ahughes3214

Hello all, I’ve been reading through the forum for quite some time now, but post infrequently. I would like to solicit opinions on my configurations below. I traded my 2012 GTS in earlier this month and will be ordering a MY2015 991 later this year. In the meantime I have been working in the Configurator and I was pretty set on a C4S, but as it turns out, the pricing is close to a Turbo, so I need to look at that option.

I plan to keep the car for quite some time, possibly until they put me in a box. Still, based upon the option to base price ratio, the Turbo certainly looks to be the better way to go financially.

But not having access to drive a Turbo at this time I thought I would ask this group for opinions/observations/regrets.

My biggest concern is that I have read the Turbo lacks the aggressive sound and especially the burbling when the throttle is let off. Would anyone be able to comment on this from first hand experience? I will certainly try to test drive one when available, just looking to get feedback now.

Also, looking at pictures of the Turbo, the rear looks much wider than the C4S, is it that noticeable in person?

After seeing nmurry’s dark blue with SportTechno’s I’m pretty sold on the exterior color combo, so no need to comment on that. However, I am not sure about Agate gray interior. I have been to a few dealerships and have yet to see this color in a 991. As I understand it, it has a brownish hue, not sure if that is true or not. Actual owner comments appreciated.

Finally, does anyone have any suggestions for must haves that I may not have checked?

Thanks,
Drew

911 Turbo $165,505
Dark Blue Metallic N4
Leather Interior in Agate Grey DK
ParkAssist (Front and Rear) incl. Reversing Camera 638
Porsche Entry & Drive 625
Model Designation on Doors in Silver CAT
SportDesign Wing Mirrors 529
Deletion of Model Designation 498
Sport Chrono Package 640
Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC) 352
Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK) 250
20-inch Sport Classic Wheels XRU
Seat Ventilation (Front) 541
Light Design Package 630
Power Sport Seats (14-way) with Memory Package P06
Adaptive Cruise Control incl. Porsche Active Safe (PAS) 456
Luggage Net in Passenger Footwell 581
Smoking Package 583
Fire Extinguisher 509
Seat Heating (Front) 342
Center Console Trim in Leather XHB


911 Carrera 4S $151,340
BOSE® Audio Package P3H
Premium Package Plus i.c.w. Power Sport Seats (14-way) P3E
Dark Blue Metallic N4
Leather Interior in Agate Grey DK
Porsche Dynamic Light System (PDLS) 603
ParkAssist (Front and Rear) 636
Model Designation on Doors in Silver CAT
SportDesign Wing Mirrors 529
Deletion of Model Designation 498
Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK) 250
Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC) incl. PASM Sport Suspension 031
Carrera S Powerkit X51
20-inch SportTechno Wheels XRT
Adaptive Cruise Control incl. Porsche Active Safe (PAS) 456
Instrument Dials in Black 022
Luggage Net in Passenger Footwell 581
Smoking Package 583
Fire Extinguisher 509
Power Sport Seats (14-way) with Memory Package P06
Center Console Trim in Leather XHB
SportDesign Steering Wheel 840

chuck911

All turbo's run their exhaust through the turbines which inevitably quiets things down so yes you will hear what you described. Of course part of the decreased sound may have to do with supersonic acceleration, so there is that… Normally people are comparing a 2wd 911 to the Turbo, in which case the main consideration aside from supersonic is sports car feel. These really tend to be two separate worlds. But between 4S and Turbo I would think you will find the Turbo delivering a lot more car for the money. I'm only talking about the cars, haven't even read your options list. Only you can decide how important certain options are.

As for the cars however, the Turbo has a significantly more sophisticated suspension, with all wheel steering, vastly improved aerodynamics, and incredible, effortless acceleration. As Achleitner says, "I know of no other car in the world with this sovereignty." Plus you can skip the fire extinguisher (okay I did peek at the options) as so far at least it seems only the normally aspirated Carreras catch fire after changing the oil.

Okay that last bit was a joke. I think. But seriously: sovereign!

Suzy991

I agree with chuck. Turbo is an amazing car to drive. The rush you get is addictive. However, the C4S has a much nicer sound and a better throttle respons (although the 991 Turbo has a very good respons for a turbocharged car, it can't match the n/a engine of the Carrera).
I've been in the exact same situation and have been torn between C4S and Turbo S. It's a hard decision. Both cars have different appeals. The C4S looks absolutely gorgeous (best looking Porsche ever IMHO and I didn't forget the CGT), but the Turbo offers a certain feeling when you drive, that I haven't felt in any other car yet. It's so smooth and extremely fast... Maybe even too fast for most countries (one tiny reason why I didn't order one, since fines over here are extreme).

As my main car (DD), I would pick the Turbo, but as a second car/fun car I would pick the C4S. It offers just a little bit more fun and makes you smile every time you drive the car.
The Turbo also makes you smile, because of its rediculous acceleration... But you'll get used to that pretty quick and then it becomes normal. The PSE exhaust note of the n/a engine will always provide a smile, no matter how often you hear it.

Everything is subjective of course. It's not an easy decision.

Regarding the options... Options are very personal, like Chuck already said. Get what you like, especially if you plan to keep this car for long.
Agate grey interior has a very brownish hue to it. That's for sure. Beautiful color, but IMO not really a color to match with dark blue, but that's a matter of taste.

Maybe an alternative would be a two-tone black/platinum grey interior. IMHO a very beautiful and classy combination with dark blue metallic. Another benefit is that you get some deviated stitching for free, which makes the interior look just that little bit more expensive.

Good luck with this difficult choice

Suzy (via iOS app)

Slantnose!

Have you considered a GT3?

pyramid

Great info by others, just adding my personal experiences (own C2, owned 911_50 x51, test drove turbo s and expecting april delivery).

Aggressive sound is simple aftermarket muffler change if really needed.
The burbling will get old very fast, in fact I find it annoying after awhile.

The rear of Turbo/s is much wider visually in person. Not even funny when parked side by side with C4S/911_50. Totally on different league.

For option, I would suggest adding brushed aluminum panels as the chrome plastic looks tacky.

At the end, you may want to compare your final build with turbo s, just saying..

Badknees

I don't know your financial situation, but if you could swing it, I'd go Turbo. I've always hated settling for perceived 'less'. If you get the Turbo, you'll never say to yourself "I should have gotten the Turbo". I've read more posts about going from a C4S to Turbo than the other way 'round.

I'll echo Suzy's comment about the Black / Platinum Grey two tone interior for that Blue exterior.

Coincident

To me this is a no brainer. There are the NA 911s and in a different realm is the Turbo. The speed and feel sets it apart. The Turbo completes what the NA 911s begin. The GT 3 is not included in the above comments since it is a track oriented vehicle which may not be of appeal. If your budget can accomodate the Turbo get it.

chuck911

Just thought I'd expand on 'supersonic'. It was chosen partly for fun, but also in part because it is just such an apt phrase to describe the Turbo. Brings to mind plane or jet, which if you ever get the chance to really open it up is what they feel like, maybe even more like a jet than a car. I don't mean this in a bad way at all, but I do think it has a lot to do with comments I made and Suzy expanded on where the NA cars are more fun. But just like options, we all have a little bit different idea of what is fun.

Now unlike Suzy I have not driven the new Turbo. In fact the newest Turbo I've driven was the last 996 Turbo. But it was no test drive, but a full day of DE with a student who wanted to see what his brand new car could do. So instead of me driving my car in the Instructor group it wound up parked while I drove his Turbo all day. (It's sometimes very good to be an Instructor!) While this is a 996 Turbo I think it will help a lot, especially since so very few will ever get the chance to experience anything like this with any Turbo.

This was at Pacific Raceway, fka Seattle Int'l Raceway or SIR, a very old track originally built by a wealthy garbage hauler to give his teenage kids a safe place to get their speed fix. It winds through a forest with lots of elevation changes and dips and bumps, much more like normal crappy US roads than the geometrically computer generated uniform tracks so common today. Mario Andretti drove here twice, and when he was back the second time said it was like he remembered, "a fun track, but there's nowhere you can afford not to be paying attention."

Now pretty much every car in the Instructor run group is on R-compounds, if not slicks, with tons of suspension work and a highly skilled driver. Like the 993 C4S in front of me. Now being an Instructor driving a students car hardly calls for selfishly having a blast going as fast as I can. So what I did was each lap I would drive one section very fast, then ease off and talk about it, then repeat on a different section. Mike just kept going his usual 99% in the C4S. The Turbo on street tires was so fast that despite me giving a huge gap it would reel him in at an alarming rate no matter which section of the track we were on.

But every lap we would do the straight flat-out, and every lap would see 150 in turn 1. The straight at PR doubles as a drag strip, so after 1/4 mi dead flat it slopes up a few degrees and continues straight while turn 1 goes off to the right. This creates a very challenging underweighted off camber situation right at the highest speed part of the track, especially if you get off-line at all, and of course like most of the track features lots of little bumps to challenge your suspension and keep you on your toes. The Turbo made doing this at 150 feel like just another day commuting to work on the Interstate. Just to be sure everyone understands, because I know I kid around a lot, but on several laps this is where I would be talking, sometimes gesturing, with just one hand lightly on the wheel. That's just how capable and confidence-inspiring a Turbo is even at very high speed. (I've taken laps in a Cup Car where we were no faster through there, just a whole lot noisier and nowhere near as comfortable.)

Now right after 150 mph 1 you must brake hard for third-gear 2. Applying the brakes at such speeds in most cars is quite an event due to aero lift, to say nothing of the particular challenges of this track, with its ripply bumpy surface of seams and patches. But again, same thing, like braking for the off-ramp at 60. It honestly felt as if the car would stop in a straight line even without my hand on the wheel. Oh, you could feel the tires and the whole car working all right, just without ever getting any sense of needing any driver intervention at all.

I could go on through the hard downhill braking, the hairpins, the incredible uphill acceleration, but you get the idea. And this was a 996 Turbo. So instead of reeling in a 993 C4S imagine doing it to a 997 C4S. Or scratch that, a 997 GT3. And with rear wheel steering and vastly improved brakes, suspension and aerodynamics that will undoubtedly make it all seem even more surreally effortless than it was for me in the 996TT.

So it kind of depends on where your particular fun dial is set. It can be more than a little frustrating having so much potential performance forced so much of the time to lie fallow. Or it could bring Kingly grace knowing that at any time on any road you and you alone are sovereign. I don't know. One thing I do know is given your choice I would go with the Turbo. In Agate. And Espresso. Definitely Espresso.

WCE

Last sports car before they put you in a box? And you need a C4S at $151k?
Pony up the extra $14k for the turbo!

parkerfe

But, you may say "...I should have gotten the Turbo S, or GT3 or GT2...". There is always something better. Even if you buy Vettel's 2013 F1 Championship F1 car, there will be a better one for 2014...

parkerfe

The 50th anniversary model has the best option to base price ratio. The soon to be released GTS will likely be even better in that respect.

fer2367

I am afraid the 2014 will be worse then the 2013

but yes, you have a point, there is always something better...

bccars

So true parkerfe !

ahughes3214

Thanks to all for your feedback, I really appreciate it. I know there are at least a few others on this site that have gone down the same road.

I had been looking at the various models and it just seemed to escalate. First a C2S to replace my ’12 GTS; I was hooked as soon as I saw and drove the 991. Then wow, look at the curves of the C4S, oh, and wait, I must have the powerkit! Look how much it smoothes out the hp and torque curves, now I arrive at the turbo.

I think the GT3 looks best; aside from the rear wing, and considered it as Slantnose! suggested. If I were to get one, I would want to take the rear wing off and replace it with the standard pop-up. Regardless, that is out of the question because I need the rear seat. I inquired with the dealer and he told me the factory would not do a rear seat in the GT3. I doubt he ever really checked with the factory, but from what I’ve read on the forums, this is not a new question. Rule out the GT3.

I was ready to place an order for a 911-50 (Parkerfe), but was told custom paint was not possible on this special model. I did not like the limited colors offered…so rule out the 911-50.

Turbo S is also out of the question. I’ve already done the “it’s just a little more” argument and got to the turbo. I just don’t want to spend that much, and would like to stay married. Not to mention, I have no interest in the carbon brakes, and an extra 40 hp or so on top of 500 is not really needed for me.

I agree with many of you (Chuck911, Badknees, Coincident, and WCE) that the turbo should be a no brainer, except for a few things that I need to get past.
1) I really believe the C4S is a better looking car. The turbo with the flat rear arches is just a little wide and awkward for my liking (at least in photos). I definitely need to see in person.
2) In the photos, it also appears that the turbo sits rather high. The gap between top of tire and fender looks like a car without SPASM. I really like the lower look of the SPASM equipped C4S. Again, I definitely need to see in person.
3) I love the PSE burble on the NA; I drove my 997 with the PSE on all the time. However, I could live without this given the incredible performance figures for the turbo.

So it basically comes down to incredible performance, owning near the top of the range, better resale (should it ever come), and not to forget “sovereignty“ versus the better aesthetics of the C4S.

On some of the other feedback;
1) I had an engine fire once and had to use windshield washer fluid to put it out (no kidding); extinguisher is now standard equipment in my cars.
2) I thought about the brushed aluminum, but I am concerned it will not match the sport design wheel which has that same plastic look as the standard trim. I don’t know which is worse, non-matching trim and steering wheel (if brushed trim selected), or all standard plastic look.
3) I need to see the agate leather in person, if that does not work out, I’ll probably go black. I had a light color in my 997 and the carpet was a pain to keep up, and the leather seats showed the blue dye from jeans. I’m not one to clean my cars much; I’d rather just drive them.


Thanks all,
Drew

chuck911

I'm always puzzled when I see someone prefer the look they think says 'performance' over performance itself. But not choosing a Turbo because it sits rather high? For reals?