Has anyone ordered the Carrera S 991 IPD Plenum?
11-28-2014, 08:59 PM
#31
Race Director
It's just interesting that an aluminum plenum is quoted by Porsche as accounting for half of the Powerkit HP on the GTS.
11-28-2014, 10:00 PM
#33
Drifting
Mods made by people who think they can do better than Porsche...
http://www.ipdplenums.com/
Of course, I have no clue what they do, besides voiding the warranty I am sure.
http://www.ipdplenums.com/
Of course, I have no clue what they do, besides voiding the warranty I am sure.
11-29-2014, 04:54 AM
#34
SGT, in re your post and PM: I don't have any experience with the plenum, but will just say, my post from 2012, I stand by every word of it. Which is especially easy now that it seems events have proven me right. To wit:
"Was just wondering, for the sake of argument say, if maybe a lot of us hold the underlying assumption that every motor model Porsche builds is somehow a perfectly optimized example of all that can be done at a given price point- which often seems to be the unspoken assumption- and if maybe that assumption is not so well founded. What I'm getting at is that it very well could also be that Porsche KNOWS it would only take a simple part change to gain 15 hp, BUT that if they did that then it would set ripples in motion that would spread across their entire marketing program where at some point suddenly it becomes VERY EXPENSIVE to keep,say, the GT2 or Turbo S an appropriate number of hp above the model just below.
If this is true it would explain a lot of things. It would explain what Gary just mentioned about an engine being initially overbuilt so as to facilitate future hp gains. They get big economies of scale doing that up front. Then they get big marketing profits by dialing in incremental hp as the years and models go by. Virtually all those gains COULD have been done from the beginning. But that would leave marketing dollars on the table. And, in fairness, they learn a LOT more about reliability taking the incremental approach."
If this is true it would explain a lot of things. It would explain what Gary just mentioned about an engine being initially overbuilt so as to facilitate future hp gains. They get big economies of scale doing that up front. Then they get big marketing profits by dialing in incremental hp as the years and models go by. Virtually all those gains COULD have been done from the beginning. But that would leave marketing dollars on the table. And, in fairness, they learn a LOT more about reliability taking the incremental approach."
11-29-2014, 09:19 AM
#35
Race Director
SGT, in re your post and PM: I don't have any experience with the plenum, but will just say, my post from 2012, I stand by every word of it. Which is especially easy now that it seems events have proven me right. To wit: "Was just wondering, for the sake of argument say, if maybe a lot of us hold the underlying assumption that every motor model Porsche builds is somehow a perfectly optimized example of all that can be done at a given price point- which often seems to be the unspoken assumption- and if maybe that assumption is not so well founded. What I'm getting at is that it very well could also be that Porsche KNOWS it would only take a simple part change to gain 15 hp, BUT that if they did that then it would set ripples in motion that would spread across their entire marketing program where at some point suddenly it becomes VERY EXPENSIVE to keep,say, the GT2 or Turbo S an appropriate number of hp above the model just below. If this is true it would explain a lot of things. It would explain what Gary just mentioned about an engine being initially overbuilt so as to facilitate future hp gains. They get big economies of scale doing that up front. Then they get big marketing profits by dialing in incremental hp as the years and models go by. Virtually all those gains COULD have been done from the beginning. But that would leave marketing dollars on the table. And, in fairness, they learn a LOT more about reliability taking the incremental approach."
11-29-2014, 09:31 AM
#36
Burning Brakes
I've read lots of snake oil about bolt on mods - IPD Plenums included. I called IPD after I read the Flatsixes article linked above.
Their answer about the negatives was "we have a no questions asked return policy"
With Porsche getting $11k + $5-6K dealer install for the Powerkit & lots of the HP increase from the redesigned plenum in the package....I think the X51 is more Porsche tax.
Their answer about the negatives was "we have a no questions asked return policy"
With Porsche getting $11k + $5-6K dealer install for the Powerkit & lots of the HP increase from the redesigned plenum in the package....I think the X51 is more Porsche tax.
11-30-2014, 08:43 AM
#38
All this is interesting however,
Nobody has any dyno information to validate HP or TQ gains from an IPD Plenum.
I still have yet to see an acceleration or dyno comparison (other than Porsche marketing) between a X51 and non X51 to validate a performance increase.
0.1s (per Porsche) is not much of a return.
Nobody has any dyno information to validate HP or TQ gains from an IPD Plenum.
I still have yet to see an acceleration or dyno comparison (other than Porsche marketing) between a X51 and non X51 to validate a performance increase.
0.1s (per Porsche) is not much of a return.
11-30-2014, 09:07 AM
#39
All this is interesting however,
Nobody has any dyno information to validate HP or TQ gains from an IPD Plenum.
I still have yet to see an acceleration or dyno comparison (other than Porsche marketing) between a X51 and non X51 to validate a performance increase.
0.1s (per Porsche) is not much of a return.
Nobody has any dyno information to validate HP or TQ gains from an IPD Plenum.
I still have yet to see an acceleration or dyno comparison (other than Porsche marketing) between a X51 and non X51 to validate a performance increase.
0.1s (per Porsche) is not much of a return.
what is really needed is a small X51 badge to go on the base model to boost owner self esteem.....
11-30-2014, 09:14 AM
#40
Race Director
11-30-2014, 09:15 AM
#41
Race Director
Makes perfect sense. I've never heard anyone effectively dispute the performance aspect. You could argue, is 15HP really that noticeable?? Maybe in addition to a GIAC tune which could put you close to an additional 30HP total?
From the Suncoast Parts Website:
IPD Plenum
Carrera 991 The 911 (991 generation)
Power output is controlled to meet a "performance target" that satisfies the masses and not the dedicated Porsche driving enthusiasts. IPD is here to scratch that proverbial performance itch for those Porsche drivers looking to elevate the already visceral Porsche driving experience to the next level. The engine in the new 991 remains relatively unchanged from the previous 997.2 Carrera. The 991 Carrera continues to employs the 82mm throttle body just like the Carrera before it. This means there is no "Competition Plenum" available since the 82mm TB is still the largest TB available from Porsche. Performance gains remain at 15+ horsepower and 14+ foot pounds at the wheels. As with most IPD Plenums, the bulk of the power gains are realized in the mid-range where they are most used and enjoyed. Unlike other mods, the IPD Plenums deliver net power gains across the entire rev range. The all new specifically designed IPD 991 Carrera intake Plenums are a direct bolt-on upgrade that replaces the factory air intake distributor and utilizes all pre-existing factory hardware and throttle body. The improved IPD intake design allows for smoother, less turbulent and more efficient air flow resulting in impressive power and torque gains for Porsche driving enthusiasts. The superior design of the DFI IPD Plenum provides an additional 14-15 horsepower at the wheels. Unlike previous naturally aspirated IPD plenums that delivered stronger gains in the mid range, the new IPD DFI Plenums deliver a similar shaped power curve as the factory but are considerably stronger from the mid range to redline without any loses in power down low. Installation time is about 4-5 hours and should only be performed by a qualified Porsche technician. Feel free to give us a call with any questions, concerns or place an order. Not a factory part, made by IPD. Fits the new generation (991), 2013 or newer Carrera, Carrera S, Carrera 4, or Carrera 4S models.
From the Suncoast Parts Website:
IPD Plenum
Carrera 991 The 911 (991 generation)
Power output is controlled to meet a "performance target" that satisfies the masses and not the dedicated Porsche driving enthusiasts. IPD is here to scratch that proverbial performance itch for those Porsche drivers looking to elevate the already visceral Porsche driving experience to the next level. The engine in the new 991 remains relatively unchanged from the previous 997.2 Carrera. The 991 Carrera continues to employs the 82mm throttle body just like the Carrera before it. This means there is no "Competition Plenum" available since the 82mm TB is still the largest TB available from Porsche. Performance gains remain at 15+ horsepower and 14+ foot pounds at the wheels. As with most IPD Plenums, the bulk of the power gains are realized in the mid-range where they are most used and enjoyed. Unlike other mods, the IPD Plenums deliver net power gains across the entire rev range. The all new specifically designed IPD 991 Carrera intake Plenums are a direct bolt-on upgrade that replaces the factory air intake distributor and utilizes all pre-existing factory hardware and throttle body. The improved IPD intake design allows for smoother, less turbulent and more efficient air flow resulting in impressive power and torque gains for Porsche driving enthusiasts. The superior design of the DFI IPD Plenum provides an additional 14-15 horsepower at the wheels. Unlike previous naturally aspirated IPD plenums that delivered stronger gains in the mid range, the new IPD DFI Plenums deliver a similar shaped power curve as the factory but are considerably stronger from the mid range to redline without any loses in power down low. Installation time is about 4-5 hours and should only be performed by a qualified Porsche technician. Feel free to give us a call with any questions, concerns or place an order. Not a factory part, made by IPD. Fits the new generation (991), 2013 or newer Carrera, Carrera S, Carrera 4, or Carrera 4S models.
11-30-2014, 12:38 PM
#42
Drifting
If you are planning on modding your 911 it is just another item you can add... unless you add the power kit none of the available options will give you much gain. Software is probably the best bang for your buck but the price is obviously borderline ridiculous (although everything is relative when looking at mods for a 911). IPD is proven to give you gains in the turbo models (plenum and y-pipe), and the cost is relatively low. If it has a placebo effect and the buyer is happy it's money well spent, for the skeptic - probably not. In the end it comes down to what is justified for what gain. There isn't a formula out there that applies to all.
And then there is always the debate of 'why do you need more power?' or 'Porsche knows better'.. etc... Again, everybody has to answer this for themselves, but in regards to the dumb comment about 'Porsche knows better'; Yes, that is partially true, but they also have to factor in cost, regulations (emissions, mpg's, etc..) and overall segment strategy. A tuner has no such restrictions and can pick one item out of the catalogue of possibilities and improve it without answering to Porsche accounting. So that's why you have exhausts, headers, coil-overs, etc... because they target a tiny group that wants the car to be louder, stiffer, or sharper.
And then there is always the debate of 'why do you need more power?' or 'Porsche knows better'.. etc... Again, everybody has to answer this for themselves, but in regards to the dumb comment about 'Porsche knows better'; Yes, that is partially true, but they also have to factor in cost, regulations (emissions, mpg's, etc..) and overall segment strategy. A tuner has no such restrictions and can pick one item out of the catalogue of possibilities and improve it without answering to Porsche accounting. So that's why you have exhausts, headers, coil-overs, etc... because they target a tiny group that wants the car to be louder, stiffer, or sharper.
12-01-2014, 01:39 PM
#43
How come people are saying there is a 15HP gain from the IPD Plenum, on a 991, when there is zero proof to support that claim?
Last I checked, IPD referred 991 people to a 997.2 Dyno Plot.
I caution people that a mod like this could drop power at low RPM and add very little (if any) at high RPM.
That would make people feel like it is faster when they feel the delayed onset of power at high RPM.
However, if it did the opposite and added low end torque, I would be highly interested in one.
There is just no credible data out there to validate that it does anything beneficial.
If someone is a pioneer, and willing to experiment, then why not install the X51 Plenum?
Last I checked, IPD referred 991 people to a 997.2 Dyno Plot.
I caution people that a mod like this could drop power at low RPM and add very little (if any) at high RPM.
That would make people feel like it is faster when they feel the delayed onset of power at high RPM.
However, if it did the opposite and added low end torque, I would be highly interested in one.
There is just no credible data out there to validate that it does anything beneficial.
If someone is a pioneer, and willing to experiment, then why not install the X51 Plenum?
12-01-2014, 02:39 PM
#44
Drifting
How come people are saying there is a 15HP gain from the IPD Plenum, on a 991, when there is zero proof to support that claim?
Last I checked, IPD referred 991 people to a 997.2 Dyno Plot.
I caution people that a mod like this could drop power at low RPM and add very little (if any) at high RPM.
That would make people feel like it is faster when they feel the delayed onset of power at high RPM.
However, if it did the opposite and added low end torque, I would be highly interested in one.
There is just no credible data out there to validate that it does anything beneficial.
If someone is a pioneer, and willing to experiment, then why not install the X51 Plenum?
Last I checked, IPD referred 991 people to a 997.2 Dyno Plot.
I caution people that a mod like this could drop power at low RPM and add very little (if any) at high RPM.
That would make people feel like it is faster when they feel the delayed onset of power at high RPM.
However, if it did the opposite and added low end torque, I would be highly interested in one.
There is just no credible data out there to validate that it does anything beneficial.
If someone is a pioneer, and willing to experiment, then why not install the X51 Plenum?
12-02-2014, 01:26 AM
#45
Three Wheelin'
As TP already mentioned fuel consumption & emission figures are as important (& perhaps mandatory) as performance figures for Porsche - there is also longitivtiy & warranty at play too. An after market performance tuner does not have the same constraints as their primary aim would be ultimate performance but of course not everyone gets its right everytime as they are walking unchartered territory and they do not have Porsche's budget to test.