DRJX

Does anyone have actual information, rumors, wild guesses, magic 8 ball answers, etc. on what is likely to happen with 991 residuals? Rennlist has a number of discussions of residuals that are 2-3% higher than what I'm seeing, so I'm guessing that they went down. Are likely to go up soon?

hankinjax

I am in middle of negotiations with dealer. They are telling me 70% residual for C2 with PDK. 71% with MT, .0023 money factor. I think official money factor is .0020 but i can't complain because they are at 10% off MSRP.

Flowmacks

You can find the latest lease rates here--

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2014/...e/417/rebates/

You can select other models in the drop down.

These are for 15K/yr programs. Add 1 point to the residual for 12K, 2 for 10k, and 3 for 7,500. Subtract 1pt for PDK. The 15% markup on the interest rate sucks, not sure I'll fare any better.



After 6 months of test driving and weighing options, I've got my eye on a C2S on a dealer lot that I was going to buy on Friday.

I'm thinking that march 2013 was they introduced the conquest cash program along with the higher residuals, so I'll probably wait another week to see if there's any new programs. I could be wrong, may just run down on Friday.

MJBird993

Thanks for the link, Flow. I'm expecting my new car soon, so I'm weighing the pros and cons between financing and leasing. What I save in sales tax by leasing is mostly eaten up by the fees, and the interest rate is higher. But after XX months, I can walk away and not worry about resale. It's not so easy to sell an $80,000 used car.

hankinjax

What does you guys think. I have dealer at 9.6% off MSRP on C2 and them using the correct money factor and residual per what is listed online. From what i have read i think this is a pretty good deal. I just don't want to be ripped off. Should I go for it?

MJBird993

9.6% is a stunning deal! Unless it's a leftover 2013...

The Porsche money factor at 4.5% is no deal. Have you considered using conventional financing instead? There are a lot of additional fees on a lease as well.

mtbscott

I'm not anti-leasing, but it's never seemed to me that Porsches "lease well." Some brands, especially BMW market heavily on their subvented 2-3 year leases. They sell the car once, then it comes back to them 2-3 years later with low mileage and they can sell it again as a CPO.
1.9% or so finance rates are all over right now, I would think a 60 month finance with minimal or zero down would give payments comparable to 4.5% lease rates and you should be around break even at 2-3 years.
I will admit this is tempered by the fact that in Texas leasing is almost never a good deal as you have to pay the full sales tax upfront. Most captive financial programs offer balloon note type deals here as alternatives.

daddyscar

In CA you only pay sales tax on the portion you lease. If you finance you pay sales tax on the full amount. Plus if you trade in a car in CA, you don't get any sales tax credit towards your next car you buy. That's why in CA, for $100k cars that you don't drive much and don't plan to keep long, the 5k/yr, 24-27mo lease deals through PFS are pretty attractive.

Flowmacks

I've leased 4 cars, so I guess that tells you where I sit...

Three factors that figure into a car expense-

depreciation- very high in the first two/three years, then leveling out depending on use.

interest if financing/ opportunity cost if buying outright- the Porsche lease MF does blow at 4.8%, but depending on your circumstances is probably equal or less than your opportunity cost of capital. The Porsche finance rates of %2.49 on a purchase are competitive, but you'll have a higher monthly cash payment - refer back to opportunity cost.

Maintenance-low in the beginning rising over time and not a material factor at this price point.

Why lease?

Your car will depreciate based on usage and market conditions independent of your financing decision. A lease agreement captures that depreciation expense giving you a call option at the end to buy the car at the end for the residual value. So, at the end of the lease if your car is worth more to you or someone than the residual you buy it- I've bought out 3 of my 4 leases at the end of term for this reason. If it's worth less, because they've used high residual figures to move units, the pre-owned car market is soft, or most important with a car like this- you crash it and it has a Carfax report on it you turn it in and move on. So, lease agreements give you some additional options because the lessor (PFS) is holding the asset and taking on these risks.

The PFS lease terms make the contrast between buying and leasing easy. They're steering us to two year leases with the solid residuals make it a no brainier if you want to try a 911 for a couple of years. Especially if you're getting a %10 discount. I've been scouting 911's for a couple years, they started these two year deals last year and it's working. They're also creative with pull forward programs, so you can expect that they'll be working to get you in a new car way before the lease is up.

If you plan to keep the car for a while spreading that depreciation expense over many years, then you may want to buy it.

Some people will mention taxes/ writing it off if you own a business. Depends on your situation. I really don't see it as a major factor in the buy vs. lease thing. you can write off depreciation expense if you own it the same way. And as mtb says, you can still get boned on sales tax depending on your state. '

Flowmacks

Sorry- double posted

Flowmacks

True. I'm from CA, just moved to Atlanta. They just changed the law here so have to pay full tax on a lease just like a purchase. So, I'm going to trade my M5 on the 911 before the lease term is up to offset the tax hit. After this, I'm pretty much hosed.

fantom

With the sweet 2 year lease deal PFS had on 991's a year ago, many of them will be coming back between November 2014 and January 2015, because of the high residuals on them.

Do you have any experience or insight on PFS dealing for a lower buyout offer, about 10% lower?

Thanks.

Flowmacks

None. Haven't crossed that bridge yet. Did it with BMW, tried with Lexus but they wouldn't.

smichael

I need to lease a pre-owned (2012.5) for tax reasons. The dealer is giving me a story that their "normal" 36 month 2014 car MF rate of .0022 goes up to .0027 on a 2012.5. Is it true that for cars still within the first 5 years their MF goes up year by year? Or, is this dealer "Razzmataz"? What should a Tier 1 36 mo. lease MF on a 2012.5 be?

CardiffDweller

I agreed with almost everything Flowmacks said on lease versus buy with the possible exception of the above. My understanding is that the Internal Revenue Code limits your ability to depreciate a car as a business expense. The first two years aren't such a big deal since the limits are high ($8k'ish the first year?), but the depreciation limits hit hard in year 3, based on what I remember. I am not ambitious enough to look up the rules right now, but that's my memory.