Carlo_Carrera

Yes, Ferraris have certainly lost their appeal, value and cashe since they were taken over by Fiat in the 70s.

Get real. The 991 Turbo model will probably become one of the most collectible Porsche 911 generations because like the 993 Turbo it is a brilliant piece of automotive engineering.

goofballdeluxe

Except the 993 Turbo was made in far, far fewer numbers than the 991 Turbo will be made.

And had a manual transmission

Wanna see where 991 Turbo prices will be in the years ahead? Simply look at used 997 Turbo prices now. Their performance numbers are similar. They will be mass-produced in similar numbers. Their prices will track similarly as well, I'll bet

Tacet-Conundrum

Thank you Eric, I looked at the website and I didn't know he was an actual Porsche Dealer, wish I would have known that yesterday. I plugged in the actual "Additional Equipment" into the Configurator on Porsche's website. If you wanted to build this car right now with the following equipment:

250 - Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK)
342 - Seat heating (front)
435 - 20-inch 911 Turbo S Wheels
456 - Adaptive cruise control incl. Porsche Active Safe (PAS)
541 - Seat Ventilation (Front)
625 - Porsche Entry & Drive
630 - Light Design Package
651 - Sunroof
658 - Power Steering Plus
A1 - Black
AZ - Leather interior in Black
P3M - Burmester® High-End Infotainment Package

The Grand Total from Porsche's Configurator is $192,285

Now remember the Auction State's "This car is brand new inside and out but at the price of a pre-owned car"

By the way I did take my pills this morning.

rodsky

The 991 turbo will never be collectible. The 993 was made in small numbers, is rare and is air cooled and manual. Plus its desireable. That is what makes it collectible. No mass produced 911 or Ferrari for that matter (think 430 or 458) will be collectible or worth more than they were when new.

goofballdeluxe

Never say never.

Although I agree with your sentiment 100%, things can become valuable over time, simply because they still exist.

Even a simple piece of pottery worth pennies when new, is now often worth hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars when a few hundred years go by.

The 997 Turbo was mass-produced much in the same way the 991 Turbo will be, but I think it will be a future collectible because it will be the last manual transmission Turbo ever offered by Porsche most likely

Carlo_Carrera

You are both wrong because you are thinking about the future with your current brain. We will have to wait at least another 15-20 years to see where water cooled Turbo prices end up. And just because many were made does predict how many will survive. Look at the current C2 and C3 Corvette market as an example.

In fifty years almost no one will know how to drive a manual transmission and 99.9% of Ferraris made the past ten years are flappy paddle so that aspect is a moot point.

The 993 Turbo is collectible because it is the last air cooled Turbo.

The 996 Turbo will be collectible because it is the first street version of the LeMans winning GT1 engine.

The 997.1 Turbo will be collectable because it is last Turbo with the GT1 engine.

The 991 Turbo will be collectible because the 991 body and suspension system runs rings around any Porsche 911 that has come before it.

goofballdeluxe

Why do we need to wait 15-20 years to see where water cooled Turbo prices will end up? You can buy a decent 996 Turbo in the $40s now. That was never the case with the 993 Turbo. Mass production coupled with butt ugly styling ensures it will be an also-ran in terms of collectibility, most likely. That's what the market is saying, anyway.

In fifty years, anyone will be able to learn how to drive an old manual car, just as it only takes a few hours to learn now. Early 20th century steam engine cars are hard to learn to motor, and some trade for hundreds of thousands of dollars and are very collectible.

C2/C3 Corvettes are collectible exactly because they are old and weren't made in the numbers the 996/997/991s were. Apples to oranges. You cannot compare a 50 year old car made in the tens of thousands to a 10 year old car made in the hundreds of thousands.

Yes right now the 991 is Porsche's latest and greatest. It is the fastest and most capable. The 996 was at one time. So was the 997. Now it's the 991. Soon, the next generation will be fastest and most capable.

Cars that are desirable when new, with outstanding design and performance, and built in small numbers usually are the most collectible.

If you wanna see where 991s will end up, you only need to look at the 996 and 997 series. They are all from the same manufacturer, built to the same standard, and all the Turbos put up similar performance numbers and were all built in the same numbers.

We can all guess. Only time will tell. And time is already speaking about the 993 and 996. Good news for the 993. Not as good news for the 996. One was beautiful and built in small numbers, the other was ugly and built in huge quantities. That matters a lot when it comes to collectibility, and the market agrees so far.

The rest we can wait and see

rodsky

I'm struggling to think of many cars that were produced in the multiple thousands that are collectible. Rarity is normally the start to collectible. From there add desirable. At most its cars who's run is at most a couple thousand or less, think 1973 RS, F40, Carrera GT (starting to become more valuable), GT3RS 4.0. Real collectibles are made in 10's or hundreds at most - think 250GTO, Macca F1's, etc.

But I'm no expert in that field - just interested observer..

Maybe in 200 years a 996 TT will be collectible - till then $50K now - $150K when new 13 years ago. 997.1's are around 50% of MSRP. 997.2's are cheap and so will 991's in 5-10 years.

I remember people fighting to pay $200K for Ferrari F360's in 2001, now $75K or so. F430's going for $300K, now $130-140K easy. But look at a Dino.

Tacet-Conundrum

The last "Regular" GT3 997.2RS. Clowns were way over-paying for the first few copies of those until everyone realized Porsche wasn't going to hold back on making those cars.

And never, ever if you have the cash say you need to go out and buy a rare car by the weekend, cough cough Superquant! Does he even own that RS anylonger? Wasn't even a year.

mtbscott

Rodsky understands. Mass produced cars can be desirable, collectible is a whole other thing. Without a doubt the 250GTO is the ultimate "modern" collector car, all pundits are pointing to the F1 being the apparent heir to the throne. Name another car that sold for $1M twenty years ago and has now traded hands at $12M+ per copy.
Even at 1200 copies, the Carrera GT is borderline for becoming a $1M+ car. I read an essay written on a collector's site about the future for Ford GT's. They are holding their value well, maybe even rising a bit, but over 3000 were made, and the authors there said that will hold their value down to merely "expensive."
Debating over Porsche Turbo's as collector cars seems silly to me. They are all desirable and will hold their value better than more mundane models, but I wouldn't expect any vintage, even the beloved 993, to ever become an auction record setter.

Carlo_Carrera

You do not have a clue about what you are saying.

I know several people who bought excellent 993TT in the $40k range.

996TT prices have started to rise this past year.

As I wrote none of the "play station" generation gives a rats *** if a car is a manual. They like paddle shift and they are ones that will be buying collector cars in twenty fives years.

There were over a million more C2 and C3 Corvettes made than Porsche models of the same vintage yet Corvettes demand higher prices.

Production numbers mean little. Desirability means everything and Porsche Turbos from all eras are and will be desirable.

Carlo_Carrera

You should take a look at what is going on in the C2 and now the C3 Corvette market.

As for the 996TT. A pristine example's value will climb back up to its is original MSRP in fifteen years and from there go higher.

rodsky

Thats funny. You can buy them for high $30's - albeit with higher miles. But unless the $ devalues dignificantly, there is no chance they hit MSRP in fifteen years.

goofballdeluxe

Ah, I don't have a clue what I'm saying. Yet almost everything you wrote is incorrect, sorry.

You think people bought 993 Turbos in the $40Ks? Nope. Well, I suppose a 200K mile salvaged titled one, but decent 993 Turbos never went in the $40Ks. Sorry. You're wrong there.

996TTs can be had in the $40Ks, and some beaters even in the $30Ks. They might be rising, but all Turbos are. Not close to 993TT prices though. And never will be. High production numbers will ensure that.

C2/C3 prices cannot touch Porsche 356 prices of the same vintage. You're wrong again. A mint 356 Speedster trades higher than a mint C2/C3. The Porsche sold for more than when new, were made in less numbers, are rarer and have always sold for more when used. They still do. You're incorrect yet again.

If you think production numbers mean little, then you're mistaken yet again.

Buddy, you need to educate yourself on these things. You're entitled to your own opinions, but facts are facts. You can find all that I said with a little research on the Web.

Good luck

waiting for PDK

I doubt anything newer than a 996 will be a collectable 30 years from now.

The electronics will simply be a killer. PDCC, PDK, VTG, PCM, PLDS and every other acronym will simply be impossible to fix once the parts are no longer readily available.

We can argue the merits of a Dino, 993, 356, split window 'Vette or '64 Mustang, but they'll always be relatively easily repairable as they're basically mechanical systems, not interelated electrical components.