PDK a few times on the road and the PDK-S on the track.
Many boast their driving skills on the track around these forums. I don't because I'm not a good enough driver IMO. So PDK can certainly help me on the track. I don't go often enough to the track. And the majority are in the same position as I am. That makes street driving the highest percentage of driving. Totally bored with PDK in that instance!

maxpowers

I agree with you except I don't think you can be an enthusiast driver of a sports car without also wanting the feeling of shifting yourself and being in full control of the gears. In the 991 I love revving and shifting from 1st to 2nd and then right into 5th going on an on ramp or when I'm cruising in a high gear and based on the engine sound downshift to 2nd, 3rd, or 4th depending on how aggressive I want t be. Plus just the satisfaction of the engine noise, clutch and gearshift feel when shifting up or down. These automatics take all of that away from the experience and make driving about as enjoyable as playing grand turismo on the PS3.

I don't see how you can enjoy driving a sports car and then spend $4,000 for an automatic that takes away such a huge part of the driving enjoyment and control. Will you also enjoy handing the steering, braking, and throttle over to automation?

maxpowers

I test drove a PDK and had salesmen trying to push it on me. I also drove PDK on the track. Very impressive technology, but also extremely boring. The magic body control of the S class is also impressive so if I wanted comfortable and technology that puts me to sleep I would have bought the S class Mercedes-Benz or 7 series BMW. That's not what a sports car is about

Archimedes

You do realize that with the PDK you're still in full control of the gears, shifting yourself, right? The only thing you're not doing is pushing down a little pedal with your left foot each time you shift. Is that really what you think differentiates between an 'enthusiast' driver of a sports car and not?

So, by your definition, Lewis Hamilton isn't an enthusiast because his LaFerrari isn't a manual...

Archimedes

Except you just compared a technology that actually improves the performance of a sports car in sporting terms with a luxury car technology that has nothing to do with sports cars and or performance. Apples/oranges from which no analogous conclusions could be drawn.

The dual clutch transmissions gracing all of the high end sports cars these days were developed and perfected on the racetrack to improve the performance of the cars. If anything, one could argue that people who still drive a MT are living in the past, dinosaurs who care more about their image than the actual performance of their car. That doesn't sound like an enthusiast to me...

Yard Dog

I don't know if it's impossible, but I think you should try. It may be the best idea you have ever had.

Winegums

I really don't care if you think I'm not an enthusiast driver. You die hard manual transmission guys are hilarious.

In regards to "control" you've already lost your steering, and throttle to electronic control in the 991. The only thing you have control of is the brake pedal which is still monitored by the ABS system so argueably you don't have control of braking either.

maxpowers

Dual clutches are being marketed just like luxury car technology as something you mindlessly put in "D" so you can concentrate on the radio or texting. With the automatic you can't go from 2nd to 5th yourself or pick what gear you want to downshift directly too. You're constantly dependent on what the computer programming wants to do. The paddles there are a complete joke since the car generally picks a more efficient gear than you and they provide no driver enjoyment. Flapping away at the paddles multiple times feels pretty dumb and is boring.

Again, will you be cheering when the steering wheel and remaining 2 pedals are removed in the name of "performance"? If not than why do you want to turn a wheel when the programming and sensors can get a better line than you? Do you want to be like a little kid with the wheel at the grocery store shopping cart? If you really want to improve the performance of the sports car get out of the car and let a professional drive it until computers can take over.

The whole idea of a sports car and driving for fun is becoming a dinosaur and buying an automatic ruins the enjoyment of the car. The government regulators are telling you the things you must value are fuel efficiency and low emissions and driving a computer controlled automatic lets helps them control your gears.