991 vs. 997.2
12-28-2014, 03:06 PM
#31
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Will this be a daily driver, 2nd car? Do you plan to track it? What's most important to you beyond cost?
I just went through the exact debate and bought a 2012 991 S with PDK. I would have been happy with either but found a low miles, S that was CPO and felt is was worth the extra $$. While there are many differences, I felt the 991 was the perfect match of new creature comfort and style but 100% 911.
Mine is basically my daily driver except in inclement weather.
I also felt a CPO car was a must considering all the new electronics.
Good luck!
I just went through the exact debate and bought a 2012 991 S with PDK. I would have been happy with either but found a low miles, S that was CPO and felt is was worth the extra $$. While there are many differences, I felt the 991 was the perfect match of new creature comfort and style but 100% 911.
Mine is basically my daily driver except in inclement weather.
I also felt a CPO car was a must considering all the new electronics.
Good luck!
12-28-2014, 05:57 PM
#32
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Enjoy the 991
Just went through the same analysis, 991 v. 997.2 and concluded that the ride, look, and price made the newer version a better PERSONAL choice for me. A well appointed 2012s with low ( below 10k ) miles can be had this time of year for around $80k ( after negotiations ) while the 997.2 could be had in the very high $60's but more likely $70's. My wife's advise was buy the best you can afford rather than saving a few $ and wondering later on whet it would have been like in the other car. Colleagues with 997.2 enjoyed the test drive even more than I did at first. The 991 is a technological marvel with virtually anything you want in options already built into the package. As for depreciation a two year old ( registered February 2012 but not sold to customer until May 2013) 991 took a substantial hit from the $114k retail price so you get an almost new car for much less. Never forget the pre purchase inspection ( which in this case told me there were no faults, 85 percent of brake and tire life left, and no other problems to date. Finally the PDk makes driving this effortlessly
12-29-2014, 03:50 PM
#33
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I had the same issue this summer. I was moving from a 996 into a newer one. I was playing around with the 997.2 C4S ... but ultimately was BLOWN away by a 991 S (2012). It also came with a warranty + CPO = the win
The car is SICK.
The car is SICK.
12-31-2014, 01:09 AM
#34
Rennlist Member
I don't mean to hijack this thread but I'm also trying to decide whether to keep my '10 C2s cab or trade it in on a '13 C4s cab. Can anyone say what they miss about their 997.2 car as compared to the 991? Or put it the other way, is the 991 really worth the expense? I have driven the 991 a lot (close friend has one), but the car I have sure is a lot of fun. What points do you use to make such a decision? Thanks in advance for any input.
12-31-2014, 01:18 AM
#35
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So I was in a very similar situation as you this past summer, as I was originally looking for a 997.2 C4S or 4GTS with MT, I searched for months, test drove several C4S's. I loved that car, I loved the ergonomic and infotainment improvements (and interior updates) over the 997.1. Perhaps most importantly, the intermediate shaft bearing (IMSB) was engineered out starting in 2009, with the arrival of the 997.2.
(I don't want this to start a flame / troll war -- I realize that the IMSB thing is blown out of proportion but let's be honest -- given the choice between an IMSB vs no IMSB, money withstanding, it would be silly to suggest it shouldn't matter. I mean, Porsche lost a class action lawsuit for goodness sake).
In terms of the MARKET:
Anyway, I also noticed that low mileage (i.e. < 20,000 mile) 997.2 C4S's were only about $15k less than 991 C4S's. The difference between 997.2 C2S vs 991 C2S was even smaller (as the C4S was just falling off the depreciation cliff). I believe the difference is about $10k now, between 997.2 C2S and 991 C4S. In terms of resale, the 997.2s have kept their values very well and are depreciating slowly. The 991 depreciation curve has yet to be seen.
In terms of the VEHICLES:
997.2 PROS: I agree with the experiences and sentiments of other RL posters -- the 997.2 is a bit more intimate, more mechanical, more twitchy even. The steering is more alive, it dances around in your hands, it's heavier at low speeds, it gives more feedback. I loved all those things. It felt very much a sports car, a thoroughbred straining against its reins.
991 PROS: A stabler, more refined ride, the body absorbs bumps and irregularities better, it feels more planted in corners, slow and at speed. Perhaps the dynamic engine mounts (on PASM equipped cars), helps control body motions as advertised. The chassis with its longer wheelbase seems much more composed. The cabin is noticeably quieter, with less engine noise intrusion. I have never tested a car with PDCC. I ended up getting a 991 C4S with Sport PASM, Sport Chrono, MT7, sport design kit (with front spoiler and ducktail) and sports exhaust. The interior is a little nicer than the 997.2's in terms of space, airiness, usability. In terms of materials it's close -- the leather in the 991 seems more durable and hard wearing, the perforations seem to collect less dust and grime. The base 991 C2 seemed a little blunt compared to the 997.2 C4S (MT, SC), but the base 991 C2 I test drove was bare bones, without sport chrono or PSE or PASM. Good solid car, but noticeably less sporty. In terms of technology, the 991 is obviously light years ahead. Bluetooth streaming, LCD on the dash, better lighting system, etc.
Ultimately I decided to get the 991 and pay the extra money. I DD the car and love every minute of it. I would have loved a 997.2 just as much I'm sure. But I was fortunate enough to be in a position to afford a 991 and decided its added refinement and luxuries were worth the money.
PS I have also test driven PDK 997s and 991s and the same comparisons and contrasts apply.
W
(I don't want this to start a flame / troll war -- I realize that the IMSB thing is blown out of proportion but let's be honest -- given the choice between an IMSB vs no IMSB, money withstanding, it would be silly to suggest it shouldn't matter. I mean, Porsche lost a class action lawsuit for goodness sake).
In terms of the MARKET:
Anyway, I also noticed that low mileage (i.e. < 20,000 mile) 997.2 C4S's were only about $15k less than 991 C4S's. The difference between 997.2 C2S vs 991 C2S was even smaller (as the C4S was just falling off the depreciation cliff). I believe the difference is about $10k now, between 997.2 C2S and 991 C4S. In terms of resale, the 997.2s have kept their values very well and are depreciating slowly. The 991 depreciation curve has yet to be seen.
In terms of the VEHICLES:
997.2 PROS: I agree with the experiences and sentiments of other RL posters -- the 997.2 is a bit more intimate, more mechanical, more twitchy even. The steering is more alive, it dances around in your hands, it's heavier at low speeds, it gives more feedback. I loved all those things. It felt very much a sports car, a thoroughbred straining against its reins.
991 PROS: A stabler, more refined ride, the body absorbs bumps and irregularities better, it feels more planted in corners, slow and at speed. Perhaps the dynamic engine mounts (on PASM equipped cars), helps control body motions as advertised. The chassis with its longer wheelbase seems much more composed. The cabin is noticeably quieter, with less engine noise intrusion. I have never tested a car with PDCC. I ended up getting a 991 C4S with Sport PASM, Sport Chrono, MT7, sport design kit (with front spoiler and ducktail) and sports exhaust. The interior is a little nicer than the 997.2's in terms of space, airiness, usability. In terms of materials it's close -- the leather in the 991 seems more durable and hard wearing, the perforations seem to collect less dust and grime. The base 991 C2 seemed a little blunt compared to the 997.2 C4S (MT, SC), but the base 991 C2 I test drove was bare bones, without sport chrono or PSE or PASM. Good solid car, but noticeably less sporty. In terms of technology, the 991 is obviously light years ahead. Bluetooth streaming, LCD on the dash, better lighting system, etc.
Ultimately I decided to get the 991 and pay the extra money. I DD the car and love every minute of it. I would have loved a 997.2 just as much I'm sure. But I was fortunate enough to be in a position to afford a 991 and decided its added refinement and luxuries were worth the money.
PS I have also test driven PDK 997s and 991s and the same comparisons and contrasts apply.
W
01-02-2015, 04:28 PM
#36
Sir Thomas Lord of All Mets Fans
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...
In terms of the VEHICLES:
997.2 PROS: I agree with the experiences and sentiments of other RL posters -- the 997.2 is a bit more intimate, more mechanical, more twitchy even. The steering is more alive, it dances around in your hands, it's heavier at low speeds, it gives more feedback...
W
In terms of the VEHICLES:
997.2 PROS: I agree with the experiences and sentiments of other RL posters -- the 997.2 is a bit more intimate, more mechanical, more twitchy even. The steering is more alive, it dances around in your hands, it's heavier at low speeds, it gives more feedback...
W
01-02-2015, 04:35 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
I think we need a better definition of "twitchy"; for me "twitch" has negative connotations of a suspension that does not inspire confidence because its
dynamic behavior is unpredictable.
I don't think the 997 (at least the GT3 is "twitchy" by that definition)
I personally find the 997 (GT3) suspension to be "highly responsive" once it takes a set it inspires confident and has considerable grip.
cant speak for the 991 yet ... my guess is that the increased wheelbase, track and new ML rear setup has only improved things beyond the 997.
p.s
If you ever get the chance to drive or ride in a 996.2 GT3 (or even better the RS variant) you will experience the last "manual" suspension on a GT car
awesome when driven right ...
dynamic behavior is unpredictable.
I don't think the 997 (at least the GT3 is "twitchy" by that definition)
I personally find the 997 (GT3) suspension to be "highly responsive" once it takes a set it inspires confident and has considerable grip.
cant speak for the 991 yet ... my guess is that the increased wheelbase, track and new ML rear setup has only improved things beyond the 997.
p.s
If you ever get the chance to drive or ride in a 996.2 GT3 (or even better the RS variant) you will experience the last "manual" suspension on a GT car
awesome when driven right ...
01-02-2015, 04:41 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
01-02-2015, 04:45 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
I don't think the extra 30bhp of the GT3 would make that much of a difference at Rockingham, since the infield is such a twisty course... low end torque will
be more telling... as for the PCCBs, well they do impact unsprung weight,
and they are a LOT larger than the 991s but I dont think the 991 would be
outbraked (much) by the GT3 until the steels got heat soaked...
01-02-2015, 06:07 PM
#40
true the GT3 is on either Corsas or MPSC+ vs the PZeros so that will impact the time somewhat.
I don't think the extra 30bhp of the GT3 would make that much of a difference at Rockingham, since the infield is such a twisty course... low end torque will
be more telling... as for the PCCBs, well they do impact unsprung weight,
and they are a LOT larger than the 991s but I dont think the 991 would be
outbraked (much) by the GT3 until the steels got heat soaked...
I don't think the extra 30bhp of the GT3 would make that much of a difference at Rockingham, since the infield is such a twisty course... low end torque will
be more telling... as for the PCCBs, well they do impact unsprung weight,
and they are a LOT larger than the 991s but I dont think the 991 would be
outbraked (much) by the GT3 until the steels got heat soaked...
Not to even talk about the lack of rear seats since I have a toddler and I will get to use them for few good years.
01-02-2015, 06:55 PM
#41
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Regarding my choice of the word "twitchy" regarding the 997.2:
What I meant was that the input/output relationship is more linear and more sensitive. You can make the car "wiggle" with the tiniest steering wheel inputs even at speed, whereas this relationship is a little dulled in the 991 with its electric power steering. I recall that many car journalists' reviews say that the steering feel in the 991 is nearly indistinguishable to the 997 and I cannot say I fully agree with that. Drive them back to back and I think many will notice the difference. I did not mean to attribute a negative connotation to the 997.2's steering, as I think it's about perfect. There are some things about the 997.2 that some may find preferable to the 991, such as the steering and shifter feel. I just prefer the 991 experience as a whole, but that is a point of personal taste and opinion.
I did make a post about the shift gate feel on a different thread regarding comparisions of the 997 6MT and the 991 7MT. I have been paying particularly close attention to this lately and today I drove the cayman 987 and the 991 C4S back to back, as well as my friends's 996 C4S, and I have to say that the shift effort is less in all those cars vs. the 991. It seems that the throws are just a TAD more rubbery in the 991, particularly at colder temperatures before the car warms up. I still think the 991's is a great shift mechanism, just a little more resistance in the throws.
W
What I meant was that the input/output relationship is more linear and more sensitive. You can make the car "wiggle" with the tiniest steering wheel inputs even at speed, whereas this relationship is a little dulled in the 991 with its electric power steering. I recall that many car journalists' reviews say that the steering feel in the 991 is nearly indistinguishable to the 997 and I cannot say I fully agree with that. Drive them back to back and I think many will notice the difference. I did not mean to attribute a negative connotation to the 997.2's steering, as I think it's about perfect. There are some things about the 997.2 that some may find preferable to the 991, such as the steering and shifter feel. I just prefer the 991 experience as a whole, but that is a point of personal taste and opinion.
I did make a post about the shift gate feel on a different thread regarding comparisions of the 997 6MT and the 991 7MT. I have been paying particularly close attention to this lately and today I drove the cayman 987 and the 991 C4S back to back, as well as my friends's 996 C4S, and I have to say that the shift effort is less in all those cars vs. the 991. It seems that the throws are just a TAD more rubbery in the 991, particularly at colder temperatures before the car warms up. I still think the 991's is a great shift mechanism, just a little more resistance in the throws.
W
01-02-2015, 07:03 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
Good points but there is no way I can justify a 997 3.8 GT3 vs. a slightly used 2013 991 C2S, the later can be had for under $80K with low miles while the former cannot be found less than $115K unmolested and with low miles, many of those got used (or abused) on the track... The difference between the two is too small in terms of performance, difference that I will not be able to discern myself.
Not to even talk about the lack of rear seats since I have a toddler and I will get to use them for few good years.
Not to even talk about the lack of rear seats since I have a toddler and I will get to use them for few good years.
Regarding my choice of the word "twitchy" regarding the 997.2:
What I meant was that the input/output relationship is more linear and more sensitive. You can make the car "wiggle" with the tiniest steering wheel inputs even at speed, whereas this relationship is a little dulled in the 991 with its electric power steering. I recall that many car journalists' reviews say that the steering feel in the 991 is nearly indistinguishable to the 997 and I cannot say I fully agree with that. Drive them back to back and I think many will notice the difference. I did not mean to attribute a negative connotation to the 997.2's steering, as I think it's about perfect. There are some things about the 997.2 that some may find preferable to the 991, such as the steering and shifter feel. I just prefer the 991 experience as a whole, but that is a point of personal taste and opinion.
I did make a post about the shift gate feel on a different thread regarding comparisions of the 997 6MT and the 991 7MT. I have been paying particularly close attention to this lately and today I drove the cayman 987 and the 991 C4S back to back, as well as my friends's 996 C4S, and I have to say that the shift effort is less in all those cars vs. the 991. It seems that the throws are just a TAD more rubbery in the 991, particularly at colder temperatures before the car warms up. I still think the 991's is a great shift mechanism, just a little more resistance in the throws.
W
What I meant was that the input/output relationship is more linear and more sensitive. You can make the car "wiggle" with the tiniest steering wheel inputs even at speed, whereas this relationship is a little dulled in the 991 with its electric power steering. I recall that many car journalists' reviews say that the steering feel in the 991 is nearly indistinguishable to the 997 and I cannot say I fully agree with that. Drive them back to back and I think many will notice the difference. I did not mean to attribute a negative connotation to the 997.2's steering, as I think it's about perfect. There are some things about the 997.2 that some may find preferable to the 991, such as the steering and shifter feel. I just prefer the 991 experience as a whole, but that is a point of personal taste and opinion.
I did make a post about the shift gate feel on a different thread regarding comparisions of the 997 6MT and the 991 7MT. I have been paying particularly close attention to this lately and today I drove the cayman 987 and the 991 C4S back to back, as well as my friends's 996 C4S, and I have to say that the shift effort is less in all those cars vs. the 991. It seems that the throws are just a TAD more rubbery in the 991, particularly at colder temperatures before the car warms up. I still think the 991's is a great shift mechanism, just a little more resistance in the throws.
W
01-03-2015, 10:39 AM
#43
Drifting
Regarding my choice of the word "twitchy" regarding the 997.2:
What I meant was that the input/output relationship is more linear and more sensitive. You can make the car "wiggle" with the tiniest steering wheel inputs even at speed, whereas this relationship is a little dulled in the 991 with its electric power steering. I recall that many car journalists' reviews say that the steering feel in the 991 is nearly indistinguishable to the 997 and I cannot say I fully agree with that. Drive them back to back and I think many will notice the difference. I did not mean to attribute a negative connotation to the 997.2's steering, as I think it's about perfect. There are some things about the 997.2 that some may find preferable to the 991, such as the steering and shifter feel. I just prefer the 991 experience as a whole, but that is a point of personal taste and opinion.
I did make a post about the shift gate feel on a different thread regarding comparisions of the 997 6MT and the 991 7MT. I have been paying particularly close attention to this lately and today I drove the cayman 987 and the 991 C4S back to back, as well as my friends's 996 C4S, and I have to say that the shift effort is less in all those cars vs. the 991. It seems that the throws are just a TAD more rubbery in the 991, particularly at colder temperatures before the car warms up. I still think the 991's is a great shift mechanism, just a little more resistance in the throws.
W
What I meant was that the input/output relationship is more linear and more sensitive. You can make the car "wiggle" with the tiniest steering wheel inputs even at speed, whereas this relationship is a little dulled in the 991 with its electric power steering. I recall that many car journalists' reviews say that the steering feel in the 991 is nearly indistinguishable to the 997 and I cannot say I fully agree with that. Drive them back to back and I think many will notice the difference. I did not mean to attribute a negative connotation to the 997.2's steering, as I think it's about perfect. There are some things about the 997.2 that some may find preferable to the 991, such as the steering and shifter feel. I just prefer the 991 experience as a whole, but that is a point of personal taste and opinion.
I did make a post about the shift gate feel on a different thread regarding comparisions of the 997 6MT and the 991 7MT. I have been paying particularly close attention to this lately and today I drove the cayman 987 and the 991 C4S back to back, as well as my friends's 996 C4S, and I have to say that the shift effort is less in all those cars vs. the 991. It seems that the throws are just a TAD more rubbery in the 991, particularly at colder temperatures before the car warms up. I still think the 991's is a great shift mechanism, just a little more resistance in the throws.
W
01-03-2015, 11:44 AM
#44
Sir Thomas Lord of All Mets Fans
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Ok, what you called twitchy, I would call responsive & sensitive steering. That I concur with 997.2%!! In fact, even more than the extra HP vs previous cars I've owned, I'd say the steering responsiveness is the biggest diff I have noticed/enjoyed thus far in my Porsche...T
01-03-2015, 02:29 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
This is a very difficult decision, I have debated trading up to a 991-S, but I am just afraid of regret, I really love my 997-S. My real reason is I want a Cabrio and I think it looks MUCH better in the 991 vs the 997 especially with the roof up. I have debated the 981-GTS Boxster as well.
You really can not go wrong with either. I do prefer the steering of the 997, but wouldn't mind the updated tech of the 991.
You really can not go wrong with either. I do prefer the steering of the 997, but wouldn't mind the updated tech of the 991.