Originally Posted by Key Left

The turbo needs 4WD because of the extreme power, but why 4WD on the Carrera S? Unless you contemplate winter operation, it's plus 175lbs and less pure steering feel to deal with (like an extra person, really). Not to mention the bloated-body look, IMHO, and higher drag coefficient.

Originally Posted by ahughes3214

Hello all, I’ve been reading through the forum for quite some time now, but post infrequently. I would like to solicit opinions on my configurations below. I traded my 2012 GTS in earlier this month and will be ordering a MY2015 991 later this year. In the meantime I have been working in the Configurator and I was pretty set on a C4S, but as it turns out, the pricing is close to a Turbo, so I need to look at that option.

I plan to keep the car for quite some time, possibly until they put me in a box. Still, based upon the option to base price ratio, the Turbo certainly looks to be the better way to go financially.

But not having access to drive a Turbo at this time I thought I would ask this group for opinions/observations/regrets.

My biggest concern is that I have read the Turbo lacks the aggressive sound and especially the burbling when the throttle is let off. Would anyone be able to comment on this from first hand experience? I will certainly try to test drive one when available, just looking to get feedback now.

Also, looking at pictures of the Turbo, the rear looks much wider than the C4S, is it that noticeable in person?

After seeing nmurry’s dark blue with SportTechno’s I’m pretty sold on the exterior color combo, so no need to comment on that. However, I am not sure about Agate gray interior. I have been to a few dealerships and have yet to see this color in a 991. As I understand it, it has a brownish hue, not sure if that is true or not. Actual owner comments appreciated.

Finally, does anyone have any suggestions for must haves that I may not have checked?

Thanks,
Drew

911 Turbo $165,505
Dark Blue Metallic N4
Leather Interior in Agate Grey DK
ParkAssist (Front and Rear) incl. Reversing Camera 638
Porsche Entry & Drive 625
Model Designation on Doors in Silver CAT
SportDesign Wing Mirrors 529
Deletion of Model Designation 498
Sport Chrono Package 640
Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC) 352
Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK) 250
20-inch Sport Classic Wheels XRU
Seat Ventilation (Front) 541
Light Design Package 630
Power Sport Seats (14-way) with Memory Package P06
Adaptive Cruise Control incl. Porsche Active Safe (PAS) 456
Luggage Net in Passenger Footwell 581
Smoking Package 583
Fire Extinguisher 509
Seat Heating (Front) 342
Center Console Trim in Leather XHB


911 Carrera 4S $151,340
BOSE® Audio Package P3H
Premium Package Plus i.c.w. Power Sport Seats (14-way) P3E
Dark Blue Metallic N4
Leather Interior in Agate Grey DK
Porsche Dynamic Light System (PDLS) 603
ParkAssist (Front and Rear) 636
Model Designation on Doors in Silver CAT
SportDesign Wing Mirrors 529
Deletion of Model Designation 498
Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK) 250
Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC) incl. PASM Sport Suspension 031
Carrera S Powerkit X51
20-inch SportTechno Wheels XRT
Adaptive Cruise Control incl. Porsche Active Safe (PAS) 456
Instrument Dials in Black 022
Luggage Net in Passenger Footwell 581
Smoking Package 583
Fire Extinguisher 509
Power Sport Seats (14-way) with Memory Package P06
Center Console Trim in Leather XHB
SportDesign Steering Wheel 840

Originally Posted by Key Left

The turbo needs 4WD because of the extreme power, but why 4WD on the Carrera S? Unless you contemplate winter operation, it's plus 175lbs and less pure steering feel to deal with (like an extra person, really). Not to mention the bloated-body look, IMHO, and higher drag coefficient.

Originally Posted by Suzy991

Less pure steering feel? Higher drag coefficient?? 175@bs weight difference??? First of all, the steering feel is slightly better, although barely noticeable, no one is gonna notice 0.01 Cd difference in drag coefficient either and the weight difference is 111lbs, not 175.

If one likes the look, is very subjective. Another one likes the C2(S), one like the C4(S). It doesn't matter what car you favour. Eauch to his or her own, but as far as I can tell from these comments, it's obvious that you havan't driven the C4(S).

Suzy (via iOS app)

Originally Posted by Key Left

Driven steering wheels loose traction due to engine torque moving what's below them, like water, snow grit, etc.. Therefore less pure steering input from the driver. Also, the torque-steer effect on take offs causes issues. When you add PDK plus AWD you get to plus 175lbs, and yes that's like carrying an extra person around all the time. And one of the big 911 complaints is that it is bloated looking versus the Cayman, so why add more bloat with a fat rear (which by the way carries a 295 size tire, which costs more to operate/replace).

Originally Posted by ipse dixit

I'm not taking issue what you've said, nor am I trying to argue whether the 2S or 4S or the TT/TTS is better, etc.

I'm just curious whether your statement above is based on actually driving the 2S and 4S?

I ask only because before buying my 4S, I was fortunate enough to drive both the 2S and 4S quite extensively (as well as the TT). And for me, at least, I couldn't really detect the lack of pure steering input that you describe above in the 4S. There was a difference, but not one that I would ascribe as lacking "pure steering input" from the driver. To me, anyway, the 4S felt more planted, and in many respects actually more nimble than its 2S counterpart.

I know many people have expressed the same sentiment as you have about the steering input on the 4S, and I was just curious whether yours was based on actual driving experience, or commonly held beliefs about AWD steering in general.

Again, I don't mean this to be confrontational, because I am unable to detect what you and many others has described about the steering, and I just attributed my inability to recognize this deficiency in the 4S due to the fact that my driving skills are not yet developed enough.

Given that you're probably a far better driver than I am, I would appreciate your thoughts on this.

Originally Posted by fester

Originally Posted by Suzy991

Less pure steering feel? Higher drag coefficient?? 175@bs weight difference??? First of all, the steering feel is slightly better, although barely noticeable, no one is gonna notice 0.01 Cd difference in drag coefficient either and the weight difference is 111lbs, not 175.

If one likes the look, is very subjective. Another one likes the C2(S), one like the C4(S). It doesn't matter what car you favour. Eauch to his or her own, but as far as I can tell from these comments, it's obvious that you havan't driven the C4(S).

Suzy (via iOS app)

Originally Posted by chuck911

There's always been some truth to both sides. A lot of Key Wests points were in the past real faults. Some though are cherry picking. Forgetting, for example, that the front wheels don't just steer. They also brake, and when braking they pose all the same traction control problems for the driver as driven wheels will under acceleration. Older technology exacerbated this but that has changed dramatically to where power is controlled so much more effectively its become like Ipse says actually more nimble. But as far as feel goes, I've said before and its now become pretty well established fact that the electric power steering Porsche uses now gives them the ability to dial in pretty much whatever feel they want regardless of platform. They can if they want make the 4S steering feel better than the GT3 while at the same time dialing the 2S down. They'd never do anything like that but it is pretty clear they did tune the 4S to feel at least as good as the 2S, despite the front wheels being driven. As for the 4S feeling 'planted' at least some of this is due to the extra mass up front. Its distributed around, some sprung, some unsprung, so like everything else not so simple, but a lot of the 'planted' feeling can be replicated in the difference between a near empty and full tank of gas.

But in addition to feeling planted Ipse also noted the 4S feels more nimble. Planted, massive and nimble don't usually go together. But that's because the front wheels, even in a rear wheel drive car, aren't simply purely steering. The front wheels are only able to turn the car by first generating a lateral force, which when you vector it out shows a braking force. Driving the front wheels allows power to counter this force. In other words, that's right, the potential for more pure steering is with all wheel drive.

None of which says much about which is better. That all comes down to implementation (which is now crazy good) and personal preference.

Originally Posted by Key Left

First it's Key Left, not West LOL. Second, under braking both systems are driven...but under acceleration, where surfaces have a tendency to give, AWD spins, up front, and while spinning steering traction is lost