Merc AMG GT vs 991
09-11-2014, 10:47 AM
#31
Race Director
Don't kid yourself this car is going to be competitive price wise with the bigger power 911's. MB usually has a prem pack for 4-5K that loads up the car with all the options. Porsche likes the lower base and then nickels and dimes us to death on options that should be standard on cars of this price. Furthermore it will compete on the track. This car has an aluminum body making it lighter than the SLS, 53 to 47 weight ratio and DCT.
The piece de resistance on this sucker has to be the TT 4.0L V8. Porsche has a great 6 cyl. but we would all trade for a high rev FLAT 8.
I for one am anxious to see this car and it could be the replacement for my 911.
PS I must admit to a certain bias towards MB. My 2015 E400 will be my 21st new MB since 1983.
The piece de resistance on this sucker has to be the TT 4.0L V8. Porsche has a great 6 cyl. but we would all trade for a high rev FLAT 8.
I for one am anxious to see this car and it could be the replacement for my 911.
PS I must admit to a certain bias towards MB. My 2015 E400 will be my 21st new MB since 1983.
09-11-2014, 11:52 AM
#33
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I don't know why, but I just have such a hard time taking Mercedes seriously in the sports car arena. I don't care how much power or audible grunt their cars make, they just look too prissy for me.
Clearly they are trying to fix that here and as others have said, I'm sure that the car will perform nicely and be quite fun to drive ... but is it a timeless ORIGINAL classic like a 911? Never.
Clearly they are trying to fix that here and as others have said, I'm sure that the car will perform nicely and be quite fun to drive ... but is it a timeless ORIGINAL classic like a 911? Never.
09-11-2014, 12:01 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I guess another analogy ... take a classic watch, the timeless Rolex Submariner. It's clearly the original. Performs like a champ. And cheesily copied by dozens of other watch manufacturers.
09-11-2014, 12:34 PM
#35
Nordschleife Master
I don't know why some think Mercedes is trying to copy the 911. They are trying to build a sportscar,that's all! For years manufacturers have been using the 911 as a benchmark,but that doesn't mean they were trying to copy its design.
Same argument can be had when the 991 came out and some said that Porsche is copying Aston Martin's rear design. Plain stupid.
You want a 911,get a 911,you want a Mercedes get a Mercedes. Or get both. Or a Jag. Different strokes for different folks.
Same argument can be had when the 991 came out and some said that Porsche is copying Aston Martin's rear design. Plain stupid.
You want a 911,get a 911,you want a Mercedes get a Mercedes. Or get both. Or a Jag. Different strokes for different folks.
09-11-2014, 12:36 PM
#36
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
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I don't know why some think Mercedes is trying to copy the 911. They are trying to build a sportscar,that's all! For years manufacturers have been using the 911 as a benchmark,but that doesn't mean they were trying to copy its design.
Same argument can be had when the 991 came out and some said that Porsche is copying Aston Martin's rear design. Plain stupid.
You want a 911,get a 911,you want a Mercedes get a Mercedes. Or get both. Or a Jag. Different strokes for different folks.
Same argument can be had when the 991 came out and some said that Porsche is copying Aston Martin's rear design. Plain stupid.
You want a 911,get a 911,you want a Mercedes get a Mercedes. Or get both. Or a Jag. Different strokes for different folks.
It's not just the peanut gallery on the message boards perpetuating this meme ...
09-11-2014, 12:54 PM
#38
Nordschleife Master
Again,they've built it with the 911 in mind as a BENCHMARK,which means : " we have to build a sportscar that is practical like a 911,can be used on the track and then drive home comfortably,good brakes,good handling etc etc " .
09-11-2014, 05:44 PM
#39
Three Wheelin'
Lets wait and see in real life.
BUT, with the info we have now, pics and vids, its biggest problem is the looks. The 991 to me is a homogenic design, it's a 911, full stop. The Merc GT looks like a collage of different cars. There is some SLS in there, some 911, some BMW Z4, some Aston Vantage V8, some ...
BUT, with the info we have now, pics and vids, its biggest problem is the looks. The 991 to me is a homogenic design, it's a 911, full stop. The Merc GT looks like a collage of different cars. There is some SLS in there, some 911, some BMW Z4, some Aston Vantage V8, some ...
09-11-2014, 06:14 PM
#40
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991s are more expensive than the 997.2s, creating room for six-figure sports cars like this AMG GT, a new car with 0 street or track credentials. this move confirms that mercedes deems the SL--even in AMG (or Black) form--is a serious sports car.
09-11-2014, 06:58 PM
#41
All this benchmark talk reminds me of Jerry Seinfeld's remark back when the Carrera GT was new: "its not the new benchmark. It's the new bench."
This profoundly apt metaphor is the dilemma (not a problem, problems have solutions) confronting anyone trying to compete, or even compare, with the 911. Because, if the 911 is a benchmark, then the bench is built on 50 year old bedrock, with legs reinforced by more race victories than the next 10 cars put together, a bench top polished to the nanometer from relentless refinement, with lighting and optics to put the Hubble to shame, in a studio with air cleaner than Yosemite. From there you look over and can't help but notice the AMG guy, stogie hanging out his mouth, wedging a matchbook under a leg to try and stop his bench wobbling. Oh crap, the 'designer' was 'designing' when the table rocked! No worries, we'll just make that a hole in the side of the car, add a few swoops, it'll be cool.
What a joke.
This profoundly apt metaphor is the dilemma (not a problem, problems have solutions) confronting anyone trying to compete, or even compare, with the 911. Because, if the 911 is a benchmark, then the bench is built on 50 year old bedrock, with legs reinforced by more race victories than the next 10 cars put together, a bench top polished to the nanometer from relentless refinement, with lighting and optics to put the Hubble to shame, in a studio with air cleaner than Yosemite. From there you look over and can't help but notice the AMG guy, stogie hanging out his mouth, wedging a matchbook under a leg to try and stop his bench wobbling. Oh crap, the 'designer' was 'designing' when the table rocked! No worries, we'll just make that a hole in the side of the car, add a few swoops, it'll be cool.
What a joke.
09-11-2014, 07:07 PM
#42
Nordschleife Master
To you Chuck,but it's not like you're blindly and hopelessly in love with the 911....
Realistically,we're car guys...and this car can have its appeal to a certain category of consumers. Some of them might be 911 owners...so what?! I don't see it as a problem. It'll just push Porsche to continue developing in order to remain the benchmark.
Realistically,we're car guys...and this car can have its appeal to a certain category of consumers. Some of them might be 911 owners...so what?! I don't see it as a problem. It'll just push Porsche to continue developing in order to remain the benchmark.
09-11-2014, 08:43 PM
#43
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wow, talk about fanboys. I thought I only got this level of fanaticism on the GTR forums. the 911 is a great sports car, but that doesn't preclude other sports cars from being great or even just good. call the AMG GT a "joke" is a joke!
09-11-2014, 10:27 PM
#44
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I think it looks terrific.
Overall I think the current crop of modern 100k-ish Euro sports cars (991, Jag, Aston, R8, and this GT) are particularly beautiful. We are in a golden age of performance and design.
Overall I think the current crop of modern 100k-ish Euro sports cars (991, Jag, Aston, R8, and this GT) are particularly beautiful. We are in a golden age of performance and design.
09-12-2014, 08:53 AM
#45
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A couple of points:
1) The price point of the AMG GT and AMG GT-S has been announced for Germany (in Euro's). And it is priced around the 991 Carrera and Carrera S. It is much cheaper than the 991 GT3/Turbo/TurboS.
2) Having said that, it's claimed acceleration numbers (0-100km/h in 3.8-4.0 s) are definitely faster than the 991 Carrera and Carrera S, and it's claimed Ring laptime (7:36) is in the ball park of the 991 Carrera S, but slower than the 991 GT3.
So regardless of the subjective aspect of it's looks or how it "drives", the 991 is going to be challenged here from a performance point of view. The more hard core Black Series version will take the fight straight to the GT3/Turbo/Turbo S.
Obviously, Porsche will counter this with the facelifted 991.2 (or 992?). I'm sure the newer 911's will be faster than before, so it will be interesting times in the next 2-3 years. And remember, McLaren will be coming out with a 911 competitor too.......
1) The price point of the AMG GT and AMG GT-S has been announced for Germany (in Euro's). And it is priced around the 991 Carrera and Carrera S. It is much cheaper than the 991 GT3/Turbo/TurboS.
2) Having said that, it's claimed acceleration numbers (0-100km/h in 3.8-4.0 s) are definitely faster than the 991 Carrera and Carrera S, and it's claimed Ring laptime (7:36) is in the ball park of the 991 Carrera S, but slower than the 991 GT3.
So regardless of the subjective aspect of it's looks or how it "drives", the 991 is going to be challenged here from a performance point of view. The more hard core Black Series version will take the fight straight to the GT3/Turbo/Turbo S.
Obviously, Porsche will counter this with the facelifted 991.2 (or 992?). I'm sure the newer 911's will be faster than before, so it will be interesting times in the next 2-3 years. And remember, McLaren will be coming out with a 911 competitor too.......