maxpowers

Comparing something fun that people look forward to where you're interacting with the car while driving, such as the gearshift, pedals, or steering wheel to adjusting maintenance items is a textbook example of an apples to oranges comparison.

While there may be some mechanics that love to tinker with things, that comparison makes absolutely no sense to me and is completely without merit. It's like saying that people who prefer reading physical books must want to go back to the days when monks would copy them by hand and don't want to use computer printers.

On the other hand more and more cars are coming with features that automate cars to take away driving from us flawed humans and give control to (what they view as) precise infallible machines and many people are celebrating taking away any form of driving from people. That's why I'm so surprised about people saying "I had to get PDK because it takes away shifting from me and gives it to a machine that can do it faster". The obvious logical conclusion from that is that when the machine can brake, steer, and apply throttle faster and better than you you'll be paying extra to have those inputs while driving taken away from you. I'm just shocked that people who enjoy driving sports cars are happy moving in that direction.

squid42

What I need in this spectrum is car manufacturers allowing me to program the shifts on my own, my own software. Not the entire software, not taking over. But we should be free to trade among each other our PDK or DCT programming. After all these things allow manual mode anyway, so why not allow software we made do the same thing? (with the same limitations such as mandatory shifts at redline and before stall)

I am fine without the clutch pedal but it has been a long, long time since I have been driving any BMW, Porsche or Audi automatic in anything but manual mode. As long as the torque converter (if any) locks up properly I am fine. Mercedes can go to where the pepper grows, though.

I just don't like the thing with randomly shifting around for no good reason. These things have been programmed for other people's preferences, and there isn't enough foresight. I want my own shift strategy (within the limits of what I can do with manual shift mode anyway).

Hopefully the current hoopla about reverse engineering car software and all the safety and security problems in stock software open up this spectrum.

fast1

On the other hand more and more cars are coming with features that automate cars to take away driving from us flawed humans and give control to (what they view as) precise infallible machines and many people are celebrating taking away any form of driving from people. That's why I'm so surprised about people saying "I had to get PDK because it takes away shifting from me and gives it to a machine that can do it faster". The obvious logical conclusion from that is that when the machine can brake, steer, and apply throttle faster and better than you you'll be paying extra to have those inputs while driving taken away from you. I'm just shocked that people who enjoy driving sports cars are happy moving in that direction.

Since this is at least the tenth discussion of this topic on this forum, the arguments have all been made and we have been in the redundant stage for quite some time. Same points, just different words. So since no one will ever change their view, I wonder why anyone makes the effort.

cajerseyboy

YES! PUT IT TO BED!

VIC_50th

Yeah, it's kind of like Mt Everest - why bother, when so many have climbed it before?
- because it's there, of course!

BTW, Winegums, the "fanboys" appellation works both ways (that is, PDK fanboys are just as likely to get twisted knickers as MT fanboys).
Each to his own - I, like most others here, remain heartened that Porsche offers the choice (for the time being, at least).

fast1

But to use your metaphor, the dam mountain has been climbed by virtually the entire world's population.

maxpowers

Exactly. I don't get why people keep comparing wanting to control your car while you're driving to wanting to have crank starter or warming up a steam car. It just really annoys me and yet it keeps getting repeated in these threads.

canuck964

I think you are reading a little too much into my reply.

I really wasn't trying to make any points other than I can't imagine how hard it was to balance 4 carbs I had a hard enough time balancing 3 and that I am an such old fart that I remembered back to what we had to do to get our cars working.

To me I am not bothered by the rehashing of topic on these forums.

Without those endless treads manual vs auto, C4 vs C2, air cool vs H2O cooled etc. what else can we talk about? At least to me that is what keeps me coming back.

If this rehash bothers you why are you even reading this thread?

maxpowers

It was actually a few posts earlier that bothered me, but I didn't want to go back and copy and paste all of them.

It bothers me to let these outrageous statements go unanswered. I am curious what people have to say about this topic since the manual transmission is a huge part of what makes driving a sports car fun for me.

Until the last few years I didn't know what a carburetor was.

997s07

The PDK guys will make fun of us old schoolers for wanting to shift our own gears. I'll take the hits - if logical. Crank starters, carburetors, etc. don't deserve a response. Just like when MT guys call PDK guys lazy.

MerlinsGarage

Yesterday:

Cool sunny day. Lonely country roads with lots of triangle "S" signs. Driving at an Energetic but not aggressive level.
Hitting balanced upshifts with synchronized H&T downshifts.

"The Dance". It doesn't get any better than that..................

rk-d

As long as Porsche keeps making manuals and dedicating some effort to making them work well - I don't give a damn what people drive or why they do it.

Of course, the inevitability of hybrid drivetrain will probably render this all moot.

Ronan

I think we are in the waning days of natural aspiration and eventually the internal combustion engine sadly. Do not underestimate the environmental movement. It will be more and more expensive to use gas as the taxes pile on. As for the manual box its toast in ten years tops. When Porsche says it will no longer develop the manual it will continue to develop pdk and it is impressive how massively better the version in the RS is compared to the first version. Next gen will be better as always.
Of course there will be a market for existing cars. I kept one myself. People like them but as they get relatively slower compared to the latest cars they will be a smaller part of the market.
Think of an early 356. Valuable indeed but not much quicker than A Smart. Still desirable.
No idea why foks get excited about this. No effect at all on Ferrari sales. I would have bet that the death of the open gate manual would have been a sales disaster. Not so.
So the manual has already moved from being the default to a specialized choice. A small percentage of 911 sales. The numbers game is over for peeformance as race cars have long abandoned the technology
I accept that they are fun which is why I have one but the whole condemnation of the current technology is not for me. I love the transmission in the 991 RS and it does exactly what I tell it. It's just different.
Huge change is on the way in my view and Porsche is no exception