manual vs PDK
04-10-2014 | 04:00 AM
#62
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,416
Likes: 41
From: Europe
Agreed 100%
Steering, braking and throttle all exert control over the cars acceleration, which affects weight balance, which ultimately determines how much traction is available to make the car go where you want it to go. There is nothing menial about them. Steering, braking and throttle control require great skill. Shifting, not so much. As an instructor I have never seen anyone get into trouble shifting. When people crash its always lack of skill in steering, braking and/or throttle. Never shifting.
Oh sure, its nice when people are able to do it well, but its really not required. Which makes it, you know, menial. In a hundred-plus years we've eliminated hand cranking, manual spark advance, manual choke, a whole slew of menial tasks drivers once took great pride in being able to perform well. Even though, if the car was made better they wouldn't have to be done at all. Now, manual shifting. Ahh, progress.
Oh sure, its nice when people are able to do it well, but its really not required. Which makes it, you know, menial. In a hundred-plus years we've eliminated hand cranking, manual spark advance, manual choke, a whole slew of menial tasks drivers once took great pride in being able to perform well. Even though, if the car was made better they wouldn't have to be done at all. Now, manual shifting. Ahh, progress.
04-10-2014 | 04:35 AM
#63
Race Car
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,522
Likes: 59
Trolls may have started it, but as I recall it was the clever Hobbits who kept the conversation going, while the sun came up, and turned the stupid Trolls to stone.
04-10-2014 | 11:22 AM
#64
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 821
Likes: 6
From: Pacific NW
Oops and yeah, heart bleed - change your passes to anything remotely valuable. Now.. I've got math to attend.
04-10-2014 | 11:48 AM
#65
Banned
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 4,651
Likes: 667
04-10-2014 | 12:12 PM
#66
Pro
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 725
Likes: 10
For all those who are whining about the familiar nature of this thread...if we're boring you, feel free to move on to something more interesting to you. Complaining here just makes you come off as "trollish" (needlessly/unproductively interfering with a thread), even though that's probably the farthest thing from your intent...
PDK also affects weight balance...negatively. But thanks for making my point, which is: with another few years of "progress", the manufacturers (probably including Porsche) will be selling autonomous cars that will eliminate the necessity to perform any of those functions which you're still willing to admit do have actual value. Then, those functions will be "menial" as well. At that point, are you going to throw in the towel and just sit back with a good book while your car whisks you from one location to another? I'll bet not. I suspect you'll be resisting autonomous operation right along with the rest of us. To some of us, the enjoyment of properly shifting our own manual transmissions falls into that same "valued" category of skills. The line on "progress" is constantly moving. Whether or not "progress" equates to actual improvement or not is always going to be subjective...
PDK also affects weight balance...negatively. But thanks for making my point, which is: with another few years of "progress", the manufacturers (probably including Porsche) will be selling autonomous cars that will eliminate the necessity to perform any of those functions which you're still willing to admit do have actual value. Then, those functions will be "menial" as well. At that point, are you going to throw in the towel and just sit back with a good book while your car whisks you from one location to another? I'll bet not. I suspect you'll be resisting autonomous operation right along with the rest of us. To some of us, the enjoyment of properly shifting our own manual transmissions falls into that same "valued" category of skills. The line on "progress" is constantly moving. Whether or not "progress" equates to actual improvement or not is always going to be subjective...
Part of driving a sports car is using a manual transmission. I'm not opposed to technology making the clutch easier to use, easier shifting, even rev matching downshifts as an option (that you can turn off). What I'm opposed to is manufactures taking away our choice because "computer control is faster" and easier for people to drink drunk/while texting and also for people who won't take the couple days to learn to drive a stick.
04-10-2014 | 12:28 PM
#67
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,710
Likes: 10
I can drive stick. I don't drink or text while I drive. I have had 2 previous 911's with stick. I had both of those at the track. Driving with stick can be fun and enjoyable for many. No one argues that. I didn't buy PDK for extra speed or your ridiculous point about weight balance. I bought PDK because saving 4K wasn't important and i'm sick of shifting. Let me repeat that....I was sick of shifting since It's my DD and I'm in traffic a lot. I guess I'm a lesser driver and my car isn't a real sports car. I still din't care because...you guessed it..... I'm sick of shifting. You will get older as well. And I've had an AMG. And no, a PDK 911 isn't the same as an AMG Mercedes. People who enjoy MT are fine. People who drive PDK are fine. But people who put down one because they drive the other are not fine.
04-10-2014 | 12:33 PM
#68
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 188
Likes: 1
From: UK South East
The important point is that the option for either is there, so at least you satisfy both requirements. The discussion would be different if Porsche was asking - we are dropping one of these, which one should it be ...
04-10-2014 | 01:23 PM
#69
Race Car
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,522
Likes: 59
While the option is there for the 991, its already gone for the GT3 and Turbo. And Porsche isn't asking, because they know which one it will be. We all do.
04-10-2014 | 01:35 PM
#70
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 9,986
Likes: 378
From: Ny
Porsche is not asking...they've taken the same attitude with Nick's car,just as they've done in the past in many other cases. The cocky attitude will serve them well in the future...let's see how long the Kool-Aid will last. They might just turn back from " the most profitable car company in the World " to the brink of collapse they have been in the past.
But it's ok,the 4 cyl Turbo 911 with hybrid technology,PDK plus the whole alphabet combined of letters to describe nannies,they can keep... Sell it to the younger generation highly interested in sport cars!
04-10-2014 | 04:41 PM
#71
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 234
Likes: 5
From: S.E. Wisconsin, U.S.A.
I never meant to disparage anyone for wanting a PDK. It's a fantastic automatic, possibly the very best one to date, and I'm glad Porsche created it...for people who want an automatic. I'm just tired of being told that I'm backward or old-fashioned because I'm not interested in driving any automatic, no matter how good it is. I'm only shopping Porsches right now because the models that I'm interested in are offered with great manual transmissions. When this is no longer true, I'll stop shopping Porsches. I know they won't notice the loss, and that's fine with me. I'm only 59 right now, but if I someday develop knee or other leg issues and can no longer physically operate a clutch, then I'd be open to considering a PDK, too...just, not until I have to.
04-10-2014 | 04:53 PM
#72
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,242
Likes: 78
From: Merrick, Long Island NY (Jeff)
And I would say the same goes for the other side, e.g. being told I'm lame because I chose a PDK and am not "in touch" with the full 911 experience... or some such.
04-10-2014 | 06:02 PM
#73
Pro
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 554
Likes: 132
From: New York
04-10-2014 | 06:05 PM
#74
Pro
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 554
Likes: 132
From: New York
04-10-2014 | 06:06 PM
#75
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,950
Likes: 134