Ducktails? Why on a 991?
Race Car
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,522
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Why ducktail? One could equally ask why Fuchs? Unlike when each was originally used, there are no performance bennies. I am certain the "stock spoiler is at least as effective, so it seems more a style preference. I think the 991 looks great either way (but like the OP really appreciate the lines with it retracted, enjoy seeing the top when it deploys), and am glad i can't see the hardware view from back of the car when driving!
Don't go dragging the venerable Fuchs into this! Best friggen' wheel ever made! (Okay there are now carbon fiber wheels- lets see how they're holding up 30 years on…) But yeah, its definitely a style preference. The basic 991 body is easily the most awesomely beautiful car ever. It is perfect as perfect can be (at least until they make the next one) and needs no embellishment. So adaptive aero is the way to go. Fixed spoilers and wings, they do look a lot better, in and of themselves. But then they also alter the look- less elegant, more functional. It'll be nice to see how they improve the deployed look in future versions.
Race Car
Joined: Jun 2012
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From: Maryland USA
Chuck. I just suggested the question. The answer is clear. They are fricken gorgeous the way they come on the 991/50.
Race Car
Joined: Jun 2012
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I just re-read it and realized you said "unlike when each [the Fuchs] was originally used…" How'd I miss that?! The "new Fuchs" looks good but you are right, unlike the original its not a performance item. Why aren't they making a proper carbon fiber Fuchs homage?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,028
Likes: 4
From: North Vancouver, BC
Why ducktail? One could equally ask why Fuchs? Unlike when each was originally used, there are no performance bennies. I am certain the "stock spoiler is at least as effective, so it seems more a style preference. I think the 991 looks great either way (but like the OP really appreciate the lines with it retracted, enjoy seeing the top when it deploys), and am glad i can't see the hardware view from back of the car when driving!
Race Car
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,628
Likes: 346
From: Maryland USA
Personally I love the ducktail and as to performance if no benefit over the normal spoiler why does Porsche allow a normal spoiler with standard front end but requires the deeper front spoiler effect to mount a ducktail on the rear? I suspect that the ducktail gives just a little more downforce as it's designed for just that.
If the ducktail balances out the increased downforce of the sport design front bumper cap, then you are right. That would also mean the standard trim front and rear would have a straight line advantage with less overall drag.
Then, there is the extra low front spoiler on 10 mm lower sport suspension cars, despite no ducktail or rear wing. So ride ride hight must have a significant effect in balancing the car.
Then, the rear spoiler does not deploy until about 80 mph, so the imbalance effects must be negligible below that speed.
Of course, there may be a strong marketing effect to balancing the options. These are extra cost options and, how does it go? Oh I remember: "Porsche: merchandizing is expected".
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RL Community Team
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Joined: Sep 2005
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Lots of possibilities:
If the ducktail balances out the increased downforce of the sport design front bumper cap, then you are right. That would also mean the standard trim front and rear would have a straight line advantage with less overall drag.
Then, there is the extra low front spoiler on 10 mm lower sport suspension cars, despite no ducktail or rear wing. So ride ride hight must have a significant effect in balancing the car.
Then, the rear spoiler does not deploy until about 80 mph, so the imbalance effects must be negligible below that speed.
Of course, there may be a strong marketing effect to balancing the options. These are extra cost options and, how does it go? Oh I remember: "Porsche: merchandizing is expected".
If the ducktail balances out the increased downforce of the sport design front bumper cap, then you are right. That would also mean the standard trim front and rear would have a straight line advantage with less overall drag.
Then, there is the extra low front spoiler on 10 mm lower sport suspension cars, despite no ducktail or rear wing. So ride ride hight must have a significant effect in balancing the car.
Then, the rear spoiler does not deploy until about 80 mph, so the imbalance effects must be negligible below that speed.
Of course, there may be a strong marketing effect to balancing the options. These are extra cost options and, how does it go? Oh I remember: "Porsche: merchandizing is expected".
Apparently, however, the Sport Design Pkg front spoiler by itself is compatible with the downforce generated by the standard flip-up tail.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,663
Likes: 135
From: SC
This discussion lacks one thing. How many people really drive their cars to the point where the aerodynamics really come into effect? When I installed the TechArt spoilers, I only had the rear installed before taking it on the track. At +150mph, I could feel the front end starting to lift from the lack of the front spoiler. 2 weeks later, after the front spoiler install, a noticeable difference at over 160.
I'm just saying.
I'm just saying.
RL Community Team
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This discussion lacks one thing. How many people really drive their cars to the point where the aerodynamics really come into effect? When I installed the TechArt spoilers, I only had the rear installed before taking it on the track. At +150mph, I could feel the front end starting to lift from the lack of the front spoiler. 2 weeks later, after the front spoiler install, a noticeable difference at over 160.
I'm just saying.
I'm just saying.
But, consider it from Porsche's perspective.
Let's say they let a customer pick and choose front and rear spoiler, and someone opts just for the ducktail spoiler and leaves the front "unspoiled" and then takes the car to the track and gets it up to 150+ and the car gets floaty on the straights and a bit wobbly on the curves.
Then comes on these boards and starts a post ranting and raving about how the 911 can't be driven at high speeds, and that it sucks, and that the C7 is much better ...
I'm just saying.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 26,152
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From: S.F Bay Area
checkout the US configurator, there is a new option package 'sport package' for $2060 that includes:
- sport chrono
- PSE
- sport design wheel
- sport design mirrors
- sport design aero
that's usually $10-11k set of options ...
its not yet selectable for some reason, but if you are thinking of a ducktail this would be the way to get it
- sport chrono
- PSE
- sport design wheel
- sport design mirrors
- sport design aero
that's usually $10-11k set of options ...
its not yet selectable for some reason, but if you are thinking of a ducktail this would be the way to get it
Race Car
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,628
Likes: 346
From: Maryland USA
Very few, of course, as you allude to.
But, consider it from Porsche's perspective.
Let's say they let a customer pick and choose front and rear spoiler, and someone opts just for the ducktail spoiler and leaves the front "unspoiled" and then takes the car to the track and gets it up to 150+ and the car gets floaty on the straights and a bit wobbly on the curves.
Then comes on these boards and starts a post ranting and raving about how the 911 can't be driven at high speeds, and that it sucks, and that the C7 is much better ...
I'm just saying.
But, consider it from Porsche's perspective.
Let's say they let a customer pick and choose front and rear spoiler, and someone opts just for the ducktail spoiler and leaves the front "unspoiled" and then takes the car to the track and gets it up to 150+ and the car gets floaty on the straights and a bit wobbly on the curves.
Then comes on these boards and starts a post ranting and raving about how the 911 can't be driven at high speeds, and that it sucks, and that the C7 is much better ...
I'm just saying.
By the way, rear spoilers work to reduce the lift created by the sloping rear- more than to generate downs force. On my 911SC track car, the effect was very obvious in sweeping turns from about 80 mph- the car was better planted and far more stable, allowing more throttle. On 991s with higher rear ends and other better aero it like begins to be noticeable at somewhat higher speeds.
Advanced
Joined: Apr 2014
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chuckbdc, agree, it reduces lift rather than create downforce. A car is kind of shaped like a wing, flat on the bottom and curved over the top, "tripping" (glider term) the airflow separates it from the wing, at some point, reducing both lift and drag. How much, I don't know. Will I ever go fast enough for it to matter, ???. MerlinsGarage, to my eye also. Jelly bean colors look great with a ducktail.